N Gauge Wagons - PXA / FEA-(BEFS) / KTA / KFA / Binliners

[njee20]

Brilliant! Every time I'm on Shapeways I nearly end up buying some KFAs and KTAs, I'll have to add a rake of MJAs to the list of things to try and avoid!

[Vonzack]

Hi Guys,

 

It's been slow going with this part of the hobby, but I've had a few test prints come back over the past month or so that I've sprayed up to show progress.

 

ISO Containers

 

I've received the test prints for the ISO Containers (20' / 40' / 45' Cube and Hi Cube) and I think these have come out pretty well considering they have been produced in SLS (laser sintered). As you can see from the pictures they look quite effective. The detail required for the door has pushed the limits of the machine though and this hasn't come out so well, but still reasonable all things considered.

 

 

 

 

FEAs / KFAs

 

I've also been experimenting, printing some of my earlier wagons in SLS rather than FUD and I've been quite pleased with the results.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only non-printed parts being the Wheelsets (Parkside) and Couplings (Dapol).

 

MJAs

 

After my last test print of the MJA, I had to have a major re-think with regards to the couplings and the drawbar mechanism which joins the pair. I'd originally wanted to use chassis mounted couplings, but these ended up way to close to the bogies and fouled them badly, so I had to re-design the outer bogies so that the Dapol NEM Pockets would fit. I'm pretty pleased with the results, however the fit is a bit tight and I need to add some tolerance in there to get a nice fit. The drawbar was also originally designed to be a hook and loop, but this was hopeless. I've ended up switching to a drawbar that has pins fitted in each end. First impressions are that this is a better solution, but it will mean that the pair are permanently coupled. The fitting of the pins may also be a bit fiddly for the more 'ham fisted', so I may live with the prototype for a little while to see how it performs ;-)

 

 

 

 

Cheers, Mark.

 

 

 

 

[porkie]

B

 

I used my fingers to break out some of the struts then a pair of side cutters to get them cut back close to the body.

A knife removed the remainder flush to the body. The material is fairly soft so you have to be careful not to dig into the body.

 

The bogies are a bit too low to allow them to swing enough for my fiddleyard so I will pack the underside of the body with some micro strip.

Regards

Ian

Hi Ian.

 

Just out of interest. What blue paint did you use for the kta wagon?

 

Phil

Edited December 3, 2015 by porkie

[roundhouse]

Phil

 

I cant remember now.

 

If you are weathering them it wont make too much difference what colour you use.

 

Ian

[Vonzack]

Hi,

 

It's been a very long time since I posted anything on this thread, so my apologies for that, but I've been doing the odd bit here and there recently so I have a couple of things to show.

 

IIA-C Biomass Doors (GBRf)

 

I've been interested in trying to model a Biomass train for while now. As I had some Farish IIA coal hoppers, these could be used as long as I produced some hopper doors for them. I didn't really want to have to alter the wagons, as it was my intention to swap them from Coal duties to Biomass by just changing a 'load' if possible. The only complication being the lifting gear that sits on the ends of the wagons as these would have to be removed with the 'load'.

 

After taking some measurements I had a test print done in WSF to see how things would look. I really wasn't expecting the lift gear to print as it was so fine, but it did and it actually looked pretty good all things considered. The only problem I had was that the hopper doors weren't thick enough and sat well below the top of the wagon. When you look at the prototype, the hopper doors are raised slightly from the sides of the wagon, so this meant a little re-design.

 

 

As I was pretty sure of the dimensions, I decided to do another test print in FUD from Shapeways. I knew the lift gear probably wouldn't survive being printed using this method and the fact that it hangs down so far would increase the volume and make the print very expensive, so I decided to detach it and print it on the underside of the model.

 

 

 

When I got the test print, I was pleased to see that the lift gear had made it, but in FUD it was desperately flimsy. I'd even doubled up the lift gear expecting a breakage, but I ended up losing both sets of them, one during removal and the other while spraying. The hopper doors had worked out perfectly, they just needed to be a tiny bit wider to nicely fill the opening on the wagon.

 

 

I've just re-ordered another test print to take advantage of the free shipping at Shapeways and I've thickened up the lift gear arms, not too much, but hopefully just enough so that they can be handled without breaking.

 

PXA / JXA

 

A while back someone asked me if I'd look at producing a PXA / JXA hopper wagon and at the time got a little confused with the various different versions that there seemed to be with that TOPS code. I'd have to say I'm still a little confused, but I've produced two basic types which when you look at reference pictures always seem to have a JXA TOPS code, even when they were painted up as 'Sheerness Steel' wagons.

