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And commissioned by George Dow, whose son Andrew is/was heavily involved in the Tornado project.

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Pre-grouping is absolutely fascinating. The earlier it was, the more detached from the current world it seems. Locos with brakes on the tender only, no brakes on most coaches - never mind no continuous brakes, primitive signalling........ and so it goes on. The danger is spending so much time studying it that you forget about modelling altogether! ;)

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Very pleased to see a sub-section devoted to pre-grouping railways, an area much ignored and a million miles away from todays sterile railway scene.

 

My own interest is the Hull & Barnsley Railway. I'm in the process of building a Scale 7 layout rejoicing in the name of 'Staircliffe Exchange Sidings', which is a fictitious location in the Barnsley area which has interchange sidings handling traffic off the Great Central Railway. The period I'm modelling is c.1908. A major feature of the layout will be a locomotive servicing facility, where the locomotives off westbound goods trains will be turned before returning east towards Hull.

 

I would love to hear what other pre-grouping railways other forum members are modelling or planning to model.

 

Davey

Hi Davey,

 

I too have been building in S7 but I favour the Glasgow & South Western circa 1906.   I have followed the Sou' West since I was 13, firstly in 4mm and now in 7mm.   My layout, 'Auchlin' iss based on a secondary line with colliery transfer sidings which gives me the excuse to build a few models of my other interest, Industrial locomotives, The layout was on the circuit for a few years but I retired it about 7 years ago and it is now installed in the loft. Most of my modelling now is  locomotives but there are plans to add a loco shed to let me display some of the locos currently kept in boxes.

 

I have to admit to liking almost all of the Pre grouping railways, there are locos I would like to build, but there is never enough time.  I am taken by the 0-8-0s on the H&B, designed I think by Mathew Stirling, son of Patrick, who cut his teeth on the G&SWR.  Some day perhaps. 

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian

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Pre-grouping is absolutely fascinating. The earlier it was, the more detached from the current world it seems. Locos with brakes on the tender only, no brakes on most coaches - never mind no continuous brakes, primitive signalling........ and so it goes on. The danger is spending so much time studying it that you forget about modelling altogether! ;)

 

One of the problems with the early stuff is that a lot of the really interesting material is hidden away because nobody thought it odd at the time. Things like piping out of trains (as was done with stagecoaches) are not really documented in many places.

 

"    The first arrangements as to passenger-traffic were of a very primitive character, being mainly copied from the old stage-coach system.  The passengers were "booked" at the railway office, and their names were entered in a way-bill which was given to the guard when the train started.  Though the usual stage-coach bugleman could not conveniently accompany the passengers, the trains were at first played out of the terminal stations by a lively tune performed by a trumpeter at the end of the platform, and this continued to be done at the Manchester Station until a comparatively recent date." (Written in 1868)

 

Thats from the introduction to the revised edition of Smiles "The Life of George Stephenson" which also has some wonderful drawings of things like the roundhouse at Camden. In fact from a railway perspective it's far more interesting that the book proper !

 

http://gerald-massey.org.uk/smiles/b_stephenson.htm

 

 

Happy distractions :mosking:

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May I suggest that a list of links to the various line societies would be useful? I am more than ready to undertake this task myself, but thought I would ask for 'permission' in case anyone else is already working on the same task.

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Hi Davey,

 

I too have been building in S7 but I favour the Glasgow & South Western circa 1906.   I have followed the Sou' West since I was 13, firstly in 4mm and now in 7mm.   My layout, 'Auchlin' iss based on a secondary line with colliery transfer sidings which gives me the excuse to build a few models of my other interest, Industrial locomotives, The layout was on the circuit for a few years but I retired it about 7 years ago and it is now installed in the loft. Most of my modelling now is  locomotives but there are plans to add a loco shed to let me display some of the locos currently kept in boxes.

