What have you done with your Keyser kit

[97xx]

Somewhat buoyed by my relative success in turning the K's 97xx into something acceptable, I've decided to try to repeat with the considerably nastier Bulleid Q1...

 

Truly terrible kit. Motor sort of works, but think I will replace - so any suggestions for what might fit most welcome.

 

Tender is (was before I split it back up) square, yet axle holes were not opposite each other!

 

It appears I did install an additional pick up in the tender - with spring pickups stuck to tender roof!

 

I suppose this qualifies for the 'before' picture!

 

Something of a challenge...

Edited April 30, 2020 by 97xx

[hayfield]

One of my favorite locos, I have models from both K's and Southeastern Finecast who actually sell a new etched chassis for the loco. Certainly bin or pass on to a collector the HP2M motor, and check the quality of the wheels as these were easily damaged

[97xx]

43 minutes ago, hayfield said:

One of my favorite locos, I have models from both K's and Southeastern Finecast who actually sell a new etched chassis for the loco. Certainly bin or pass on to a collector the HP2M motor, and check the quality of the wheels as these were easily damaged

 

Useful to know - thanks. From your experiences is the SEF chassis likely to fit the K's body without a lot of effort?  

 

Given it's £90+ (and I assume excluding wheels and motor?) this makes it a very expensive proposition, given the pretty poor standard of the body - I need to judge whether it's worth investing too much in a good chassis.

 

I'm not inclined to reuse the existing wheels, so a compromise would be re-wheel, plunger pickups, plus a motor that I can engineer to fit.

 

Would welcome any suggestions! Thanks.

[hayfield]

97xx

 

Unless I have misunderstood your reply there is no need to buy the full kit at £94 but the body and tender kit at £36. This chassis kit is for both loco and tender and is just in a different class to the K's chassis. If going this route I would ask Dave to include a spare parts list for the loco as there may well be a few extra parts to super detail the loco

 

 I bought this SEF kit s/h the issue is that the motor and gears are poorly meshed, plus it now needs rebuilding to EM gauge(shame as the chassis has been built very well) .

 

The meshing issue is easy for some, I would rather use a more modern set of gears/gearbox and a decent flat can motor

 

 

As you can see the bodies are much the same, should be an easy fit, certainly a D11 motor would not be as much as a squeeze fitting into the K's body

 

 

The tender chassis would also be an easy fit

 

 

Instructions for the chassis

 

 

Markit wheels are so much better, but both use 1/8 axles

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by hayfield

[97xx]

No turning back now!

 

Perhaps I should Blog the whole process...?

 

 

[30368]

Yes 97XX why not? Will be interesting to follow. Good luck with the job!

 

My Little Engines built kit. Completed many years ago.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[hayfield]

I did not build this one, but I converted it to EM gauge and fitted a decent motor and High Level gearbox. it was painted in black and had BR logos, I was always going to repaint it, initially SR green but I have just painted 4 locos in Post war Malachite and noticed I had some Urie LSWR loco green

 

 

Looking almost fluorescent hopefully by the time some black paint and lining is added the colour will tone down a bit, perhaps Drummond green might have been a better choice  

[Beechnut]

I think the dock tanks have featured before but I thought I’d share mine. 
More or less as it comes except for Markits wheels, High Level/Mashima, beams to leading axles, and of 

course it’s EM gauge.

The pickups are atop the wheels.

47164 is the member of the class that was trialled successfuly on the C&HP but couldn’t be spared by 

the operating authorities, makes one wonder why they bothered.

 

Brendan

 

 

[hayfield]

Brendan

 

A lovely job you have done, the chassis of k's locos were the weak link, but then they were budget priced kits and good for their time and I guess using dearer parts may have left the kits less attractive financially, and of course technology has improved 

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Brendan

 

A lovely job you have done, the chassis of k's locos were the weak link, but then they were budget priced kits and good for their time and I guess using dearer parts may have left the kits less attractive financially, and of course technology has improved 

Budget priced, eh gods....... They made todays RTR look bargain basement.

 

Paul

[Jeff Smith]

Yes they may well have been budget priced.  I remember buying a 57xx in Beaties in Bristol in the early eighties, with a coupon, but can't recall how much for.  The 43xx I referenced in an earlier post was about the same vintage (bubble pack), I wonder how much that cost back in the day.  I paid around US$95 just a year ago!  Although I am ditching the chassis, wheels, motor, cylinders and slide bars, there's still a lot of useful parts left, nuts, bolts, wire, pick-up pb strip etc.  Really was a complete kit!

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Budget priced, eh gods....... They made todays RTR look bargain basement.

