What determines how long you stay at a layout at an exhibition?

[Ramblin Rich]

Sadly, It`s moreoften a case of how long I can tolerate having my toes trodden-upon and being nudged in the chest and face by blokes wearing enormous rucksacks, whom seemingly have no sense of their-own proprioception.

proprioception

Now THERE's a word I never thought I'd see in a model railway forum post!

As to the question - it's difficult, some layouts in my chosen era / guage just don't seem to have the necessary ambience to keep my attention; the ones I've really stopped and looked at tend to be presented at or near chest height so I don't feel I'm waching from a helicopter, with good lighting avoiding shadows on the backscene. I want to feel that I'm 'in' the scene if possible. DCC sound does add something in my mind, as long as it's not overpowering and also makes the operations seem more realistic. Having a train motionless in a platform seems to make more sense if there's an engine idling - it's not dead, it's just waiting. Sound also makes things seem right when accelerating / deccelerating - provided the engine sounds are matched to the way the train is behaving. Operators who are able & willing to interact are also a big plus - I love having a conversation, hoping I'm not distracting too much - in a way, the smaller layouts with less rigid operations can score here. Oh and sadly I have to be without the kiddies as they just don't have the patience to stand around while daddy rambles on!

I'd definitely give the thumbs up to expo or RMweb events all told as they score highly on every aspect (not sucking up either!)

[Baby Deltic]

I don't like layouts which are so clean you could eat your dinner off of them. The same goes for stock.Railways are not clean places, and buildings, infrastructure and rolling stock get dirty and weather over time.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

An interesting subject.

 

I like interesting layouts...either in subject or execution. Imaginitive layouts can hold my intetest, irrespective of era, country or region. I also appreciate layouts that have convincing scenery.

 

I get frustrated with militant 'Rule 1', save for end of show fun. Particularly if r-t-r stuff is used, is it really that hard to try to make an effort to be even vaguely faithful to the region and era portrayed? 'Thomas' and drive your own kids layouts excepted.

[Grampus]

In terms of subject matter I find my interests have changed over time: years ago I would have headed straight to the BR blue diesel layouts or anything with a Southern or S&D theme.  These days I find I am less concerned about the specific subject material and more by the quality of the modelling, irrespective of scale, time frame or location. Good modelling, well observed detail, thoughtful operation and, of course, a friendly operator will always win out for me.

 

Regards,

 

Paul

[Jongudmund]

Friendly operators/creators, especially if I ask how they've done something and are willing to give me a full answer.

 

I'm not a huge fan of big scenic lay-outs. Fields of sheep stretching the length of the room either side of a four track mainline is a bit dull. A micro-layout industrial shunting puzzle is far more interesting to me. But maybe that's just me.

 

Also, anything in a an unusual gauge.

[OnTheBranchline]

Should I feel intimidated after reading the answers here if I try to construct my own exhibition layout?

[Suzie]

What will keep my attention:-

 

Any N-gauge layout with track radius greater than 9" at both ends (very rare, especially continental!)

 

Anything that depicts something that is in my lifetime that I can relate to, especially something I have seen.

 

An unusual prototype that is rarely modelled.

 

Anything that has something of outstanding interest to have a chat about.

 

Any layout with good operating (exceptionally rare). If I see a DC controller in use (increasingly less common fortunately) I tend to move along more quickly before the inevitable jerky start, stop or poke with a finger occurs to spoil my illusion.

 

Something happening will always help. I can wait two minutes for a station stop, but more than that is a waste of time. An apology from the operators about any delay will of course keep me a bit longer, but not indefinitely. A busy layout will keep my attention much better than one with no potential for activity no matter how well modelled it is.

 

Working signals are just a complete magnet. seeing a signal change means I have to wait until the movement completes, I cannot help it, I have to stay!

 

Solenoids irritate me a little, knowing the sound a real point changing makes means that only the prototype sound or silence will do. I am not completely intolerant since I understand it was hard to have anything else, until recently I had no idea where to buy slow motion motors myself, but solenoids do tend to spoil the illusion and make me move on a little quicker than I might otherwise.

