Colin parks Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hi Southernboy, Your latest update has been very entertaining and interesting. The work on the interiors for the 3SUBs looks very good and I like the idea of interchangeable inserts. Re. your problems with the cab 'noses', would it not be possible to try the soldering method again, but this time have a backing strip of brass fixed in behind the etched whiskers? It strikes me that any method of filing would benefit from some reinforcing from behind. As for the duration of the project, do not worry. My last EMU took seven months to complete and you are building three, which would equate to 21 months if a comparison were to be made. So you are making pretty good progress I would say! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted March 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 4, 2014 lets see the 207 been two years and the 201 18 months your progress is very good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Thanks for comments and suggestions gents, much appreciated as always. Colin: Unfortunately I think I've gone too far now to remove the putty / Araldite without stressing / distorting the basic brass assembly more than I dare. But I have been building up a wall of Araldite behind the lower-cab curves to reinforce the area. I think it will be ok in the end (fingers crossed ) Many thanks again, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Thanks for comments and suggestions gents, much appreciated as always. Colin: Unfortunately I think I've gone too far now to remove the putty / Araldite without stressing / distorting the basic brass assembly more than I dare. But I have been building up a wall of Araldite behind the lower-cab curves to reinforce the area. I think it will be ok in the end (fingers crossed ) Many thanks again, Mark Hi Mark. I'm sure you'll get it right. It has to be borne in mind that your posted pictures have images virtually the size of a 7mm coach and taken with a digital camera which is a usfeul referenece tool when modelling, but it hides no imperfections. So given all that, your models are going to look to be of a high standard of finish in reality. After all, your are the maker of 'that' row of shops. We have very confidence in you! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted March 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2014 Hi Mark, I find that my activity comes in fits and starts. When I'm enthused - and events conspire to give me blocks of available time - I can make quick progress on any given project. On other occasions, either enthusiasm flags or real life intrudes and projects can languish for weeks on end. As for the vehicles - it is a learning process. Have you considered using fine (white) Milliput instead of squadron putty? I don't know if three is any difference in the products but I've used both and always *seem* to enjoy greater success with Milliput, even though it's more of a hassle because it requires mixing. Or, if the brass "formers" are breaking away en masse, what about taking the hint and abandoning them altogether? The vacant space could be filled with a fabricated curved section Made from shaped/curved plastic. Small drinks bottles can be a good source of this, or other unwanted models. One last thing: I've invariably found when mastering a model that the second one is a lot better than the first. While the prototype may have proved the method and helped me identify pitfalls, I have several "first attempts" sitting unfinished in stock boxes because I learned from them and the subsequent builds were significantly smoother and better! I'm sure it'll turn out fine in the end! Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Thank you gents for constructive and encouraging comments. Ben: It's the 'whiskers' on the cab fronts (see picture below) that I haven't had success with. The two larger sections either-side of centre are fine. I think as an etch it would have been more successful if the 'whiskers' had been panels like those either-side of centre. So it's just a matter of me filling the gaps where the 'whiskers' were, rather than reconstructing the whole lower cab-front section (if I understood you correctly). I do have some Milliput so could give that a go. I have found though that Araldite is quite a nice medium to handle in it's own right (especially when given five or ten minutes to settle first). Thanks also for the suggestion of using bottle tops - that's an interesting idea and one I may employ on future projects. -------------------------------------- Many thanks again, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted March 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hi Mark, I see what you mean about the "whiskers." But full panels would not permit the tumblehome of the prototype, would they? Re the plastic bottles - I meant really the curved side section or, in the case of curves in two directions, the "transition" section between the main cylindrical body and the neck. I know Bernard Taylor uses these for the windscreens in some of his small scale cars. But obviously there's nothing to stop you painting it! cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Hello Ben, You're right about the full panels / tumblehome around the lower-half of the cab ... they'll need some filler/shaping ... I'm still thinking this through as I progress ... (sometimes it's difficult to picture in advance which will be the best method / trial and error forms the learning curve). Thanks also for clarifying the use of bottle tops. I can see myself at the supermarket scrutinising row upon row of products with a rule. I can also see the staff thinking I'm some sort of weirdo / potential terrorist and calling security Well, thanks again, I appreciate your interest. