Wright writes.....

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, D-A-T said:

 

It took me decades to discover the magic of Shakespeare.

Sadly the same can not be said for Jane Austen!

 

There is considerable evidence that Jane Austen was introduced to the magic of Shakespeare at an early age through participation in home performances led by her brothers. (But that may not be quite what you meant!)

 

Looking through the list of Britannia class locomotives, I note that 29 were named after men (not counting mythological figures), of whom eleven were noted authors. Only one was named after a non-mythological woman, and she not an author. I move that 70047 be retrospectively named Jane Austen.

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Compound2632

[APOLLO]

Why was 70047 never named ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BR_'Britannia'_Class_locomotives

 

Brit15

Edited March 23, 2020 by APOLLO
list added

[Headstock]

Puppet names for locomotives, brilliant idea. Bagpus and Miss Piggy sound like A3s to me, Emu sounds right for a B1 and of course Zippy for an A4.

[mullie]

Animal for a P2?

[Tony Wright]

39 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

There is considerable evidence that Jane Austen was introduced to the magic of Shakespeare at an early age through participation in home performances led by her brothers. (But that may not be quite what you meant!)

 

Looking through the list of Britannia class locomotives, I note that 29 were named after men (not counting mythological figures), of whom eleven were noted authors. Only one was named after a non-mythological woman, and she not an author. I move that 70047 be retrospectively named Jane Austen.

 

 

An interesting analysis; many thanks.

 

BRITANNIA (70000) was the 'Roman name for Britain, now used for the female figure representing Britain as an emblem on coins, medals and the like'. 

 

ARIEL (70016) was 'an airy, mischievous spirit in Shakespeare's The Tempest', presumably female? 

 

VENUS (70023) was the 'Roman Goddess of Love' (as well as one of the planets).

 

BOADICEA (70036) was the 'Queen of Iceni, who lead a revolt against the Romans in 60AD'. 

 

Not very 'balanced', but typical of the times. 

 

Source: The Locomotive Names of British Railways Their Origins and Meanings by Ted Talbot, Halcyon Books 1982. An invaluable source of reference. 

 

Looking back, it's astonishing how much I learnt from the names of British locomotives (both steam and diesel): history, geography, literature, mythology, warships, great figures from the past (and present at the time), equine speedsters, ornithology, the military, great houses, astronomy, monarchs and so much more. I used to pore over my Ian Allan abcs, searching out what the names meant in text books at school. I've mentioned this before, but I learnt what 'tautology' meant when I asked my English teacher 'Why wasn't 1011 named COUNTY OF CHESHIRE, sir?'. 'Tautology, Wright, tautology' said Mr. Crump.  That didn't stop those ignorant of the fact naming some of the 47s later on COUNTY OF CAMBRIDGESHIRE and the like! Ted Talbot says of it 'later in the year (1979) five other members of Class 47/1 allocated to the Great Eastern section were given names served by that part of the Eastern Region. There has been some correspondence in the enthusiast press pointing out that in the case of two of the names, County of Hertfordshire and County of Cambridgeshire, BR is guilty of tautology (that is saying the same thing twice): that because 'shire' means 'county', the names should either be County of Hertford and County of Cambridge, or Hertfordshire and Cambridgeshire. Despite the faultless logic of the argument, the nameplates remain unaltered'. 

 

I wonder, in years to come, whether schoolboys will investigate what the Thunderbirds' names meant? I doubt it. In fact I doubt if we'll ever have such great names as those listed in the book just mentioned bestowed on rolling locos/rolling stock ever again.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[Compound2632]

Now, if only you'd been born a generation earlier, you'd have been making yourself familiar with the works of Sir Walter Scott!

 

As a pre-Grouping enthusiast, I have John Goodman's prequel to Ted Talbot's book, LNWR Locomotive Names (RCTS, 2002) - Crewe's variety of reference is mind-boggling: as we were discussing locomotives named after women, from Sister Dora to Virago.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Compound2632

[Tony Wright]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Now, if only you'd been born a generation earlier, you'd have been making yourself familiar with the works of Sir Walter Scott!