 

Same old boring branch line terminus will make me walk by, it is something that has been done to death and whatever is done on a branch line terminus I am sure I have seen it before, especially on a flat baseboard, if not it will definitely feel like it! I might think again if you model Braintree with a 12-car AC EMU terminating and a 37 on a fertilizer train because at least it will be a reasonable sized layout and unusual and there is likely to be something actually moving.

[Suzie]

Should I feel intimidated after reading the answers here if I try to construct my own exhibition layout?

 

No, because all the mistakes have already been made and listed in this post! Find a subject that has not been done before, try not to compromise and make sure that what you intend will be entertaining.

[grahame]

An interesting thread and question.

 

My comments are, apart from the obvious personal interest things (era, location, scale, etc) and the corresponding opposites that put one off (like only steamy rural subjects in my case) the things that make me stay are 

 

* Uncrowded and comfortable viewing - such as a barrier to rest against and unrestricted views.

* Overall layout finish standards like lighting (two spots up a pole is a no-no IMO), decent back-scene board, drapes, etc.

* Good modelling and in particular overall consistency, fine details and not just scenery composed of the usual RTP suspects or Metcalfe kits. 

* Interesting (unusual but realistic) layout design with the track part of the landscape (not just plonked on a flat board).

* Activity (running trains) is actually quite a low requirement in my personal list but poorer layout quality tends to be offset by increased running activity and interesting stock.

 

G.

[Dale]

What keep's me there?

 

• Good standard of modelling which i can be inspired by, full of detail and suitably weathered - a model that looks like the real world as it is, or was back then.
• Something moving most of the time, even just a yard shunter playing chess with the wagons.  
• Operator's who have the social grace to make eye contact, smile and even answer the same question an hundred others before me have asked with patience and tolerance.
• Solid leaning barriers

 

 

What sends me packing:

• The bloke next to me reeking of unwashed clothes or worse
• Unrealistic or poor loco movements - slaming into coaching stock/wagons, acceleration, the emergency stop tea in the lap stuff etc
• Continual hand of god to 'give it a little push bob'
• Lack of prep - that tree is leaning over, that wall's cap stones have lifted up, it's covered in dust/spiders.  All stuff where, if possible before the show, a good case of looking at and a few liberal quick fixes could have made a difference.

 

At RailEx this year i watched Wibdenshaw for an age... well at least an hour...

[trisonic]

When I first looked at the title of this thread - I thought it was a bit daft.

It's actually very interesting!

I think it has been twenty five years since I managed to attend an exhibition in the UK (at the old Teacher's Training College in Brentwood, Essex could be even longer, I remember that building being built and now it is demolished).

 

Best, Pete.

[Debs.]

A piccy taken at Watford Finescale this year. There's a railway in there somewhere:

 

 

  ...........and there`s one of those blinkin` rucksacks!

 

"It`s a visit to a model railway show, not a trek up the Eiger!"

[Baby Deltic]

  ...........and there`s one of those blinkin` rucksacks!

 

"It`s a visit to a model railway show, not a trek up the Eiger!"

He's got to have somewhere to put his Tresemme and male grooming products.

[Stubby47]

Should I feel intimidated after reading the answers here if I try to construct my own exhibition layout?

No, no and thrice no !

 

Build what you want to exhibit, to the standards you can achieve, and it will be far more than 80% of your viewers will have done !

 

Reading some of the answers above makes me realise how diverse our collective requirements are. For example 'always having movement' would probably rule out 'Catcott Burtle', long fields of sheep would excluded BCB, 'anything not my scale/era/gauge/region' could mean not one layout at a show would be of interest.

 

However, I can always find some aspect of every layout which makes at least a 5 minute watch necessary, but I can't put my finger on what it would be in general - every layout is different and has it's own draw.

[Stubby47]

Rucksacks... you try taking two very keen young boys round an exhibition, maybe one with special needs, carrying their drinks & food, any purchases you might have made and a step or two for them to stand on, all without a rucksack and see how you get on.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Should I feel intimidated after reading the answers here if I try to construct my own exhibition layout?

No, but for the construction of an exhibition layout, it also has to be interesting for you. Don't forget, your visitors can wander on after a couple of minutes. You are with it all day.

[fallen]

No one has mentioned the speed of the trains.