 

Paul

 

Paul

 

Going back to 1967 a J72 would set you back just under £5 and just needed glue and paint (quite often the kit included transfers). A wills 94xx cost £4.35 but needed a chassis, but in those days obtaining a chassis usually ment buying a loco and unlike today even Triang Jinty locos were in comparison still expensive second hand

 

A Romford Phantom would cost over £2 with gears, a set of wheels for an 0-6-0 just under £2  So a Willa J69 with a special chassis would cost £3.50 for the kit & chassis + £4 for wheels motor and gears

 

Back then it still was a time of austerity, cramped housing, no credit cards few had bank accounts, gas and electric on coin meters, very few cars etc. by the 70's K's kits especially were quite affordable in comparison to other makes, which would cost between 70% and 100% more 

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Yes they may well have been budget priced.  I remember buying a 57xx in Beaties in Bristol in the early eighties, with a coupon, but can't recall how much for.  The 43xx I referenced in an earlier post was about the same vintage (bubble pack), I wonder how much that cost back in the day.  I paid around US$95 just a year ago!  Although I am ditching the chassis, wheels, motor, cylinders and slide bars, there's still a lot of useful parts left, nuts, bolts, wire, pick-up pb strip etc.  Really was a complete kit!

 

Jeff

 

In 1984 a 57xx would cost £31.25  a 63xx 41.95

in 1970  57xx £5.75   63xx £8.75

 

I think their affordability peaked in the early 70's as I remember getting 2 kits (Bulldog and Aberdare) for Christmas,  

[Jeff Smith]

Yes, we forget how high inflation was over that period.  I think around 20% in the early eighties.

[hayfield]

I remember you got a mortgage for as much as you could afford knowing that in 3 years time it would have halved in spending terms, also handing in my notice every 4 months to get a rise

 

But that was a short period when wages rose but the cost of modelling items either stood still or got cheaper. I bought those 2 kits from a company in South Wales (Cardiff or Swansea) as they were discounting the kits, something new in model railway terms. Previously my local shop ordered them from W&H in London, was not around that time  compulsory MRRP was abolished ?

 

I an still using and buying parts with ludicrously low old prices on them, one wonders how anyone made any money in those days 

[Phil Traxson]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Jeff

 

In 1984 a 57xx would cost £31.25  a 63xx 41.95

in 1970  57xx £5.75   63xx £8.75

 

I think their affordability peaked in the early 70's as I remember getting 2 kits (Bulldog and Aberdare) for Christmas,  

just to put some sort of perspective on this, my take home pay as a maintenance fitter (40 hrs + 8hrs overtime) in 1970 was £25  by 1984 it had risen to £120 so the price of the kits was much the same proportion of my weekly wage. Mind you that I got married in 1973, the kits immediately became less affordable!! I did ,however, manage to buy a K's GWR Beyer Peacock "322" and get it to run, until the motor burnt out (x 2) and a Magna Models LMS 3f  ( a real turkey, take this lump of whitemetal and file it to 3f shape). Still have them both, "322" still needs a motor, but does have Romford wheels and extended axles though, one day--!  

Edited May 3, 2020 by Phil Traxson

[hayfield]

This is a bit of what someone else has done with their k's kit

 

 

Advertised as having a short and chimney needs refitting I thought my £30 was safe with it having an etched chassis and Romford wheels ( when I bought it the brake gear was still fitted to the chassis. Well it had a multitude of issues relating to it having a compensated chassis, bent brake gear and Romford wheels with oversized flanges

 

 

The compensation works too well showing that the front wheel can be lifted by 3.25 mm whilst still keeping the other two wheels on the rails.

 

A good move putting an etched chassis under the body and compensation will improve electrical pickup. But no account of overscale wheel flanges have been taken into consideration

 

There are a few issues with the body which should be easily fixed, but the motor looks like its had it

[MarkC]

14 minutes ago, hayfield said:

This is a bit of what someone else has done with their k's kit

 

 

Advertised as having a short and chimney needs refitting I thought my £30 was safe with it having an etched chassis and Romford wheels ( when I bought it the brake gear was still fitted to the chassis. Well it had a multitude of issues relating to it having a compensated chassis, bent brake gear and Romford wheels with oversized flanges

 

 

The compensation works too well showing that the front wheel can be lifted by 3.25 mm whilst still keeping the other two wheels on the rails.

 

A good move putting an etched chassis under the body and compensation will improve electrical pickup. But no account of overscale wheel flanges have been taken into consideration

 

There are a few issues with the body which should be easily fixed, but the motor looks like its had it

I wonder why the builder put the motor & gearbox that way round? Seems strange, as there's plenty of room in the body.

