East West rail, Bletchley to oxford line

[31A]

27 minutes ago, Trog said:

 

If the radius of that curve was tighter by 1m it would need to be fitted with a check rail. It was deliberately designed as a 201m radius to avoid that. Not using F19 sleepers would also have been a good idea, as most of them had to be changed as the longer bogie wheel base locos tended to break the clip housings off the sleepers.

 

Originally there was a triangle and a line leading to the left off this curve, towards St. John's station and Cambridge.  I think that's what the redundant doll on the signal in the picture was for.  For a long time it had an ex LNW lower quadrant signal at the other end of it.  I once saw an 8F coming off the curve with a coal train for Goldington power station.

 

[chris p bacon]

54 minutes ago, 31A said:

I once saw an 8F coming off the curve with a coal train for Goldington power station.

 

I remember class 25's and Peaks on the coal trains, mainly when the bus went over the line on Cardington road but also the level crossing that replaced it.

[highpeakman]

13 hours ago, Trog said:

 

If the radius of that curve was tighter by 1m it would need to be fitted with a check rail. It was deliberately designed as a 201m radius to avoid that. Not using F19 sleepers would also have been a good idea, as most of them had to be changed as the longer bogie wheel base locos tended to break the clip housings off the sleepers.

 

Is the old box still there?

I realise it would be out of use but wondered about the building itself. I can't make it out clearly from Google satellite although there appears to be something there. The view from the roads on Google streets is totally obstructed by vegetation and houses.

[highpeakman]

13 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I remember class 25's and Peaks on the coal trains, mainly when the bus went over the line on Cardington road but also the level crossing that replaced it.

 

I have a vague memory of a class 20 crossing at that point with a short, possibly works, train but it could well be my memory playing tricks.

Edited March 28, 2020 by highpeakman

[dvdlcs]

I was in Bedford last summer, and encountered a candidate for the lowest of low bridges.

 

The (a?) railway crosses the (a?) river and there is a footpath along the river bank that passes underneath the railway bridge. The clearance given by a standard bridge sign, is 4' 9". There are signs stating that cyclists should dismount but a couple that passed me simply ducked down to the handle bars and carried on. It is near to where there is a big helix footbridge and there are some stabling sidings nearby. Full of Class 700(?) units on that day.

[chris p bacon]

23 minutes ago, dvdlcs said:

I was in Bedford last summer, and encountered a candidate for the lowest of low bridges.

 

The (a?) railway crosses the (a?) river and there is a footpath along the river bank that passes underneath the railway bridge. The clearance given by a standard bridge sign, is 4' 9". There are signs stating that cyclists should dismount but a couple that passed me simply ducked down to the handle bars and carried on. It is near to where there is a big helix footbridge and there are some stabling sidings nearby. Full of Class 700(?) units on that day.

 

That is the current route of the Bedford to Bletchley, it was originally the Midland route via Hitchin into Kings Cross before St Pancras was built.

[Rugd1022]

4 hours ago, highpeakman said:

 

Is the old box still there?

I realise it would be out of use but wondered about the building itself. I can't make it out clearly from Google satellite although there appears to be something there. The view from the roads on Google streets is totally obstructed by vegetation and houses.

 

St.Johns box is long gone now I'm afraid, and for its last few years it was surrounded by palisade fencing, marooned almost in a way....

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Rugd1022

[Rugd1022]

3 hours ago, dvdlcs said:

I was in Bedford last summer, and encountered a candidate for the lowest of low bridges.

 

The (a?) railway crosses the (a?) river and there is a footpath along the river bank that passes underneath the railway bridge. The clearance given by a standard bridge sign, is 4' 9". There are signs stating that cyclists should dismount but a couple that passed me simply ducked down to the handle bars and carried on. It is near to where there is a big helix footbridge and there are some stabling sidings nearby. Full of Class 700(?) units on that day.

 

The new footbridge replaced this one and the footpath you mention passes right underneath the Bletchley line under the far end of the bridge I'm sat on, the EMU sidings are just off to the left of the signal....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1E BoY]

Sometime ago it was asked as to how electrification masts could be fitted to Bletchley flyover should policy be reversed and the line electrified as originally intended as part of the rebuild.