 

I do not like to see trains running far too fast to be prototypical, I like to see them running slowly and so gradually wind their way around the layout so you can watch them. And slow trains are visible for longer, whereas if you have fast trains, if you blink they have gone, so to maintain interest you need to have another one ready to rush out when the first has disappeared round the last curve and in to the fiddle yard.

 

So slow trains are more interesting, more prototypical, and make it easier on the operator.

 

Of course you need track that is good enough and reliable locos.

 

Frank

[Debs.]

Rucksacks... you try taking two very keen young boys round an exhibition, maybe one with special needs, carrying their drinks & food, any purchases you might have made and a step or two for them to stand on, all without a rucksack and see how you get on.

With the greatest of respect; that (clearly-worthy) scenario is not representative of my experience: most oversize-rucksacks seem to be worn (as shopping caddies) by lone male visitors; simply to leave their hands free.

Anyhoo, It`s the 'behaviour' that`s the issue.........clumsy/thoughtless 'reversing', lane blocking and swinging wide to make turns!

[t-b-g]

No one has mentioned the speed of the trains.

 

I do not like to see trains running far too fast to be prototypical, I like to see them running slowly and so gradually wind their way around the layout so you can watch them. And slow trains are visible for longer, whereas if you have fast trains, if you blink they have gone, so to maintain interest you need to have another one ready to rush out when the first has disappeared round the last curve and in to the fiddle yard.

 

So slow trains are more interesting, more prototypical, and make it easier on the operator.

 

Of course you need track that is good enough and reliable locos.

 

Frank

 

Very good point.

 

Ever since Frank Dyer's wonderful series on operating layouts in the MRJ (way back - issues late 20s/ early 30s) I have paid particular attention to not only the speed but also the way the speed changes. His description of how the speed of a train approching a terminus changes should be compulsory reading for all exhibition (and home) operators. Running like that on DC control is actually more enjoyable than doing it on DCC because the operator sets the rate of speed change, not a pre programmed chip.

 

With DCC, a loco on a one wagon train will accelerate just the same as the same loco on an 80 wagon train. With careful driving on DC, the operator can show the difference.

 

I always watch the speed of trains at exhibitions, looking out for the rare time when somebody actually alters the speed as a real train would speed up or slow down. Far more often, on layouts, a train is either moving or it isn't and there is no attempt to convince anybody that it is hundreds (or even thousands) of tons on the move.

 

So I agree 100% that speed is important in creating an illusion. An unfitted coal train running at 60mph will never look right. Neither will a big loco on a fully fitted freight at 15mph. Slowing a train for a signal check or prior to a diverging junction looks superb but so many times the point is changed well in advance and the signals (if they work at all) are set to clear and the trains go through without changing speed.

 

If anybody wants to argue that it is because operators don't know how the real railway ran/runs, I would just say that they are either not interested enough to want to learn or just genuinely don't care about operating as the information is all there in videos and articles like Frank Dyer's.

 

Tony

[Adam]

Good modelling, regardless of prototype preferably with a lot of the modeller's input.

 

Good quality of running; by and large, with exhibition layouts - or at least, those that go out regulary - stock tends to stay on the rails so reliable electrics are essential. I do not care whether the electrics are DCC, DC or radio control so long as it all works. Based on observational and practical experience this is perfectly achievble with any system, providing that the mechanical and basic electrical side is right. Poorly laid and cleaned track and infrequently operated locos with poorly designed, dirty or ill-maintained pick ups cannot be rescued by a chip since the electricty is not reaching the motor. Similarly, errant stock should be withdrawn from service if it doesn't work properly mechanically; i.e., if it falls off. DCC is no cure-all and I'm increasingly of the view that unless the whole operating team is familiar with it, it can be a menace: one difficult to find intermittent short can put a DCC run layout out of action for hours. When it works it's excellent but a simple DC controller is much, much easier to use.

 

Basically, as a spectator, I should not be giving this any thought whatsoever: I shouldn't notice or need to know.

 

I would agree with Tony's point about operation too. It requires thought (and possibly explanation to the audience on the part of operators if they're so inclined). What sort of train is being operated? Too many layouts seem to run everything at the same speed (often this is rather slow). When shunting, what is the point of each move?

 

An even standard; where scenery, wagons and carriages and locos (in that order) have all been treated to the same level of care and attention. Rarer that you'd think, but when it does occur, it always keeps my attention.