 

As a pre-Grouping enthusiast, I have John Goodman's prequel to Ted Talbot's book, LNWR Locomotive Names (RCTS, 2002) - Crewe's variety of reference is mind-boggling: as we were discussing locomotives named after women, from Sister Dora to Virago.

Thanks Stephen,

 

I was editing my post as you replied.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[ecgtheow]

1 hour ago, D-A-T said:

If I might interrupt, if you want an “easy” access point to poetry may I recommend Richard Burton’s version of Dylan Thomas’ “Under Milkwood”. It is magical and was described as a “play for voices”. A halfway house between a play and poetry. The fact it is risqué in places helps!

 

Having raised the issue of what is risqué while others are remembering characters from childhood TV series it's surprising that nobody has yet mentioned the names of Captain Pugwash's subordinates. Imagine locos called "Master Bates" or "Seaman Stains"!

 

William

[Compound2632]

Both Great Western County classes, 38xx and 10xx, were consistently named County of ...* omitting the shire - though as a resident of Reading I do think just plain Berkshire would have been preferable to County of Berks (used in both classes). 

 

*Excepting the ten 38xxs named after Irish counties: County Carlow etc.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Compound2632

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Picture Book – Mondays, 

Ah, with the sausage dog!

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, D-A-T said:

If I might interrupt, if you want an “easy” access point to poetry may I recommend Richard Burton’s version of Dylan Thomas’ “Under Milkwood”. It is magical and was described as a “play for voices”. A halfway house between a play and poetry. The fact it is risqué in places helps!

...and if you close your eyes you can imagine looking at Dave Rowe's layout while you listen.

[St Enodoc]

41 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

An interesting analysis; many thanks.

 

BRITANNIA (70000) was the 'Roman name for Britain, now used for the female figure representing Britain as an emblem on coins, medals and the like'. 

 

ARIEL (70016) was 'an airy, mischievous spirit in Shakespeare's The Tempest', presumably female? 

 

VENUS (70023) was the 'Roman Goddess of Love' (as well as one of the planets).

 

BOADICEA (70036) was the 'Queen of Iceni, who lead a revolt against the Romans in 60AD'. 

 

Not very 'balanced', but typical of the times. 

 

Source: The Locomotive Names of British Railways Their Origins and Meanings by Ted Talbot, Halcyon Books 1982. An invaluable source of reference. 

 

Looking back, it's astonishing how much I learnt from the names of British locomotives (both steam and diesel): history, geography, literature, mythology, warships, great figures from the past (and present at the time), equine speedsters, ornithology, the military, great houses, astronomy, monarchs and so much more. I used to pore over my Ian Allan abcs, searching out what the names meant in text books at school. I've mentioned this before, but I learnt what 'tautology' meant when I asked my English teacher 'Why wasn't 1011 named COUNTY OF CHESHIRE, sir?'. 'Tautology, Wright, tautology' said Mr. Crump.  That didn't stop those ignorant of the fact naming some of the 47s later on COUNTY OF CAMBRIDGESHIRE and the like! Ted Talbot says of it 'later in the year (1979) five other members of Class 47/1 allocated to the Great Eastern section were given names served by that part of the Eastern Region. There has been some correspondence in the enthusiast press pointing out that in the case of two of the names, County of Hertfordshire and County of Cambridgeshire, BR is guilty of tautology (that is saying the same thing twice): that because 'shire' means 'county', the names should either be County of Hertford and County of Cambridge, or Hertfordshire and Cambridgeshire. Despite the faultless logic of the argument, the nameplates remain unaltered'. 

 

I wonder, in years to come, whether schoolboys will investigate what the Thunderbirds' names meant? I doubt it. In fact I doubt if we'll ever have such great names as those listed in the book just mentioned bestowed on rolling locos/rolling stock ever again.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I always have to suppress a chuckle when I see "County of Berks".