 

I have to admit to liking almost all of the Pre grouping railways, there are locos I would like to build, but there is never enough time.  I am taken by the 0-8-0s on the H&B, designed I think by Mathew Stirling, son of Patrick, who cut his teeth on the G&SWR.  Some day perhaps. 

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

 

Good to see another of the less popular lines, i.e. the G&SWR mentioned.  As you rightly say Patrick, Matthew's father, began on the Souwest, as of course did Patrick's  cousin, James Stirling, who left the Souwest to take up the position of Locomotive Superintendent of the SER in March 1878. I've always been attracted by the lines of Stirling locomotives. You're right in saying that Matthew designed the 'A' class 0-8-0's on the H&BR, and one of them is on my list of loco's to build for my layout. 

 

If you're the Ian I think you are, I've seen a couple of your G&SWR loco's on display at the annual Guildex exhibition at Telford in recent years and was very impressed with your modelling. Keep up the good work.

 

Best wishes,

 

Davey

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May I suggest that a list of links to the various line societies would be useful? I am more than ready to undertake this task myself, but thought I would ask for 'permission' in case anyone else is already working on the same task.

Poggy,

 

here's another; the LNWR Society, whose publications are a great asset to the modeller

 

http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/, .

 

There is a helpful section listing what's available for the LNWR modeller , a lot of which also is suitable for the LMS and BR(M) http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Modelling/index.php

 

Jol

Edited by LNWRmodeller

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Hi Ian,

 

Good to see another of the less popular lines, i.e. the G&SWR mentioned.  As you rightly say Patrick, Matthew's father, began on the Souwest, as of course did Patrick's  cousin, James Stirling, who left the Souwest to take up the position of Locomotive Superintendent of the SER in March 1878. I've always been attracted by the lines of Stirling locomotives. You're right in saying that Matthew designed the 'A' class 0-8-0's on the H&BR, and one of them is on my list of loco's to build for my layout. 

 

If you're the Ian I think you are, I've seen a couple of your G&SWR loco's on display at the annual Guildex exhibition at Telford in recent years and was very impressed with your modelling. Keep up the good work.

 

Best wishes,

 

Davey

Hi Davey,

 

Perhaps not one of the 'Popular' railways but at least I get to build models which will not be copied by the RTR brigade.

 

Can I correct you on the Stirling dynasty, James was younger brother of Patrick, both sons of Rev Stirling who invented the 'Stirling cycle' hot air engine. Mathew was the son of Patrick as you say.  All three produced good looking engines with that family resemblance.

 

Yes I have had a wee bit of success at Guildex,

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian

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My enthusiasm is for the Rhymney Railway and I am at last planning a small EM layout. Now I am retired I cannot use work as an excuse.

 

For line societies there is the Welsh Railways Research Circle (wrrc.org.uk) which has a good magazine, a newsletter and a quite big archive (known as the resource) as well as a lot of photos.

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For those of a GWR persuasion, and living in the County that Used to Be Avon, this slideshow by Canon Brian Arman will be well worth seeing.

Best wishes

Eric

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I have just stumbled across this forum, mainly because I am ill and so have read through all my usual threads and had got bored.  Have found the links on the 'Links Thread' useful and have already book marked a couple.

 

My interests, well, umm, yes, er Narrow Gauge.  I plan to build a narrow gauge railway set in mid Wales in 1895.  If you look really carefully you can see the resort of Traeth Mawr just north of Barmouth.  The feeder line for the railway was of course the Cambrian so I have read much on this, but have just found through one of your links another Christmas present.  Being interested in both narrow gauge and the Cambrian in the late Victorian period has brought on an interest in 4 and 6 wheel coaches. 

 

My wife's grandparents lived in Faversham so I have an interest in the LCDR, she came from High Wycombe so the old GWR line is of interest and although now I have moved out of London I have spent many hours of my life travelling on the Underground so have an interest in the old District/ Circle lines etc.  (My old next door neighbour told me that when he was a kid he go on the circle line and bout a ticket to the next stop but went the other way round.  He was caught out by the fact that he kept looking out at the engine and so his face got covered in soot.  I knew he was old but I had not realised until recently that he was older than I thought.)

