Kenton Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Operating from the front is actually quite difficult to handle. The biggest failing is when that is simply a chat with a pal and not a conversation relevant to the layout. As a visitor it is interesting to eavesdrop on the discussion and then join in - easy if relevant to the layout and leads to getting to know new friends, but if about the mother-in-law or last weeks' teams' performance - irrelevant. :yawn: Once while watching a small shunting layout and the operator got involved in a long discussion with another viewer about how some feature had been built, I was obviously looking rather bored at the lack of operation and about to leave when the operator handed me the controller and said "here you keep something moving, I need a break" - other visitors soon became bored by my inability to master the 3-links but people kept watching for at least "half an hour" ... or so it seemed to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted October 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2013 It was Ab-Rail, 5 Mar 11. Pine Bluffs & Cedar Falls was certainly there so you could be right. I think the top one is the Berks N Group Modular, as I remember it being huge & we certainly really enjoyed it. The bottom is, I am almost certain, St Brayden. Right, I thought they were familiar. We took our Japanese layout to that show... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Right, I thought they were familiar. We took our Japanese layout to that show... Yamanouchi Oshika? I have only spent a very limited time in Japan, but I remember being very impressed by that layout. It was just so different & exciting. To be honest I loved all of it, remember I hadn't done so much as open a model railway magazine in over 20 years so to have all these people displaying their work was a revelation. OK I've started again with a fairly hackneyed Western Region based set up but it took going to the show to spur me on to have a pop! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 So why not operate from the front, admire the view against the backscene the public sees, and interact with the visitors? Must be better than staring them in the face in the vague hope they may come up with some easy to answer yet interesting and unusual question actually about your layout? Hi Kenton One thing that I dislike when viewing a layout is a fat bald bloke with his back to me darting from side to side with more movement than the little bit of the trains we can see through him. As a fat bald bloke I will not subject the public to one of my dislikes. Some people can manage to operate from the front very well but others do not seem so sucessful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbyandbf3fan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 So why not operate from the front, admire the view against the backscene the public sees, and interact with the visitors? Must be better than staring them in the face in the vague hope they may come up with some easy to answer yet interesting and unusual question actually about your layout? If my layout was operated from the front, I'd constantly be darting in front of people to uncouple wagons. Operating from the front only works for smaller layouts which don't require a lot of uncoupling and preferably end-end. On a roundy roundy, operating from the front wouldn't be preferable to operating from inbetween the fiddle yard and scenic section. Just my opinion anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 On Sumatra Road I've wired a controller DIN plug on the front of the layout so one controller can be operated from the front. I intend to build a shunting panel for the front roads so certain trains can be shunted into the goods depot sidings or re-marshalled in the station from the front of the layout where you can reach and see what you're doing.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Speaking as a fat bald bloke I can see no need for insults. I accept that bulk may inhibit viewing, but am unsure as to the relevance of lack of hair. I had hoped that this thread would be about positive reasons to linger at a layout rather than degenerate into yet another discussion about rucksacks and BO. By the way, we can hardly complain about the stereotyping of "train spotters" if we do it amongst ourselves. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 Answer to the OP - trying to get to the front for a proper view of BCB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Speaking as a fat bald bloke I can see no need for insults. I accept that bulk may inhibit viewing, but am unsure as to the relevance of lack of hair. I had hoped that this thread would be about positive reasons to linger at a layout rather than degenerate into yet another discussion about rucksacks and BO. By the way, we can hardly complain about the stereotyping of "train spotters" if we do it amongst ourselves. Ed I think Clive was referring to himself, Ed, not any other 'fat bald bloke' in general. Clive's previous rmweb names were 'Fat Bald Bloke' and 'Tea Boy'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yamanouchi Oshika? I have only spent a very limited time in Japan, but I remember being very impressed by that layout. It was just so different & exciting. To be honest I loved all of it, remember I hadn't done so much as open a model railway magazine in over 20 years so to have all these people displaying their work was a revelation. OK I've started again with a fairly hackneyed Western Region based set up but it took going to the show to spur me on to have a pop! Thanks! ...and from a general point of view, that is one of the purposes of an exhibition. It is a showcase for our hobby, and perhaps the most immediate way of tempting new blood or reawakening dormant interest. You will always have the really specialist shows, but for more general exhibitions a wide range of models - encompassing fully scratch-built masterpieces, to models making extensive use of ready to run and ready to plonk; labouriously researched replicas to imaginative flights of fantasy (see the opinion piece in this month's Railway Modeller) - is always a better introduction. A good show will have as wide a range of scales, eras, and countries as it can. That is why, for me, what determines a longer stay at a layout is imagination and interest. The modeller does not have to be the most skilled in the world, the stock can indeed be uniformally out of the box; it matters not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 With some of our layouts we use wireless control so can operate from the front to a certain degree (still need to round the back to be bale to see the fiddle yard). However, some times when we are out front we are in the way of viewers when is crowded, so we have to keep moving out of their way or go round the back of the layout. ALthough most we cango to one side if there is a gap between us and the next layout. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhBBob Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I love them all ! Why ? 'cos the aim is to bring others into the hobby and perfect layouts will probably drive people away ! Yes, layouts standards will be infinitely variable but somewhere on the layouts will be a idea you can steal and use ! If someone goes out the door muttering 'I could do better than that', then we have succeeded. Next month will be the last time I exhibit after 28 years; 1985 was the last time I played trains at home as every layout since then has been either too big to erect indoors or it had to be stored as I moved from room to room and out to the garage following the arrival of our Daughter and later our Son !