[MJI]

1 hour ago, ecgtheow said:

 

Having raised the issue of what is risqué while others are remembering characters from childhood TV series it's surprising that nobody has yet mentioned the names of Captain Pugwash's subordinates. Imagine locos called "Master Bates" or "Seaman Stains"!

 

William

 

Master Mate

 

Barnabas or Willy

 

Tom the Cabin Boy?

[D-A-T]

1 hour ago, ecgtheow said:

 

Having raised the issue of what is risqué while others are remembering characters from childhood TV series it's surprising that nobody has yet mentioned the names of Captain Pugwash's subordinates. Imagine locos called "Master Bates" or "Seaman Stains"!

 

William

 

Be careful!

 

Libel case regarding double entendres

There is a persistent urban legend, repeated by the now defunct UK newspaper the Sunday Correspondent, that ascribes sexually suggestive names – such as Master Bates, Seaman Staines, and Roger (meaning "have sex with") the Cabin Boy – to Captain Pugwash's characters, and indicating that the captain's name was a slang Australian term for . The origin of this myth is likely due to student rag mags from the 1970s.

 

John Ryan successfully sued both the Sunday Correspondent and The Guardian newspapers in 1991 for printing this legend as fact.

Edited March 23, 2020 by D-A-T

[jacko]

3 minutes ago, D-A-T said:

 

Be careful!

 

Libel case regarding double entendres

There is a persistent urban legend, repeated by the now defunct UK newspaper the Sunday Correspondent, that ascribes sexually suggestive names – such as Master Bates, Seaman Staines, and Roger (meaning "have sex with") the Cabin Boy – to Captain Pugwash's characters, and indicating that the captain's name was a slang Australian term for . The origin of this myth is likely due to student rag mags from the 1970s.

 

John Ryan successfully sued both the Sunday Correspondent and The Guardian newspapers in 1991 for printing this legend as fact.

Beat me to it.

[ecgtheow]

I think that in libel & slander cases the truth wins out & there were those characters, but I doubt any railway company would dare to name locos with their names either then or now for rather obvious reasons. Anyway I preferred "The Magic Roundabout", but then I suppose I am a sort of latter-day existentialist.

 

William

[t-b-g]

13 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I doubt very much if anyone nowadays would name a loco 'Gay Crusader'.

 

I am not so sure. In our modern times when the term "diversity" plays such a big part in our culture.

 

 

[CUTLER2579]

Well what about this for the name of a famous racehorse "Quare Times" winner of the 1955 Grand National.

Sounds a bit naughty when said quickly as in a race commentary.

Quare is an adjective Irish dialect, meaning  remarkable or strangea quare fellow.

 

[Tony Wright]

Nothing to do with names for locos (at least in part), but I hope of some little interest. 

 

I'm reviewing a book for the next BRM, and I'm puzzled at the 'ignorance' of the author. I won't mention the title or the author, because I'm not sure whether to carry on reviewing it or not. One does not want to be just a hatchet man!

 

There is no way that I can read every word in every book I review, but I employ the tactic of first reading the captions to the pictures, checking for accuracy. If I find mistakes, then I become suspicious and read further.

 

Regarding the book in question, the author is a 'baby-boomer', like me, but he cites Ian 'Allen' as the provider of all those wonderful abcs post-War. Surely someone born in the '40s must know it's 'Allan'. And, as a Mancunian, surely he must know that the U1 is a 'Garratt', not something inhabited by starving artists! Since when has a J69 been 'ex-GNR'?

 

The differences between an EM1 and an EM2 should be easy for anyone to tell them, surely? And, how many of the latter carried their names in BR black? 

 

And, as for an A3 without superheater header covers, I don't know (it's an A1).

 

There are more......

 

I know everything I've ever written has a blooper in it somewhere, usually due to my carelessness, but I've never written anything which costs £30.00. It's a pity, because it's fascinating subject matter and of particular interest to me - I've been standing at many of the locations in the book as a trainspotter myself!

 

I'm not sure how to carry on....... 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Tony Wright
tautology!

[Tony Wright]

16 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

Well what about this for the name of a famous racehorse "Quare Times" winner of the 1955 Grand National.