 

As for compensation & oversize Romford flanges - I've built a few chassis with such combinations over the years - in fact, one of them had an outing on Little Bytham last year (Hat tip to TW) - and it does present some challenges. Having said that, 3.25mm movement is a little excessive! I think that I'd be looking to rebuild the track if that sort of movement was required!

 

Mark

[hayfield]

Mark

 

For what ever reason the builder left the brake rigging wires intact between the two frames, also the wire stops on the hornblocks have to rise above the tops of the mainframes owing to the way the hornblock guides are designed, perhaps a little excessive in this case, there is a gap of appx 12 mm between the mainframes and tank top, the motor uses which I believe is a Tenshido is 14 mm tall. I do have a Mashima 10 series motor and High Level have their own 10 series motors as well as a 12mm round coreless motor.

 

The balance point of the whitemetal body is only slightly off center towards the cab, so I don't think it makes any difference to the bodies adhesion over all 6 wheels, but I agree that the motor needs to face the other way to free up the cab 

Edited May 13, 2020 by hayfield

[Izzy]

9 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Mark

 

For what ever reason the builder lest the brake rigging wires intact between the two frames

 

 

Probably to stop the joints fracturing and the wires coming out if separate. I have always found it necessary to form individual wires as a 'L' shape so the leg behind the inside frame secures properly to it. With thin etched frames it's also a good way of strengthening them.

 

Izzy

[MarkC]

7 hours ago, hayfield said:

Mark

 

For what ever reason the builder left the brake rigging wires intact between the two frames, also the wire stops on the hornblocks have to rise above the tops of the mainframes owing to the way the hornblock guides are designed, perhaps a little excessive in this case, there is a gap of appx 12 mm between the mainframes and tank top, the motor uses which I believe is a Tenshido is 14 mm tall. I do have a Mashima 10 series motor and High Level have their own 10 series motors as well as a 12mm round coreless motor.

 

The balance point of the whitemetal body is only slightly off center towards the cab, so I don't think it makes any difference to the bodies adhesion over all 6 wheels, but I agree that the motor needs to face the other way to free up the cab 

It was freeing up the cab that was my concern, certainly. No serious balance issues with a chunky loco like that

 

Mark

[hayfield]

7 hours ago, Izzy said:

 

Probably to stop the joints fracturing and the wires coming out if separate. I have always found it necessary to form individual wires as a 'L' shape so the leg behind the inside frame secures properly to it. With thin etched frames it's also a good way of strengthening them.

 

Izzy

 

Mark

 

Sorry I misunderstood you. I had another lucky find when checking one of my SEF M7 kits, it had a Mashima 1025 flat can motor in it, there is plenty of room in the M7 for something a bit bigger, and in my motor box I knew I had 2 1015's

[hayfield]

Recently I have been finishing off some Wills/Southeastern Finecast models, I started to convert thos Adams Radial quite a while ago, In Feb I bought a new gearbox and earlier bought a new airbrush, as I had not spent hours on building this loco it became the test piece for the airbrush. I must admit the loco was quite bright just in green, the colours are starting to tone it down a bit.

 

 

The first of the Adams going through the paint shop, buffers still need fitting, then lining and numbering to go. Chassis converted to EM gauge, Romford wheels fitted. Small Mashima motor and High Level gearbox. I may try and squeeze a slightly larger motor in as the small Mashima's are very useful for smaller tank locos

 

The second one is in primer, will be painted in the earlier Drummond darker green. The chassis currently is in 00 gauge and has the dreaded plastic wheels and HP2M motor. It will undergo the same conversion, chassis widened with 1mm black plasticard, Romford/Markit wheels, High Level gearbox but undecided on what motor I will use

[DavidStarbuck]

Hi, I appreciate that most of you are experienced K's modellers but and would think my request rather basic but I would be grateful if anyone has a copy of the instructions for building the L25 70 Series Class 55XX 2-6-2 GWR Tank. I purchased one recently, knowing that it didn't have the instructions but I guess I over estimated my skills with this although I have built a few Ks models before. The bag of small screws and assembling the front and rear trucks are confusing me no end. Any assistance, or guidance where to try would be very much appreciated.

[hayfield]

I have a 44xx instruction sheet which I think is much the same as the 45xx. These kist are very basic I have been building up etched chassis to replace the Keyser ones as they are very much of their time, many think the 70's series was better than its predecessor the 80's series, certainly the motors were better and the wheels were quartered. Check out the frames as in stamping out the axle holes they tended to turn banana shape,

 

Hope this helps, if you are still confused I could take a photo of the chassis