Adam

[coachmann]

It is 40-odd years since I attended the Manchester exhibitions at the Corn Exchange or the later venue so rucksacks weren't amongst my experiences. I went principally to meet chums, customers and colleages in the model trade. The static display models all vying for a cup or some recognition always attracted me. A large 7mm scale roundy was always fun to watch too, don't ask me why.

 

But going off what I have seen of exhibitions on Youtube,  a baseboard crammed full of track, buildings, gas works, mill, toy town curves and infantile names like Dia Reah to Pebbledash branch would cause me to get out the trusty bargepole. A mixture of eras that never could have co-existed would be another killer. If trains departed a station like a greyhound out of the stocks or made a stop that could only take place if the passengers were dead, then it would be 'goodbye'.  The reason I do not attend exhibitions?  I prefer to get away from model railways on my day off.  

[Kenton]

 

If I see a DC controller in use (increasingly less common fortunately) I tend to move along more quickly before the inevitable jerky start, stop or poke with a finger occurs to spoil my illusion.

In my experience this happens just as frequently on DCC layouts where the whole scene - often more than one loco - comes to an abrupt standstill, with frantic and often puzzled operators pressing reset switches in an attempt to find the short. The sudden silence as all the sound chips switch off silences the audience so that when they all start up again through the start up sequence everyone's attention is drawn to the cacophony. Then the hand of god on a DCC layout looks even more out of place. DCC layouts get dirty track and need that shove almost as much as DC.

 

The issue with DC (more often than not) is the trainee/guest operator who hasn't a clue how the layout is wired, cannot understand the control panel diagram and simply unaware that a point requires changing in order to get the loco they are controlling to go into the siding/loop. We have all seen the shuffle as a result. Of course DCC and computer control should put an end to this withh route selection but not many layouts have this and we do like to drive the trains.

[54Strat]

It seems if you leave one's expectations at the door, one could enjoy it all day

 

Paul

[roundhouse]

 In my experience this happens just as frequently on DCC layouts where the whole scene - often more than one loco - comes to an abrupt standstill, with frantic and often puzzled operators pressing reset switches in an attempt to find the short. The sudden silence as all the sound chips switch off silences the audience so that when they all start up again through the start up sequence everyone's attention is drawn to the cacophony. Then the hand of god on a DCC layout looks even more out of place. DCC layouts get dirty track and need that shove almost as much as DC.

 

The issue with DC (more often than not) is the trainee/guest operator who hasn't a clue how the layout is wired, cannot understand the control panel diagram and simply unaware that a point requires changing in order to get the loco they are controlling to go into the siding/loop. We have all seen the shuffle as a result. Of course DCC and computer control should put an end to this withh route selection but not many layouts have this and we do like to drive the trains.

 

I know this all too well and thats with our regular crew with even me some times looking puzzled (but normally I am ducking behind the layout to figure out the problem so viewers may not see me looking like that!).  Luckily on the layouts with sound we now have circuit breakers splitting the layout into zones so normally, not all the sound locos will cut out.

 

We have route setting but despite all this we often forget to check that its set, or even set the route. I have done this myself!!

 

Even with DC control we often forget to set the section switches or turnouts.

 

Quite often its a distraction (which there are often many at a show) that causes this. We just cant do multi tasking however much we try (i know we shoudlnt but we still do).!!

 

Ian

[LNER4479]

A well-organised team who know how to operate their layout.

 

Two examples from an exhibition yesterday of what makes me walk on to the next layout:

 

Operator 1: 'I think that point is lever 8, but I'm not sure' (wielding cloth and continually rubbing track in front of loco)

Operator 2: 'that loco is a bit sticky' (prodding it with finger when it came to an abrupt halt with the point ahead set wrong)

 

At another layout: the sight of a (beautiful) freight loco, stationary, churning its wheels furiously as it tried to push itself and short goods train against a buffer stop whilst the operator(s) were looking the other way driving another train into the station. Operator A then realised what was going on and changed the point (at the head of the siding) against the errant goods train. 30 seconds later, Operator B then sets said goods train in motion which promptly derails at the point!

 

Of course, I myself will probably commit all these sins and more when 'on the road' with my layout. Better get some reinforced windows in my glass house