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Thank you gents for constructive and encouraging comments. Ben: It's the 'whiskers' on the cab fronts (see picture below) that I haven't had success with. The two larger sections either-side of centre are fine. I think as an etch it would have been more successful if the 'whiskers' had been panels like those either-side of centre. So it's just a matter of me filling the gaps where the 'whiskers' were, rather than reconstructing the whole lower cab-front section (if I understood you correctly). I do have some Milliput so could give that a go. I have found though that Araldite is quite a nice medium to handle in it's own right (especially when given five or ten minutes to settle first). Thanks also for the suggestion of using bottle tops - that's an interesting idea and one I may employ on future projects. -------------------------------------- Many thanks again, Mark Howza'bout soldering a piece of brass mesh, curved to suit, (the stuff is easy to dimple), behind the whiskers, and then fill & build up with low-melt solder and filed to shape ? All the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Sheet copper will stretch if panel-bashed to take shapes well. The clear bottle are quite handy for curved glazing, but any suitably pre-shaped, vac formed plastic would do for those lower panels if you go down that route. With that cab you might find it easier to remove everything below the waist line and simply make a one-piece plastic shape that fits, rather than trying to blend between the fingers and the thin half-etch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Hi Mark, I'm up late and just going over the possibilities of this cab front thing: Is there any reason why the lower part of the cab could not be shaped from a solid piece of square brass or other material? It would mean planting the upper part of the cab onto the shaped block and adding the lower panelling after fashioning the tumble home, but it sounds easier than trying to get these 'whiskers' to do the job. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I agree with the above post, remove the whiskers completely, insert small brass, then file to shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I agree with the above post, remove the whiskers completely, insert small brass, then file to shape. Wow. I thought I was up late, but Tigermoth, you win the trophy! Back to matters cab front, it looks to me as if the width tips of the whiskers would not add up to the length of panelling required once shaped, however hard one tried. If it is so - but bear in mind I'm often wrong, the whiskers will never bend to give the right shape without leaving gaps. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 In between cutting the wood for the fire, letting the chickens out, fetching water from the well etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenashton Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I do have some Milliput so could give that a go. I have found though that Araldite is quite a nice medium to handle in it's own right (especially when given five or ten minutes to settle first). Howza'bout soldering a piece of brass mesh, curved to suit, (the stuff is easy to dimple), behind the whiskers, and then fill & build up with low-melt solder and filed to shape ? All the best. I agree with the above post, remove the whiskers completely, insert small brass, then file to shape. Is there any reason why the lower part of the cab could not be shaped from a solid piece of square brass or other material? It would mean planting the upper part of the cab onto the shaped block and adding the lower panelling after fashioning the tumble home, but it sounds easier than trying to get these 'whiskers' to do the job. Lots of suggestions already, but I've another to add to the mix ... Try a product called J-B Weld. It's Araldite-based and hard as nails. But it's easy to form and can be cut, drilled and filed once hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
c2c Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi Mark, personally I would'nt be doing any more soldering as it could all end up on the work bench in one big blob, not only that it can melt into places where you don't want it to run, not to mention heat and risk of distortion also. What I would recomend is to try out a small mix of Milliput by applying it to a piece of scrap brass, let it harden and then practice gently carving it with a decent scalpal. When I use it I leave it to cure for about 24 hours and find it carves well, it can be worked after just a couple of hours but if not cured enough runs the risk of peeling from the applied surface. Another point worth mentioning, if you are using fine files to shape Milliput rub chalk into them this prevents clogging. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Thank you for the replies and variety of suggestions. Very much appreciated! As mentioned previously, it is too late to go back and start the cab fronts again. The same applies to any major reconstructive surgery. That would risk destroying work to-date. So I will have to stick with a number of rounds of filler / Araldite / filing ... I'm sure it will work out well in the end, even if it does take a little while to achieve. -------------------------------------------------------- Meanwhile, in other news ... at the weekend I completed the interiors of the three Motor Brake Composites ... That leaves just interiors for the MBTs and one other set of major components remaining: The rooves. After that it's on to detailing. Many thanks again, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 On Araldite i have had good results using wet and dry, super fine and super wet, comes