What have you done with your Keyser kit

[DavidStarbuck]

Perfect, made my day. Thank you Hayfield.

Now I have no excuses !

 

David

[hayfield]

David

 

No problems at all, if you have an issue I can take the odd photo, but its not that complicated.

 

Do check the straightness of the frames, as the method of punching out the holes tended to distort them.

 

Also look out for spare etched chassis 44/45xx as these do tend to be far superior. I keep an eye out and buy components (wheels, motors etc) as they come up so eventually I have sufficient to  rebuild/replace inferior items. On the whole the kits were good but let down by the chassis, mainly poor quality items (Wheels & Motors)

[hayfield]

Look after your not so popular kits, This is one kit I have been after but not at these prices  K's SR K class

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ks-KIT-BUILT-LBSCR-SR-K-CLASS-2-6-0-LOCO-No-2338-in-SR-Black-Livery-OO-Gauge/293615292547?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

The loco looks well built with Romford wheels, and by the description not an original motor, but when 2 people want something and have deep pockets things get expensive

 

At least they are buying from a very reputable dealer, one I use quite often,. Ray started it at a decent price (£75), I guess its still at a price of a modern kit once wheels motor and gears are bought, In the past I baulked at £100+ these kits were fetching, but I would personally at these prices prefer to buy a modern kit with an etched chassis and modern motor and gearbox. Still good to see a K's kit being appreciated. No doubt some will now be searching their cupboards

[Prometheus]

I thought that I’d recognised Ray’s table!

 

Tony

[Jeff Smith]

The two unassembled K's kits I've been watching for 18 months or so here in the US are still for sale although the prices have been reduced.  I already have a 63xx but the Dean Goods might be of interest if the price came down.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ks-KEYSER-Tender-kit-GW-GWR-2-6-0-MOGUL-CLASS-63XX-Locomotive-new-complete/253018908656?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ks-KEYSER-Tender-kit-Dean-GWR-0-6-0-Train-Locomotive/253002734891?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile

[hayfield]

40 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

The two unassembled K's kits I've been watching for 18 months or so here in the US are still for sale although the prices have been reduced.  I already have a 63xx but the Dean Goods might be of interest if the price came down.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ks-KEYSER-Tender-kit-GW-GWR-2-6-0-MOGUL-CLASS-63XX-Locomotive-new-complete/253018908656?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ks-KEYSER-Tender-kit-Dean-GWR-0-6-0-Train-Locomotive/253002734891?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile

 

Jeff

 

These two kits are extremely common and to sell them you have to virtually give them away, worth £50 max but for that you could find a decently built example with better wheels and perhaps a decent motor, might even get change enough to buy another. There are a few sellers in the UK who try and get very high prices for average kits/models. The model in question started at £75, which whilst high for a keyser kit is cheap for this model, but the price was set by bidders, not an ambitious seller. 

 

The kit in question sold few in number, is uncommon and always sell at a premium, there are also a few others likewise which fetch a premium. The one in question sold for £270, Ray is a decent business seller and the loco had a set of Romford drivers a non standard motor, and looked to be well built

[Jeff Smith]

John,

 

I would treat them as body kits as I work in P4 so would need replacement chassis, motor and wheels anyway.  I have a bag of parts from my 63xx and may be able to use the wheels for 0-16.5!  I did actually pay $95 for the carded Ks 63xx, so a later version than the boxed one I referenced above.

 

My pleasure is in the building and the 63xx/Comet chassis has given me plenty to do!  

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140831-ks-gwr-63xx-new-p4-chassis-options-suggestions/

 

[hayfield]

23 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

John,

 

I would treat them as body kits as I work in P4 so would need replacement chassis, motor and wheels anyway.  I have a bag of parts from my 63xx and may be able to use the wheels for 0-16.5!  I did actually pay $95 for the carded Ks 63xx, so a later version than the boxed one I referenced above.

 

My pleasure is in the building and the 63xx/Comet chassis has given me plenty to do!  

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140831-ks-gwr-63xx-new-p4-chassis-options-suggestions/

 

 

 

Jeff

 

Sadly you have to pay a premium in the USA for British models, so I guess its a different story out there and of course if you buy a UK model then you have to pay for postage and perhaps import taxes

 

As you say they are good bodyline kits..  I have just bought a 1361 kit, sold on the chassis and bought myself a CSP/Agenoria 1361 chassis kit in the hope I can build the chassis to EM gauge and squeeze the body on to it.

http://cspmodels.com/abante/index.php?rt=product/product&manufacturer_id=21&product_id=190

 

Chassis    http://cspmodels.com/abante/index.php?rt=product/product&manufacturer_id=21&product_id=255

 

Also I have a selection of Comet, Perseverance, Branchlines, Southeastern Finecast and a Martin Finney chassis either in or to go in my Keyser kits

 

Sometimes the effort of fitting an etched chassis is a bit much, then its a case of altering the K's chassis to EM gauge, then fitting good quality wheels, motor and gearbox.