 

I'm calling this style V1 and have also designed bogies for it

 

This is the first time I've designed closed end bogies, so will have to see how this affects the running and how easy it is to fit the wheelsets.

 

This style is V2, I still need to design the bogies for this version.

 

FEA-F (RHTT) / KFA (Binliner)

 

I've finally got round to painting up some of my own wagons, here we have an FEA-F which is going to be used on one of 3DR's RHTT sets and a KFA which is going to be used to model a Manchester Binliner operated by Viridor.

 

 

 

 

Cheers, Mark.

 

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Mark,

 

The biomass "lid" for the GBRf hopper looks very good, but how easy are the end parts to remove?  The seem from the CAD you have posted to be tucked underneath and inside those edge lips, which looks as if it might make getting at them with a scalpel tricky.... I wondered whether, for a commerical product, spruing up a group of, say, 5 units together, with the actuators actually in position on the ends, might be more effective?

 

Having said that, I have never done any CAD drawings for Shapeways so I am not sure whether this is right nor not..

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Revolution Mike]

Hi Mark

 

I've got an etch drawn up somewhere for the biomass doors, but the part I haven't got round to yet was drawing an etch for the ends (there are two types of IIA and Farish produced the "wrong" one for the biomass conversion unless some more have been converted now).

 

Cheers, Mike

[bigP]

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Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Vonzack]

@Ben A - It's actually not that bad, you can get a scalpel in there to cut the spure's. Now that I've thickened up the lift gear it should be easier to handle. I take your point about doing them separately or adding them under the doors. Shapeways has an interesting pricing policy, there is a charge for FUD for each item, so you have to connect the parts together with sprues. A volume charge for the material, so you try and use as little as possible. A machine space charge if they can't place other models into the bounding area of your print. Then finally a handling charge if what you're printing is going to be difficult to handle.

 

If I join the lift gear to the ends of the print, it would make the bounding volume quite large, probably difficult to handle and it would make the print too costly. I doubt they'd ship too well like that as well, even though Shapeways take a great deal of care with things. Printing the Lift Gear separately would probably be a good compromise. I'll see how I get on.

 

@Mike - an etch for the Lift Gear would probably be a good way to go. I'd considered just shaping some wire into the 'W' shape just to provide an effect of the gear and it may be that's an option for people who want some doors. Are there differences with the Farish model or is it just the livery that was applied to them?

 

@bigP - I print all my bogies in Shapeways Strong and Flexible plastics and these seem to work quite well, even though the detail is a bit rough. How do you cope with the pinpoint axles in FUD? Do you design space in the bogie sides for Top Hat bearings?

 

Cheers, Mark. 

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Mark,

 

I can see what you mean about configuring the design as efficiently as possible - fair enough.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

PS I have sent you a PM re FEA-F and a couple of other thngs.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Ben A

[njee20]

Got a growing number of kits to build now, they all look bloody good, very impressed! Ian's completed KTA looks great - don't suppose you remember where the transfers came from Ian?

 

Did you ever release the containers Mark? I was trawling Shapeways for some at the weekend, irks me that they're all much the same height in a train - it's so obvious on the real thing how much they vary.

[Vonzack]

@njee20 - Yeah, I finished them off and produced some test prints which are great, but in my opinion they work out a little expensive in FUD, the 45' is £20, 40' Hi Cube is £19, 40' Cube is £18, 20' Hi Cube is £13 and the 20' Cube is £12.50. I bundled the containers together to reduce the price for my prints, so if you know what type and how many you'd need I'd be happy to sprue them together.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[njee20]

Mmm, that is quite expensive, shame! I'm guessing that spruing them together won't reduce the unit cost by that much?

 

Would be after say 2 of the 40' Hi-cube and 3 of the 20' hi-cube, please don't do any work on my part though unless you'd expect to get that lot to be c£40 or so once combined?

 

Had wondered about using the Arnold or Walthers 1:160 ones for a bit of variation, they're less obsolete (ficticious?!) than some of the Farish liveries, but not sure if they'd look daft on a 1:148 wagon. Sorry, heresy on this sub-forum I know!

 

Cheers,

Nick

[arran]

Mmm, that is quite expensive, shame! I'm guessing that spruing them together won't reduce the unit cost by that much?

 

Would be after say 2 of the 40' Hi-cube and 3 of the 20' hi-cube, please don't do any work on my part though unless you'd expect to get that lot to be c£40 or so once combined?

 

Had wondered about using the Arnold or Walthers 1:160 ones for a bit of variation, they're less obsolete (ficticious?!) than some of the Farish liveries, but not sure if they'd look daft on a 1:148 wagon. Sorry, heresy on this sub-forum I know!