 

I could remember wires being fitted for a short distance on the line towards Oxford (they were also fitted across other junctions in various locations along the W.C.M.L). The Oxford line so fitted (for a few hundred yards) was the original route used by passenger trains (on the flat) and not the flyover.

 

During my daily permitted walk today, I took a closer look at the flyover as I passed it and took these grabbed shots on the phone to show that provision looks to have been made for wiring the flyover during construction. The pillars identified in the top picture (circled in yellow) have 8 fixing bolts on them (see close up in bottom picture) to which masts could be applied. They are on both sides of the structure and the pillars containing them are spaced accordingly (every other one). 

 

The top picture shows the removal of the side walls and what they previously looked like. The structure was photographed from the east side of the flyover above the work site at the end of Duncombe Street next to the Park public house.

 

I would imagine the nuts on those bolts will need some shifting after all those years of standing unemployed.

 

Unfortunately all the people I used to know who could have answered the question are no longer around to ask. Sadly when they were, I never thought of asking them!

[Pannier Tank]

7 minutes ago, 1E BoY said:

I could remember wires being fitted for a short distance on the line towards Oxford (they were also fitted across other junctions in various locations along the W.C.M.L). The Oxford line so fitted (for a few hundred yards) was the original route used by passenger trains (on the flat) and not the flyover.

 

I think you are right in that the former Double Track Oxford Line had wires round the side of the former Carriage Shed to the first Signal on the Branchline. I can't recall if the old Platform 2 (a) had Wires installed or not; it was a Bay Platform by then. The North End of Platform 2 (b) did have wires as it was used to stable Electric Loco's.

[Nearholmer]

Even if those fixings are well past-it, which they may well be due to corrosion, it wouldn’t be beyond the wit of man to devise another form of fixing and support, ideally one involving minimum interference with the concrete.

[08221]

Sorry for going slightly off topic, but there was mention of the 1986 Bedford river festival a while back. The green Cravens unit ran a special Sunday service to the event  - here are a few of my photos of it along the branch.

 

[Nearholmer]

That unit looks Irish.

[rodent279]

2 hours ago, 1E BoY said:

Sometime ago it was asked as to how electrification masts could be fitted to Bletchley flyover should policy be reversed and the line electrified as originally intended as part of the rebuild.

 

I could remember wires being fitted for a short distance on the line towards Oxford (they were also fitted across other junctions in various locations along the W.C.M.L). The Oxford line so fitted (for a few hundred yards) was the original route used by passenger trains (on the flat) and not the flyover.

 

During my daily permitted walk today, I took a closer look at the flyover as I passed it and took these grabbed shots on the phone to show that provision looks to have been made for wiring the flyover during construction. The pillars identified in the top picture (circled in yellow) have 8 fixing bolts on them (see close up in bottom picture) to which masts could be applied. They are on both sides of the structure and the pillars containing them are spaced accordingly (every other one). 

 

The top picture shows the removal of the side walls and what they previously looked like. The structure was photographed from the east side of the flyover above the work site at the end of Duncombe Street next to the Park public house.

 

I would imagine the nuts on those bolts will need some shifting after all those years of standing unemployed.

 

Unfortunately all the people I used to know who could have answered the question are no longer around to ask. Sadly when they were, I never thought of asking them!

Pretty sure that wiring to Swanbourne was in the original WCML electrification scheme into London, but was one of the bits that got pruned when Macmillan/Marples came to power. I will check up.

 

Edit:-quick conversation with my dad, who worked on the wiring into Euston, he confirms that wiring to Swanbourne was in the original scheme, but was cut back, partly because the traffic for the proposed marshalling yard had gone. He had the bolts in the flyover wrapped in waxed tape, but 50yrs on I'd guess that they're probably no longer fit for purpose.

Edited March 31, 2020 by rodent279

[Edwin_m]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

That unit looks Irish.

I was just thinking that too.  Something about the colour scheme and the angle of the photo seems to emphasise the family resemblance with the Cravens coaches for CIE.  

[Davexoc]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Even if those fixings are well past-it, which they may well be due to corrosion, it wouldn’t be beyond the wit of man to devise another form of fixing and support, ideally one involving minimum interference with the concrete.