[Barclay]

I've described this in the industrial section, so apologies to those who read that too.

 

K's 'Taff Vale' Hudswell Clarke kit with Ambis chassis, Gibson wheels, High Level gearbox.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Barclay

[hayfield]

Barclay

 

Stunning loco, scrubs up very well when someone puts that little effort into building them

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Used to be a Keyser Beyer Goods, but I rebuilt it into a vaguely accurate LCDR small Scotchman, and then it wrecked itself, so now being rebuilt.

[hayfield]

Perhaps we should start a new thread, kit bashed K's kits. I have thought about changing my GNR atlantic to a SR Atlantic H1?  I have an extra set of rear steps so I could easily extend the rear footplate

[dunwurken]

I am in the process of researching the standard gauge locomotives that ran on P D Hancock's Craigshire.   As one might expect for a modeller of his era there are some models constructed, wholly or partly, from Keyser parts.  Within the Edinburgh & Lothians PDH Collection are two Ks kits one of which is a Caley 0-4-4T No.127 and the other a J72 in NER livery No.2187.

 

I have trawled through this thread and answered a few of my questions but.......

Firstly the CR tank:

Am I correct in saying the model is fitted with a MkII motor [which runs very nicely] and can anyone give a date for the introduction of the kit?

CR 127 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

CR 127 chassis by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

CR 127 underside by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

Buffers removed whilst rear buffer beam repaired and paintwork touch up.

 

With the exception of a damaged rear buffer beam the NER tank whilst in good external order is not so good on the inside.   Firstly as can be seen the front section of the whitemetal part of the chassis has broken at a weak point adjacent to the front axle and the pick ups are scrap.  With a bit of care and much cursing the front end damage is repairable and as can be seen PD had a bash at this himself.  That said the chassis actually runs OK!  I presume the picks were originally to two wheels as per the CR tank despite this being an 0-6-0 but confirmation would be appreciated. 

 

Next the motor.  I thought this as MkII but now have my doubts.  It is longer than the CR tank motor and not like the catalogue sketches of a MKII.  Can anyone identify it?  It is stamped Ks.  It will run in one direction and shorts in the other so a bit of fiddling and cursing required.  One thing I have noticed is that a previous PD repair was to replace one of the carbon brushes and its spring [probably still hiding in the carpet of his old house!] but they are both too small.  Does anyone know which of the current crop of carbon brushes available from the spares suppliers would be the best fit? 

 

Lastly is this an early or late version of the kit?

 

NER 2187 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

Chassis NER 2187 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

Motor NER 2187 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

 

Malcolm

[Jeff Smith]

John,

 

Reference the outside frame Dean Goods I referenced as listed on eBay in the US, would this be one of the small number of outside framed versions (2361-2380) or is it actually an earlier Standard Goods from around 1866?

[Michael Edge]

I think that's a Mk1 motor, the Mk2 had a shorter armature and magnets - and shorter overall.

[hayfield]

Malcolm

 

The Caley has the Mk1 motor its longer at 36mm long (the body) the Mk2 is shorter 30mm and the armature is noticeably shorter

 

Your second photo (J72)is of the first K's motor, I have never seen a name attributed to it.

 

By the look of it the chassis has had it (has someone tried to repair it?) Wizard sells the Mainly Trains etched chassis  https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/lcp33/.  Markit/Romford wheels are quite expensive unless bought second hand, try Scale Link wheels which are a bit cheaper. Chris at High Level has some lovely little iron core motors at under £10 each and sells subline gearboxes. (He even sells a coreless motor at £27)  This set up will transform the model in both looks and performance. The loco certainly deserves it as it looks exceptionally well made and painted

[hayfield]

6 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

John,

 

Reference the outside frame Dean Goods I referenced as listed on eBay in the US, would this be one of the small number of outside framed versions (2361-2380) or is it actually an earlier Standard Goods from around 1866?

 

 

Jeff

 

From memory I seem to recall that its a Dean Goods with outside frames, posing as an Armstrong Goods

[Jeff Smith]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Jeff

 

From memory I seem to recall that its a Dean Goods with outside frames, posing as an Armstrong Goods

Doesn't sound very prototypical

[hayfield]

Jeff

 

The exact prototype details I am unaware of, many kits especially the early ones were not as accurate as they could be. The 14xx footplate is a few mm too short for instance. These days we are used to everything being true to prototype,  50 years ago things were different 

[Jeff Smith]

Have done a bit more research and studied the instructions from the eBay advert for the outside framed Dean Goods.  Ks merely added some outside frames and presumably extended axles.  This would be incorrect as the Dean Goods with outside frames apparently was completely different below the footplate with a different wheelbase (I don't know how different though).

