Wright writes.....

[Theakerr]

In some ways i am finding that the advent of superior RTR models is actually spurring my interest in kit building, detailing, improving my skills to match the improved quality of the RTR and other methods of adding uniqueness.  For example, i have just purchased a set of coal hoppers to run behind my soon to arrive Hornby 01.  As received they were much of a muchness.  So all have been re-weathered, the underframes "blacked" to represent coal dust, the wheels painted, new coal added, etc.  Now pretty well every hopper is different.  As high quality RTR models that were specific to where i am modelling have arrived I have become much more  interested in getting my layout to be more typical rather than generally representative.  Hence I have started building single bolster wagons and will soon start on a proper LNER bogie  bolster wagon.  Also, my generic card model based station is soon to be replaced by a model that is much more representative of a real station.  

[Mallard60022]

Tony, superb pictures. Thank you so much for your inspiration, both here and in 'advising/supporting' others (e.g. Great Northern). You have even praised me in the past and I take that as high praise indeed - many thanks.

All the very best for 2013 and hope to get to meet you again sometime soon either in the 'real world', or on here in my/the parallel universe, for some jolly banter and informative discussion.

Phil @ 36E

[coachmann]

Your modelling is an inspiration, not to mention rather humbling. Whenever your pictures popped up on my radar screen it was accompanied by tinnitus until I realised it was a little voice in my ear telling me I must try harder!

 

Good Health & Happiness throughout the New Year Tony

Edited January 1, 2013 by coachmann

[MJI]

Nice models, I don't think I could ever be as good.

 

BTW my favourite ECML machines are a certain English Electric CoCo

[Andy Y]

Returning to the theme of 'never had it so good' and the speculation/comments on Hornby's latest proposals, perhaps a few more thoughts might help. I note someone has referred to a 'dictatorship' where anyone who is happy enough with a model straight out of the box is derided as not being a modeller. Surely, anyone who's interested enough in model railways to build a layout is, by definition, a railway modeller, even if all his/her stock is straight out of the box. Perhaps, if all the purchaser does is keep his/her models in their original boxes or just displays them in cabinets then he/she is more of a collector than a modeller. Maybe, some folk think that there's an element of elitism amongst those who actually 'make' models, as opposed to those who only buy them. I'm certainly not going to express criticism of anyone's joy in owning a brilliant new model, and no one has the right to dictate how one gets pleasure from purchases. Certainly, more and more highly-skilled modellers are becoming buyers of RTR equipment, now that it's so good, and they can express joy in their latest acquisitions, too. A the very least it'll save them time, though they'll almost certainly 'improve' it in some way. As observers, I think we like to see something that's been made/modified/altered/improved or what have you, rather than witness someone's skills at opening a box, especially if we've paid money to see it at an exhibition or in a magazine. Something where actual 'modelling' is required. Whether this smacks of my 'elitism', I don't know, but I'll reiterate what I've said many times in the past regarding the latest RTR offerings, particularly in OO. Instead of just speculating and 'moaning' about what Hornby (or Bachmann) are doing or going to do, why not give some praise instead for the excellence now being presented to you. OK, for whatever reasons, some of it might not be dead right, but, in real terms, it's still outstanding value for money compared with the 'dross' that was presented only a little while ago. So, if it's not quite right, make it right/improve/detail/modify it or whatever. You might even then qualify as a 'modeller' in some folk's eyes. If you can't, then get someone to do it for you. If you can't afford it, then you'll have to go without. And, where is it enshrined that we're entitled to perfection at a very moderate cost? I accept how politically incorrect my statements are but I'll reiterate: at last, we've now got RTR locomotives the equal or better than kit-built locos of just a little while ago at a fraction of the cost. Without doubt, we now have egalitarian standards! Where's the 'dictatorship' in that?

 

I realise that some of what I've said could be construed as contradictory, and I agree to some extent. Praising the current RTR stuff in one breath and then suggesting that a little bit of actual modelling might be required, just to make it more personal or better. However, I admit to being a bit of a hypocrite; perhaps even a mischief-maker.