 

We have recently moved and until we get our extension built I am not sure how much space I will be allowed in the spare bedroom, (as much as I want as long as we have space for a double bed and people to stay).  This will be at least the narrow gauge and maybe enough for the standard gauge as well.  If not I have suggested a pack away standard gauge.  This will probably be Cambrian but who knows.  I had thought of having removable station buildings for different railways but the Cambrian rail layout is very distinctive.

 

My modelling skills are limited to plastic and glueing brass so stock will be interesting.  I will visit this forum often.

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Hello Chris

Welcome to the forum. We are a friendly lot and there is a lot of advice and experience

amongst the various participants to tap into for when you have a query.

Anyway - enjoy!

Michael

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The C. Hamilton Ellis paintings are certainly vivid, and illustrative of the variety of pre-Grouping liveries, but they should not be regarded as accurate. The notorious illustration of a L&NWR Southern Division Large Bloomer in a red livery is the most blatant example - based on no historical evidence whatsoever.  

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Hello - I've just joined and made a beeline for this sub-forum as my main modelling interest are the pre-group railways of West Cumberland (as was), primarily the Maryport & Carlisle, The Cleator & Workington and the Furness (ans some minor lines such as the LNWR and the NER...). I'm just getting ready for my first exhibition at Solrail 2013  in Workington next month and have a bare track on baseboardsEM gauge model based on Mealsgate. I've a fair amount of mostly scratchbuilt stock [there has been only ever been one kit for the M&CR - the Furness is doing well by comparison !) so I'll look at posting some pictures if anyone's interested    

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Glad to see this one starting up!

 

You can count me in as another GCR follower although I have also modelled some other bits too (see current BRM for Tickhill & Wadworth - pregrouping SYJR).

 

My main project at the minute is the restoration of a certain well known GCR layout but I am also making slow progress on my own exhibition layout including work just started on an 11B (LNER D9).

 

I also dabble in LNWR and Midland for Narrow Road, set just after the grouping but with much stock still in the old colours and in GNR with my Mansfield GN layout..

 

Lovely stuff.........

 

Tony



Hello - I've just joined and made a beeline for this sub-forum as my main modelling interest are the pre-group railways of West Cumberland (as was), primarily the Maryport & Carlisle, The Cleator & Workington and the Furness (ans some minor lines such as the LNWR and the NER...). I'm just getting ready for my first exhibition at Solrail 2013  in Workington next month and have a bare track on baseboardsEM gauge model based on Mealsgate. I've a fair amount of mostly scratchbuilt stock [there has been only ever been one kit for the M&CR - the Furness is doing well by comparison !) so I'll look at posting some pictures if anyone's interested    

 

Yes please!!!!!

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Hello - I've just joined and made a beeline for this sub-forum as my main modelling interest are the pre-group railways of West Cumberland (as was), primarily the Maryport & Carlisle, The Cleator & Workington and the Furness (ans some minor lines such as the LNWR and the NER...). I'm just getting ready for my first exhibition at Solrail 2013 in Workington next month and have a bare track on baseboardsEM gauge model based on Mealsgate. I've a fair amount of mostly scratchbuilt stock [there has been only ever been one kit for the M&CR - the Furness is doing well by comparison !) so I'll look at posting some pictures if anyone's interested

Yes please. It's a very interesting part of the world, railway-wise
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...... The Wirral Railway is an unusual choice and seems to have entirely escaped the attention of modellers - unless anyone knows otherwise? ...

Not Entirely, I have a box Van with 'W' 'R' on the sides, but due to lose of most of my railway photo's on PC - major crash - I don't have a photo to hand at present.