out smooth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 LSWR 3 Sub Update: 17 I think an update is long overdue here - although don't get excited as it's been slow progress as usual I'm afraid. I've been working on the domed cab fronts using the following method ... Below you see on the left the base level of the cab front which was roughly cut from Plasticard , then another layer, and on the right the final top layer. These were then glued together. The 'tongues' of the formation are designed to slot reasonably snugly under the curved roof sections. They were then glued with Araldite and left for a couple of days to set firmly. Next Milliput was applied over the domes and a slurry of the same washed over the rest of the rooves. The reason for the wash of slurry is because the 3D printed rooves have quite a texture to them as you can see in the picture below. I painted the roof section brown in order to reveal the degree of texture ( ... in N gauge it's often difficult enough to see things, but especially so when they're coloured white, and under a brightly illuminated magnifying glass - I often find I don't spot errors or blemishes until I see them in photographs). Anyway, hopefully when I sand back the rooves the texture will be reasonably smooth: I'm not looking for a glass finish as I think a small degree of imperfection will add to the character of the finished units - I suppose it's getting the balance that counts. So this morning I'd got as far as the next photo ... In the following image you can see the results are a little varied in terms of finish and another round of filling and filing will follow - I'd expected that to be the case. There are a few gaps between carriage side and roof too - I hope to remedy that when I glue the carriage sides and rooves together, and any remaining disparities will be disguised when I fix the cantrails ... at least that's my plan. (Just to mention - the curved cab fronts still need a lot of work - they're in abeyance at the moment .... ) But collectively they're coming together nicely I think. Btw - these are still separate rooves, bodies and floors not yet fixed together so they may look a bit haphazard Finally: I was lucky enough to find myself in York for work last week and I grabbed an hour to pop round to the National Railway Museum and take a few photos of details of their 3-Sub which I hadn't thought of taking on my last visit a few years ago. The NRM 3-Sub post-dates mine by around 10 years - but all the same it's useful to gauge general arrangements and proportions. I took a few dozen images that I won't bore you with ... but there is one in particular which I thought I'd share ... It is the axle box from the rear bogie. The unit was built in 1925 and was the only SR 'new build' stock (ie. it did not utilise recycled parts from older stock). So why does it have LSWR stamped on it? I checked my books and all I can discover is that yes, some of the SR axle boxes were stamped 'LSWR' - but no explanation is given as to why. Maybe it was so soon after Grouping that it seemed too minor a detail to go to the expense of changing? At the end of the day I won't be modeling this degree of detail, so it's purely academic, but it did catch my curiosity. Well that's my update. Next I'll be working on things like roof and cab details, and hopefully soon after that I'll be able to start assembling my 'kit of parts'. My eternal frustration is that every time I think I'm 'nearly there' I realise there's actually another round of work to do first ... Oh well, all part of the learning curve I suppose! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Coming along nicely, Mark. Regarding the axleboxes, I would think it was likely that it was a case of using up existing stock. The Southern wasn't noted for it's profligacy, at least pre OVSB. There are still plenty of English Electric traction motors in use to this day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted May 4, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2014 They look great. From the photos it appears that the consistency that you have achieved is outstanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 Thank you Bernard and Kris, and also for 'likes' etc, appreciated as always. "Regarding the axleboxes, I would think it was likely that it was a case of using up existing stock." You're right I'm sure Bernard. What got me curious was that my books on the subject of Southern EMUs are usually careful to note which parts were recycled from one generation of stock to the next. So when it came to the term 'New Build', I assumed it was the exception. Obviously not the case exactly: 'New Build' maybe, but perhaps using an old die to save a few shillings along the way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Hi Mark, I'm sure i've said it before but yet more fantastic work! these units are really going to be works of art when complete! Graham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Hi Mark, The fleet seems to be coming along nicely! It is quite a feat of endurance to be working on three units at once like this. Re. the LSWR axle boxes, the Southern mixed and matched so many components over the years. Someone posted a picture a while ago on one of my EMU building topics of an LSWR axle box on a 2 EPB which was definitely running in that condition in the 70's and possibly beyond that time. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 .... Someone posted a picture a while ago on one of my EMU building topics of an LSWR axle box on a 2 EPB which was definitely running in that condition in the 70's and possibly beyond that time... That'd be me: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67297-4-cor/?p=1006904 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.