 

To finally make my point about how egalitarian railway modelling has become, I've included pictures of several chassis conversions on various locomotives to improve their running. Previously, these had tender-drive or split-chassis abominations - noisy, jerky, impossible to get to run smoothly/slowly, etc. But, and this is my main observation, just a little while ago that's all you got with these locomotives, and they weren't cheap. I can imagine the 'delight' at the purchasers of these original locos as they plonked them on their layouts and watched them waddle and jerk along. Now, apart from the Dean Goods, all these locos are now available (or soon will be) with superbly-engineered, smooth-running chassis at source. In the past, a solution was only possible by making (or having someone else make) a replacement chassis - such as these illustrated. Today, all you have to do is open the box, stick the loco on the track and watch it run beautifully. Any 'modeller' can do it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of these conversions will feature in BRM in the not too distant future, including a few minutes' worth of moving footage on Model Railways Live. The replacement chassis are from Comet or South Eastern Finecast, the motor/gearbox combinations from DJH, Comet or Markits and the wheels are from Markits. I might add that all these conversions cost a lot more than what's available now, not to mention the time imperative in making them; and they only run as well as the current RTR ones. So instead of just 'demanding' rights, please spare a thought for our beleaguered kits and bits manufacturers and realise just how good things really are.

 

 

 

 

 

My apologies to all those I've offended.

[Andy Y]

Your modelling is an inspiration, not to mention rather humbling. Whenever your pictures popped up on my radar screen it was accompanied by tinnitus until I realised it was a little voice in my ear telling me I must try harder!

 

Good Health & Happiness throughout the New Year Tony

Would you thank Larry Goddard for his kind comments. He needs learn nothing from me. I've enclosed a couple of pictures of Derek Lawrence coaches he painted in the late '80s. Though the paintwork is exquisite, the vehicles are a little lacking in surface detail. Still, on a layout in a train they're very acceptable.

 

 

BTW my favourite ECML machines are a certain English Electric CoCo

The chap who preferred English Electric Co-Cos might be interested in the enclosed pictures.

 

 

 

 

 

With the exception of the prototype 'Deltic' (which picture has appeared in BRM this month), all the production 'Deltics' are modified/detailed/renumbered/renamed/weathered Bachmann products. Strictly speaking, since the station at Little Bytham was demolished by the autumn of 1959 no production 'Deltics' should be apparent, and the tall, co-acting signals were also removed before the EE Type 5 fleet arrived. However, I think they look the part. Their real role was on Stoke Summit in diesel days, and there are at least half a dozen more.

[davidw]

Tony, Very many thanks for all the inspiration over the years. A while back you did a DVD on Little Bytham, any chance of a further update?

Edited January 2, 2013 by davidw

[micklner]

Seconded re DVD. More Thompsons would be good !!!

Edited January 2, 2013 by micklner

[westerner]

Whilst not a chassis replacer, I do concur with Tony's argument, even I have weathered and changed numbers on locos, added lamp irons where they were missing and Tony will be pleased to hear added lamps and tried to get the an approbriate. headcode on my hydraulics.

 

Cna I second the idea of another DVD on Little Bytham.

[coachmann]

Thanks Tony and to Andy for passing on Tony's message. Those coaches are going back into the sounds of the nation alright. It is good to see the car paint still looks tidy.

 

Back in the early 1970s niether Derek Lawrence nor I knew what things would lead to (flippin tedious work at times!) 

Edited January 2, 2013 by coachmann

[MJI]

Going to have a nose through the magazine now!!!!

[JeffP]

Great stuff. I recognied 36C Frodingham in one of the pictures too.