 

I had a query at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/34474-would-like-wirral-railway-goods-stock-livery/ and worked on from there.

 

I have a few odd company wagons on my LNWR layout such as here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/818-ewyurly-wagon/ and apart from Devynock, a friends Neath & Brecon layout yet to be seen in the press, I think I have the only other N&BRly van modelled too.

 

I have a 1917 Railway Year Book, which lists the quantity of stock of all the railways, and thus I know if they had any vans etc., or at least it's close enough for my modelling needs.

Edited by Penlan
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I have a few odd company wagons on my LNWR layout such as here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/818-ewyurly-wagon/ and apart from Devynock, a friends Neath & Brecon layout yet to be seen in the press, I think I have the only other N&BRly van modelled too.

I can't compete with those. The best that I can offer are a couple of opens - one from the Eastern and Midland Railway and the other from the Swindon, Marlborough and Andover.

Best wishes

Eric

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Hello - I've just joined and made a beeline for this sub-forum as my main modelling interest are the pre-group railways of West Cumberland (as was), primarily the Maryport & Carlisle, The Cleator & Workington and the Furness (ans some minor lines such as the LNWR and the NER...). I'm just getting ready for my first exhibition at Solrail 2013  in Workington next month and have a bare track on baseboardsEM gauge model based on Mealsgate. I've a fair amount of mostly scratchbuilt stock [there has been only ever been one kit for the M&CR - the Furness is doing well by comparison !) so I'll look at posting some pictures if anyone's interested    

 

But have you counted the kit for this WC&ER coach?

 

post-1730-0-90460300-1383127367_thumb.jpg

Edited by billbedford
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One of the little bits of data I have hanging about (taken 2 days to find it .....) is this extract from the GWR Lecture nad Debating Society meeting in Nov 1920.

 

It is what it says, a (RCH?) census of all wagons at a Station, though Bristol sounds very wide sweeping for the RCH who are very precise with locations for demurrage charges etc.,  - I don't have access to the original of this document and for clarity I have copied it into Excel - If anybody wants a copy, let me know.

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One of the little bits of data I have hanging about (taken 2 days to find it .....) is this extract from the GWR Lecture nad Debating Society meeting in Nov 1920.

 

It is what it says, a (RCH?) census of all wagons at a Station, though Bristol sounds very wide sweeping for the RCH who are very precise with locations for demurrage charges etc.,  - I don't have access to the original of this document and for clarity I have copied it into Excel - If anybody wants a copy, let me know.

 

Click on the image for a bigger view......

post-6979-0-52445000-1383153251_thumb.jpg

Edited by Penlan
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I don't know which company the S.J.C is, I assume the C. is for Committee, and J. possibly Joint.

If it was the S & D J Rly, then according to my 1917 Railway Year Book there were only 3 Wagons on the Duplicate list belonging to the S & D J Rly specifically, all other wagon stock having been divided between the Midland and LSWR in 1914.
 

I can't find anything closer in the Year Book, and there are some very minor Rlys and Joint railways listed there.

 

PS - If you have access to the original, you will notice the final column etc., is one digit out, they forgot to list the Met. open wagon in the final column.

 

....and back to my photo of a E.& W.Y.U.Rly wagon on the Central Wales Line, well if it got to Bristol, why not Swansea.....

and somewhere on my layout is a N.L.Rly open wagon too, a nod to a great modeller, the late Geoff Williams and 'Aylesbury'.

Edited by Penlan

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I wonder if C = Cripple, as in requiring repairs?


 


A wild guess, but could SJC be the Great Western and Midland Joint Committee (Severn Wye & Severn Bridge Railway) ?

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Hi Penlan,

 

It could mean, C = Cripple,

that could be as simple as a 'hot-box'

or more serious damage.

But, ultimately, not fit to continue on

it's journey.

 

Jeff

 

Edit. Armchair Modeller beat me to it!

Edited by [email protected]

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