Sounds a bit naughty when said quickly as in a race commentary.

Quare is an adjective Irish dialect, meaning  remarkable or strangea quare fellow.

 

But it's a 'jumper' Derek,

 

Locos were named after winners on the flat (though was one latterly called RED RUM?).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Which leads me to ponder if the 'Elizabethan' were running today, how would the rake be configured?

 

One third of the single FK was set aside for 'Ladies Only'.

 

What about the rest?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

[ecgtheow]

16 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Nothing to do with names for locos (at least in part), but I hope of some little interest. 

 

I'm reviewing a book for the next BRM, and I'm puzzled at the 'ignorance' of the author. I won't mention the title or the author, because I'm not sure whether to carry on reviewing it or not. One does not want to be just a hatchet man!

 

There is no way that I can read every word in every book I review, but I employ the tactic of first reading the captions to the pictures, checking for accuracy. If I find mistakes, then I become suspicious and read further.

 

Regarding the book in question, the author is a 'baby-boomer', like me, but he cites Ian 'Allen' as the provider of all those wonderful abcs post-War. Surely someone born in the '40s must know it's 'Allan'. And, as a Mancunian, surely he must know that the U1 is a 'Garratt', not something inhabited by starving artists! Since when has a J69 been 'ex-GNR'?

 

The differences between an EM1 and an EM2 should be easy for anyone to tell the difference, surely? And, how many of the latter carried their names in BR black? 

 

And, as for an A3 without superheater header covers, I don't know (it's an A1).

 

There are more......

 

I know everything I've ever written has a blooper in it somewhere, usually due to my carelessness, but I've never written anything which costs £30.00. It's a pity, because it's fascinating subject matter and of particular interest to me - I've been standing at many of the locations in the book as a trainspotter myself!

 

I'm not sure how to carry on....... 

Send the book back Tony & suggest that BRM doesn't review because thee are so many errors. If you write a truthful review, there will be trouble!

 

William

[john new]

48 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Nothing to do with names for locos (at least in part), but I hope of some little interest. 

 

I'm reviewing a book for the next BRM, and I'm puzzled at the 'ignorance' of the author. I won't mention the title or the author, because I'm not sure whether to carry on reviewing it or not. One does not want to be just a hatchet man!

 

There is no way that I can read every word in every book I review, but I employ the tactic of first reading the captions to the pictures, checking for accuracy. If I find mistakes, then I become suspicious and read further.

 

Regarding the book in question, the author is a 'baby-boomer', like me, but he cites Ian 'Allen' as the provider of all those wonderful abcs post-War. Surely someone born in the '40s must know it's 'Allan'. And, as a Mancunian, surely he must know that the U1 is a 'Garratt', not something inhabited by starving artists! Since when has a J69 been 'ex-GNR'?

 

The differences between an EM1 and an EM2 should be easy for anyone to tell the difference, surely? And, how many of the latter carried their names in BR black? 

 

And, as for an A3 without superheater header covers, I don't know (it's an A1).

 

There are more......

 

I know everything I've ever written has a blooper in it somewhere, usually due to my carelessness, but I've never written anything which costs £30.00. It's a pity, because it's fascinating subject matter and of particular interest to me - I've been standing at many of the locations in the book as a trainspotter myself!

 

I'm not sure how to carry on....... 

 

Reviewing books for the SLS Journal I have had the same quandary several times, although usually my trigger has been abysmal reproduction quality not the textual content, I think you just have to bite the bullet and say that the captions (and body text?) needed far better proof reading and more research but the photos themselves are ???? (insert good, bad, indifferent) as fits.

[Buhar]

Hi Tony, 

A thought came to me....  Do you adjust the coal load in the tenders according to where the loco originated? An up service where the loco was attached at Grantham would still be quite full, but surely the up Elizabethan would be down on coal quite a bit. 

Alan 

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 

The differences between an EM1 and an EM2 should be easy for anyone to tell the difference, surely? And, how many of the latter carried their names in BR black? 

 

 

Tommy did.