[marc smith]

 

Returning to the theme of 'never had it so good' and the speculation/comments on Hornby's latest proposals, perhaps a few more thoughts might help. I note someone has referred to a 'dictatorship' where anyone who is happy enough with a model straight out of the box is derided as not being a modeller. Surely, anyone who's interested enough in model railways to build a layout is, by definition, a railway modeller, even if all his/her stock is straight out of the box. Perhaps, if all the purchaser does is keep his/her models in their original boxes or just displays them in cabinets then he/she is more of a collector than a modeller. Maybe, some folk think that there's an element of elitism amongst those who actually 'make' models, as opposed to those who only buy them. I'm certainly not going to express criticism of anyone's joy in owning a brilliant new model, and no one has the right to dictate how one gets pleasure from purchases......

 

.....My apologies to all those I've offended.

 

In a nutshell!

Yes, we have never had it so good....

And whether you want to improve out-of-the-box models, or build from kits..... fine

Whether you just want to "plonk" your new R-T-R model onto your layout,

you are still, by definition, a railway modeller

 

As Tony says; If the RTR model stays in the box,

perhaps you are then a collector?

 

The strength of this hobby is that we all like to undertake the myriad of different tasks that encompass the hobby

"Creativity" is a multi-faceted thing, and we all draw enjoyment in many different ways....

I'm glad that RTR models are improving

That will, in turn improve my own modelling - for certain

 

Smashing stuff Mr Wright - highly inspirational

Please keep in touch, and I'm sure we would all like to wish you well for 2013

 

Thanks for posting Andy!

 

Cheers

Marc

 

EDIT: Dictatorship? I dictate that you should enjoy the hobby,

and concentrate on that, rather than suggesting someone else is a dictator

 

Edited January 3, 2013 by marc smith

[Barry O]

More good stuff from Tony - and its his train set so he can run production Deltics!

 

Hope to see Tony out and about soon!

[robmcg]

A very enjoyable thread, thankyou Andy, Tony, and others.

 

All the best for the year from a warm NZ.

 

Rob

[Markeg]

Thanks Andy for posting Tony's photos and to Tony for allowing us the privilege of seeing his masterpeices in action on a masterpeice of a Layout.  They are truly inspirational for a LNER/ECML modeller.

 

Wishing You and Tony both a great New Year and plenty more modelling inspiriation to come.

 

I like the engineers shed by Pacific models too.

 

Mark in OZ

[69843]

Thanks Andy for posting Tony's photos and to Tony for allowing us the privilege of seeing his masterpeices in action on a masterpeice of a Layout.  They are truly inspirational for a LNER/ECML modeller.

 Couldn't have put that better myself Mark. The beautify constructed A2s and O2 running alongside Deltic and the production 55s-pure poetry in motion! Well done Tony.

[rcmacchipilot]

First of all, I also would love to voice my interest in another special on little bytham. I really enjoyed the last dvd. 

 

On the note of kits, I would like to point out that whilst there are so many fantastic RTR models out there, there is still an element of enjoyment in building the locomotive yourself so there will always be a level of demand for the kit manufacturers. ( Not to mention, nothing beats a well detailed white metal kit for weight, and you cant dip a plastic model in a bucket of acetone to help develop your painting). On the other side of the coin, I think it is fantastic to see such great RTR coming out (Especially with the beautiful detailed cabs). At the end of the day, the person still has to make a base board, or lay some track, come up with a track plan etc. How is that different from putting together an airfix kit. I dont think that the use of RTR detracts from modeling at all, Indeed it can free up time for people to focus on other aspects that they enjoy. Frankly I would like to congratulate Tony on what I believe is a very level headed and well thought out statement, which I believe advocates the positive aspects of railway modelling very well. 

 

Owen

[Andy Y]

Might I add my personal congratulations to Gilbert Barnatt for having reached a milestone with regard to his ever-popular Peterborough North thread? A quarter of a million views, I believe.

 

The progress made over the last two and a half years has been remarkable and inspirational. A picture of Peterborough north appears in the current issue of BRM in an article of mine, citing the contributions made by the many people who've been involved with the project (names he's already mentioned in his thread). Though I praise Gilbert in BRM for having the vision to carry the project through, perhaps I should also have mentioned his work in the planning and bringing the operating timetable up to speed. Work nor seen in any of the posts, but a testament to hours and hours of diligent toil cross-referencing BR's own working TTs to make a workable sequence. All on the computer! And, his research in making sure the correct locos and trains are present. He's also certainly going to be busy putting the detail finishing touches together, all by himself.