 

Cheers,

Nick

HI All

 

You dont really get 20ft HC containers going by rail, I've taken more pics than most of containers and I have only seen 1 , and the ones you do get tend to be pallet wide boxs.

 

Regards Arran 

[bigP]

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Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[Vonzack]

@njee20 - It's not a problem, will only take 5mins and I'm kind of interested to know anyway. You do avoid the per piece FUD charge, so it might be close. I have a foot in the American camp too and the 1:160 containers are surprisingly smaller than the 1:148 versions.

 

@bigP - Yeah I see what you mean. I guess I'm worried about the pintpoint axles running in the FUD Material more than anything, so it would be great to hear how you get on with them over time. I might have a go at printing some of my bogies in FUD and see how they wear over time.

 

Just had confirmation from Shapeways that the test prints for the Biomass Hopper Doors and the PXA / JXA have been shipped, so should know what's what in a few days.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[Revolution Mike]

@Mike - an etch for the Lift Gear would probably be a good way to go. I'd considered just shaping some wire into the 'W' shape just to provide an effect of the gear and it may be that's an option for people who want some doors. Are there differences with the Farish model or is it just the livery that was applied to them?

 

Yes, the differences are the corrugated end panels changed in the different batches from many small ridges (as Farish modelled) to fewer larger ridges (the batch converted to biomass I think).

 

Martyn Read's photos are excellent (as always!):

 

Comparison shot - HYA/IIA-A left and IIA-C (prior to conversion) right: https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/I/IIA-Hoppers/IIA-bogie-coal-hoppers/i-THV2gBX/A

 

Original coal hopper (as modelled by Farish is the same as the HYA): https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/I/IIA-Hoppers/IIA-bogie-coal-hoppers/i-SKbdq26/A

Biomass hopper: https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/I/IIA-Hoppers/IIA-C-Biomass-covered-hoppers/i-63mTJP2/A

 

Cheers, Mike

[Vonzack]

@Mike, Ah see what you mean, it's quite obvious from those photos, thanks for that.

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

Now that the cats out of the bag with the Revolution KFA. Could the binliner containers be done cheaper?

 

If they can hit a reasonable price point then I'd go for 10 or 20.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Vonzack]

Hi John,

 

I crossed the post with a PM prompted by Revolutions PFA announcement, so apologies for that.

 

The problem with the containers is the volume of material and machine space they take up just makes then so expensive. Trust me, this is something I'm struggling with too as I want to put together a Manchester BinLiner train. They are usually around 14 to 16 wagons and this would work out at around £400 for the containers alone with them printed in FUD.

 

If anybody has any ideas how these could be produced economically then please PM me, I would welcome any suggestions.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[Revolution Mike]

Hi Mark

 

Print a master and then cast them? (or convince a someone who dabbles in casting to do it!).

 

I'll PM you!

 

Cheers, Mike

[jpendle]

Hi John,

 

I crossed the post with a PM prompted by Revolutions PFA announcement, so apologies for that.

 

The problem with the containers is the volume of material and machine space they take up just makes then so expensive. Trust me, this is something I'm struggling with too as I want to put together a Manchester BinLiner train. They are usually around 14 to 16 wagons and this would work out at around £400 for the containers alone with them printed in FUD.

 

If anybody has any ideas how these could be produced economically then please PM me, I would welcome any suggestions.

 

Cheers, Mark.

Hi Mark,

 

I wondered about the PM! Anyway I replied to that but might as well put it out here as well. Would it be cheaper to make the boxes as a kit of 6 parts?

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Vonzack]

Aha, gone and done it again with the PMs ;-)

 

Yes, I'm thinking about flattening out the container, printing the sides and ends, so that it can be built back up. I'm pretty sure that will still be expensive in terms of 3D Printing, but hopefully it might be something that can used to make a cast for resin.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[jpendle]

And there's me, thinking I'm special!!!

 

John P

[Vonzack]

Hi Guys,

 

Needs a bit more detailing for the side stakes that could be fitted, but I think this is pretty much the 30' flat Container discussed in Revolutions PFA/KFA thread. The version in the photos only seems to have one end and looks like the other was removable. They seem to be used in pairs on the KFAs with missing ends being placed in the centre of the wagon. Any info or corrections on the design welcome.

 

 

There are a few versions of these containers that I've come across while looking for pics, some had both ends fitted and some were also stackable, so once I've got the detail correct on this one, I'll do those as well.

 

Cheers, Mark.