[dunwurken]

10 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I think that's a Mk1 motor, the Mk2 had a shorter armature and magnets - and shorter overall.

 

9 hours ago, hayfield said:

Malcolm

 

The Caley has the Mk1 motor its longer at 36mm long (the body) the Mk2 is shorter 30mm and the armature is noticeably shorter

 

Your second photo (J72)is of the first K's motor, I have never seen a name attributed to it.

 

By the look of it the chassis has had it (has someone tried to repair it?) Wizard sells the Mainly Trains etched chassis  https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/lcp33/.  Markit/Romford wheels are quite expensive unless bought second hand, try Scale Link wheels which are a bit cheaper. Chris at High Level has some lovely little iron core motors at under £10 each and sells subline gearboxes. (He even sells a coreless motor at £27)  This set up will transform the model in both looks and performance. The loco certainly deserves it as it looks exceptionally well made and painted

Thank you gentlemen for the information on the motors.

 

PD did have a bash at soldering the chassis together but may have given up, especially if the motor was playing up, and never got round to building a replacement chassis.   As far as possible I am attempting to keep things as PD built them but in this case the existing chassis / mechanism may go into 'museum' storage with a new chassis and motor installed.  As you say it is well made and painted model and it would be a shame for  it to be permanently sidelined.

 

Malcolm

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, dunwurken said:

 

Thank you gentlemen for the information on the motors.

 

PD did have a bash at soldering the chassis together but may have given up, especially if the motor was playing up, and never got round to building a replacement chassis.   As far as possible I am attempting to keep things as PD built them but in this case the existing chassis / mechanism may go into 'museum' storage with a new chassis and motor installed.  As you say it is well made and painted model and it would be a shame for  it to be permanently sidelined.

 

Malcolm

 

 

Malcolm

 

These kits were quite common, perhaps a request on this forum (explaining the circumstances) to see if anyone has  a spare either early or later K's chassis, especially if you wish to keep it vintage, I bet there are quite a few chassis/part/built K's J72 lying in cupboards. Just checked my K's cupboard but I sold my kit

[hayfield]

22 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Doesn't sound very prototypical

 

 

Jeff

 

Perhaps a little more background info would be more enlightening. It's so easy to judge things out of context and measure them in todays terms when in fact these things came to the market 60 or 70 years ago when things were so different.

 

To start off with we were coming out of a long period of post war austerity, raw materials were becoming more available and people were starting to have disposable income.

 

Things like motors were still large, manufacturing processes still lacking todays finesse, and the quality of materials and manufacturing processes fairly crude when compared to those of today 

 

Prototype information (plans etc) less accessible than today.  Acceptable standards were far lower than today

 

Back in the 60's Just look at Wills kits, good kits but most were designed to fit onto a RTR chassis, compromises were needed to get the locos to fit them, but they were a far cry from the likes of Triang, Trix , Hornby Dublo, Graham Farish and Playcraft

 

As a 8/9  year old my next-door neighbor bought a K's Terrier and 3 SR 4 wheeled coaches. The first thing was how much he spent on one loco and 3 coaches (a fortune to a  8/9 year old), and against my Hornby Dublo 3 rail locos and tin plate coaches so exotic. As for buying a Wills kit plus a RTR loco and disposing of the body, totally unthinkable

 

K's came along and sold complete kits (including transfers at first) just needing glue and paint. Etching was in its infancy (photo engraving I think it was called) Very few had electric soldering irons and a funny thing called Protofour was just being thought of. So a simple thing of reusing most of one mold and adding a few extra castings to produce another type of loco was sound business sense and most buyers would be unaware of the subtle differences.  I think this kit was of the 70's but was so different to what was available on the RTR market and by then affordable  

 

[Jeff Smith]

John,

 

You are right, it's easy to be picky.  Sometimes we just accept what we are supplied in terms of accuracy and other times we criticize the tiniest detail that can hardly be seen.  I guess models with outside frames would have been unusual enough at the time to forgive the wheelbase difference - which in all honesty I can't determine anyway!

[Jeff Smith]

Ok this is my final post on the outside frame 2361 class 'Dean Goods' from Ks.  I have found photos of 2361 and 2380.  The first and last of the class.  Both have parallel boilers and Belpaire fireboxes, and basic cabs looking extremely similar to the 2301 class.  The wheelbase is impossible to measure from photos but luckily a similar angle comparison shows them to be very similar.  So I think Ks was quite justified in creating this kit.  I might even consider it with a Comet sprung chassis!