 

I've included a couple of pictures of one of my locos 'guesting' on Peterborough north last summer. There's a lot more been done since these pictures were taken.

 

 

 

I look forward to the next 250,000!

I've also included a couple of shots of Hornby's latest O1, of which I'll be writing a full review to appear in the next issue of BRM.

 

 

[coachmann]

I presume the lower image is a standard Hornby weathered jobby. I actually like these, as athough the body weathering is as would hit a diesel, I can easily alter it but the weathered chassis does save a lot of messing about.

[Barry O]

I presume the lower image is a standard Hornby weathered jobby. I actually like these, as athough the body weathering is as would hit a diesel, I can easily alter it but the weathered chassis does save a lot of messing about.

just wished they realised that chassis weathering isn't always a coat of brown spray!

[coachmann]

How true Barry. I just find it a decent base to work on afterwards. Hornby's paint doesn't seem to rub off motion so thats another plus. Hornby would be better off using mid to dark grey with a hint of brown rather than rusty brown spray on its steam outline models.

Edited January 14, 2013 by coachmann

[Andy Y]

Following on from Tony's article on Prototype Railway Modelling in this month's BRM which, as I've said to Tony, is Tony at his thought-provoking best and provocative worst wiggling a stick in a wasps' nest I tackled some of the thoughts on using lamps on model; it's well worth a read.
 
 

I don't buy into this terminus-to-fiddle yard or terminus-to-terminus business precluding the use of lamps (or discs) on steam locos. I've included pictures taken on Bangor, a vast O gauge system stretching between two main termini and a third branch terminus, operating by proper signalling, etc. Bangor station is the main through one - going north west you reach a terminus (Holyhead) and going south east you reach a WR terminus (Broad Street). Halfway to Bangor one can branch off to a minor GWR terminus. Yes, the orientation is wrong as is the geography, but that's not the main point. Every train carries the correct headlamp code. The operators accept that they can't change lamps under platform awnings, but once a loco is released and moves out into 'the open', the lamps are changed as appropriate, and the loco is turned/goes on shed, etc, ready for its next duty. Obviously, diligence is required at all times and I'd never say categorically that every movement is absolutely correctly 'lamped' (that's down to individual operators) but in the main the principle is adhered to. Thus, if a loco's last duty is, say, a Class A job and it's next is a Class B, then the lamps are changed. Light engines carry the correct code, too. The lamps have a hole drilled in their bases which is then plugged with Blu-Tac. They're then fixed onto the locos' lamp irons, though one has to be careful no Blu-Tac oozes out. Appropriate regional lamps are carried. 












           
Whether I would place Bangor high on my list of prototype-location layouts is a moot point, though the station itself (and Broad Street are superbly, and accurately modelled. Pragmatism is at hand to accommodate the various locos/rolling stock owned by the group which runs it.

Tony really is hot on the lamps but I did suggest that every modeller has blind spots they're unaware of or prepared to accept the omission of and the second image, for me as a photographer, is a case in point with the omission of chairs on the pointwork.

Tony would also like to correct one of the images used in this month's magazine:
 
 

Compared to the one in this issue you'll note that this one shows the A2 carrying the correct headlamp code (Photoshop trickery) on John Hope's 'Hitchin'. In fairness, the shot was set up to illustrate the formation at Hitchin to date, but at least it shows my hypocrisy. 

 
 

Further comments on the current issue refer to Haymarket Cross. I know Ian Harper very well (from years of exhibiting at Pickering) but, although the loco conversions are very well done, realism is lost by his retention (in the main) of the hideous tension-lock couplings on the locos, especially the diesels. As far as I know his locos only move around his shed scene, never hauling any revenue-earning trains. Therefore, it is an opportunity missed to fully detail the diesels' bufferbeams (like my 'Deltics' in the previous postings). Steam locos' tenders also display the nasty couplings. The thorny issue of couplings is something I'll be considering as part of my next BRM submission.