 

I take it someone has done some testing on all that concrete?

Just thinking some other local concrete structures that have/will fall(en) by the wayside, Bletchley leisure centre multi-storey (gone) and CMK Food Centre (lots of acro's helping hold that up).

[Nearholmer]

And several bridges on the grid roads, which I think the Chairman of the MRC can tell you all about in some detail.

 

Someone must have looked at it very closely indeed, and probably taken core samples, but my amateur impression, formed from a distance, is that it looks remarkably good, little spalling (you can see some, I think, in one of the photos above), very little sign of nasty salts weeping out of it, hardly any brown stains indicating that water has got in at the reinforcement, expansion joints still in working order etc.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Nearholmer

[jamie92208]

2 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

And several bridges on the grid roads, which I think the Chairman of the MRC can tell you all about in some detail.

 

Someone must have looked at it very closely indeed, and probably taken core samples, but my amateur impression, formed from a distance, is that it looks remarkably good, little or no spalling, very little sign of nasty salts weeping out of it, hardly any brown stains indicating that water has got in at the reinforcement etc.

I presume that because it has carried rail traffic and crosses a rather important main line that it has been subjevt to regular inspection and maintenance. Rather different to bridges over or under disused lines.

 

Jamie

[1E BoY]

Considerable expenditure was necessary to bring the flyover back into regular use for spoil trains during the WCML upgrade carried out by Railtrack (as it was back then) around the turn of the century.

 

Trains of engineering wagons containing spent ballast and spoil were taken off the main line at Denbigh Hall North Junction and ran down to a head shunt behind Whiteley Crescent and close to the Newton Road bridge. The locomotive (usually an EWS 66) ran round the train and then headed back over the flyover and took the junction to Fenny Stratford to access the Bedford (former Cambridge) line and taken to a site near Lidlington. 

 

The visible part of the track near the carriage washing plant when viewed from a unit window from the up slow line has looked in good condition since that reinstatement. 

 

Although the track bed was fenced off by the Newton Road bridge it has remained mothballed between there and Claydon Junction and was never closed and did not go through the statutory closure procedure. Something which is not always understood!

  

[Rugd1022]

I was on some of those WCML upgrade jobs and we took some of the spoil to Forders and some to Crewe.

[rodent279]

12 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

And several bridges on the grid roads, which I think the Chairman of the MRC can tell you all about in some detail.

 

Someone must have looked at it very closely indeed, and probably taken core samples, but my amateur impression, formed from a distance, is that it looks remarkably good, little spalling (you can see some, I think, in one of the photos above), very little sign of nasty salts weeping out of it, hardly any brown stains indicating that water has got in at the reinforcement, expansion joints still in working order etc.

It does look in pretty good nick considering it's the best part of 60 years old. To me, it's worth a preservation order, on the lines of New St power box. Rugby flyover must have been built around the same time, and is in a similar style.

[Rugd1022]

4 hours ago, rodent279 said:

It does look in pretty good nick considering it's the best part of 60 years old. To me, it's worth a preservation order, on the lines of New St power box. Rugby flyover must have been built around the same time, and is in a similar style.

 

Rugby Flyover on the Cov line was built in '59, my mate's grandad was a gaffer on the job at the time.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

Rugby Flyover on the Cov line was built in '59, my mate's grandad was a gaffer on the job at the time.

Same year as Bletchley.

All part of the WCML upgrade I assume.

[chris p bacon]

45 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Same year as Bletchley.

All part of the WCML upgrade I assume.

 

Pre flyover it was just a flat crossing, although few passenger (if any towards the end) actually crossed meaning a change of trains was required. 

 

With the envisaged electrification and increased services on the WCML and access to the proposed Swanbourne yard the flyover was seen as a necessity.

[Pannier Tank]

28 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Pre flyover it was just a flat crossing, although few passenger (if any towards the end) actually crossed meaning a change of trains was required. 

 

There were a few Oxford to Cambridge / Cambridge to Oxford that crossed at Bletchley which stopped all other through traffic whilst this took place. I often used to watch the 15:50 to Oxford and the 15:53 to Cambridge which were the Derby Lightweights (Class 108) DMU's. Invariably they were on time, not like today, which run when they feel like it!.