With regard to lamps on locos, Ian's gone the opposite way and used them in many cases where they're not necessary. As far as I know, only the last loco (at any one time) in any line-up would/should carry a lamp (a red one, over either buffer), usually at night - see Colin Walker's pictures of Top Shed. Lamps were always carried when a loco went on/off shed, light-engine. Arriving or leaving the shed, whether the loco was running backwards or forwards, a clear gel would be displayed in the centre of the buffer plank in the direction of travel and a red gel over either of the buffers at the other end. Yes, there are prototype images where this requirement is not followed (or couldn't be - an A4 with a corridor tender running tender-first light engine had to display its white gel over one of its buffers), but at least nine locos on shed displaying a myriad of codes from their last/next workings just wouldn't have happened. Look at any shed scenes from steam days. Yes, you'll find a few (I've just looked at a shot of an A1 leaving York shed, in reverse, with its Class A code already in place, and a 'County arriving on Laira with its Class B lamp still in place) where a loco still carries a train-class lamp/lamps on shed but its relatively rare. Since Ian's layout is based (in part) on Top Shed, I've just examined Peter Townend's book on the subject and found that where locos are carrying lamps on shed they've either just arrived or are about to depart, with the appropriate lamps displayed, and they're the first/last locos in a line. There is a publicity shot on page 91 where an A4 is already carrying Class A lamps, but that would be very much the rarity. Looking at pages 18 and 19 in the current issue Ian has four locos showing Class A lamps (five, if you count the EE Type 4's discs) and one showing Class C. Ironically, where the other locos in the scene might be expected to display a single clear or red light, they're missing. However, I do congratulate Ian where he has used the correct lamp arrangements, but the BTH Type 1 is certainly not displaying the correct discs! My advice would be to dispense with lamps altogether, unless you're just going to have single ones on each end. And yes, I can see the critics accusing me of pedantry, but aren't we trying to depict real railway scenes as accurately as possible? I await comments with interest.
 

 
 Ian, in his defence, has mentioned that several locos are used for working coal and spares into the depot but that it's still a long process to carry out all of the modifications.
 

Oh, and I won't mention the derailed locos!

Don't worry Tony, I think I may have got away with it.

[coachmann]

Like scale couplings and lamps are much easier and less fiddley to handle in 7mm scale. Sometime in my distant past the 4mm scale loco lamp route led to handrail wire being used to make lamp irons because my drill would only make round holes. The rest can be guessed.... If a sloppy fit on the loco they turned round! If a tight fit the loco risked being derailed while the hand in the sky attempted to prise lamps loose.

 

I think it can be guaranteed the 'blind spot' Andy refers to remains in us all in varying degrees, probably because we are very good at imagining our locos make noises when they don't and our passengers actually board and alight trains..  Even David Jenkinson, who took a great deal of care to get his locos and coaches correct right down to the nearest year, never weathered his lovely stone buildings or indeed anything. But I for one have not lost sight of the distance we have come in the past 7 years, having consigned polished wheel rims and handrails to history.

Edited January 14, 2013 by coachmann

[Allegheny1600]

Re: lamps & headcodes,

I recall reading in "Diesel Hydraulics in the West" by David Cable, quite a lot of mentions of various diesels running with "Obviously the wrong headcode"!

It is mentioned in other books too but this is the most memorable to me.

Therefore, I suspect that rules were not strictly adhered to if one was somewhat off the beaten track, i.e. away from the mainlines OR

in the latter part of the Sixties, people 'couldn't be bothered'?

I'm certainly not questioning anyone who wants to do it right as that's very commendable, just pointing out that there were occasions in real life where such things have been done wrongly.

Also, I'm sure that in earlier times, rules were observed and obeyed as drivers would no doubt have had pay docked for such offences, the worst that can happen to a modeller is being called out for such!

Cheers!

John E.