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 You had to sleep in the garage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You had to sleep in the garage? He was driven into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 With the greatest of respect; that (clearly-worthy) scenario is not representative of my experience: most oversize-rucksacks seem to be worn (as shopping caddies) by lone male visitors; simply to leave their hands free. Anyhoo, It`s the 'behaviour' that`s the issue.........clumsy/thoughtless 'reversing', lane blocking and swinging wide to make turns! You should see the size of CK's rucksack when he turns up at Ally Pally with 40lb of parsnips stuffed in it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 I love them all ! Why ? 'cos the aim is to bring others into the hobby and perfect layouts will probably drive people away ! Yes, layouts standards will be infinitely variable but somewhere on the layouts will be a idea you can steal and use ! If someone goes out the door muttering 'I could do better than that', then we have succeeded. A friends father has a layout that was built before the days of ready to plonk buidlings but they are all kit built and the stock is not weathered. It was his first exhibition layout yet its all very well done and we have often heard comments that its amazing what you can do without scratchbuilding etc. It has given many newcomers and novices an idea of what is achievable without having TO have a lot of modelling expertise. It always has plenty of people viewing the layout at shows. He gets a little cautious of me around the layout as hes worried that I will weather all his locos whilst hes having a break!! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Just remembered one thing at a Stafford show a couple of years ago that had me walking straight away from an O gauge mpd layout. On shed was a beautiful model of Standard 4 "75029". As I stood there a second Standard 4 entered from the fiddle yard, also numbered 75029. Shockingly bad in my opinion. You ought to be look at a layout and have a fair idea of which season it's set in, but the exact date or even the year might be a bit ambiguous unless there is a "Man lands on Moon" or "King Abdicates" on a newspaper headline board (although saying you're modelling an exact date usually attracts the level of derision reserved for rivet counters). So it's easy to accept a layout's set period might be over a number of years, especially if it means certain public favourites can be included over the time period that might never have met in real life, if this includes a popular loco in different liveries then why shouldn't be included in the stocklist (although I'd agree having them out front at the same time wouldn't be good). It's a pity one of the big manufacturers hasn't yet released 47555, as it was guaranteed to appear absolutely everywhere. It would make a good limited edition twinpack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-dereham Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 as has been mentioned before, it's mainly the other visitors that make me move along. 95% 'normal', but always a few who only seem to leave home in order to visit railway exhibits and invariably possess neither manners nor a bath (apparently). otherwise I'm quite happy to spend time in front of any layout. always much to see and learn. Yes, I agree, I'm not sure why there is such a shortage of baths in some visitors homes. Particularly noted at my local exhibition (which I won't name). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 Some layouts just don't do it for me (MPD's), so I won't watch them, however as much as these are not for me other people do enjoy them. Each to there own. Beyond that I don't tend to have a fixed pattern, but if I don't see something moving quickly I tend to move on, but I will often come back and give the layout a second or third chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I usually try to research which layouts are attending so I know which ones to specially look out for. Usually, if the venue is busy, I will not linger at any layout with a large crowd around it on my first circuit of the hall. If I can comfortably view a layout I will normally stay longer if there is prototypical operation taking place, especially shunting. A well modelled scene with a good atmosphere will entertain me without much train movement. I find a that the larger the scale, the longer my attention is held without any train movement. Display boards or other information about the layout or what it tries to recreate are also interesting, (eg photos of the original). Usually a BR Blue layout in OO/EM/P4 will be more of an attraction for me, but it is nice to be 'surprised' and enjoy something very unfalmiliar. I do enjoy a chat with the owners/operators if they have time and I am not distracting them, I do try to make a point of returning to any particular favourites near the end and let them know I have enjoyed their efforts, cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted October 10, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 You know, after reading this thread, I've become more appreciative of any layouts that are at exhibitions and the owners that make the effort to make an exhibition layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've been following this topic with interest as I go to very few shows, despite having several throughout the year very close by. I suppose I extrapolate the question to "what determines if you go to an exhibition", and the answer there is that there must be at least 1 layout which is a specific attraction. That probably means Western Region BR blue - but not exclusively so. Then there will be a quick check through the list of other layouts attending (links direct from the exhibition web-site are excellent, Google is a great secondary tool, and a search on here rewards if a name seems familiar) to decide what else might get my attention. OK, this might be a very blunt tool, but it's how I decide. The location of the show is also important. Not so much whether its a school or a church hall, but which town/city it is in. As well as railways I am interested in buses, so if the show is a nice bus ride away that will improve its appeal and I'll make a day of it. Once I actually get to a show which ticks the appropriate boxes, a quick wander will usually be my approach, hunting out my prey. Hopefully there will be something else to catch my attention on the way to my target layout, and often there is. So long as there isn't a big crowd around the layout which I particularly want to see (and there rarely is as I generally only go to small, local, shows) it is likely to get 15-20 minutes of my time, gradually moving along the layout looking at different points from different angles. Then I'll have a wander, usually at least looking at every layout, and probably scanning the trade, before settling back at the layout which drew me there. Another 20 or so minutes will then probably elapse before I'll take a second wander around stopping off at any layouts which got my attention earlier, and perhaps investigating any traders who might have whatever I'm after at the time (and that might be because I've spotted something on a layout there and thought "I'd like one of those", or perhaps more likely "that was a good modification/conversion, I wonder if the base model is available"). I'll probably then have a final visit to the "main attraction" before heading home. I find that I'll tend to join-in with conversations with exhibitors rather than start one by asking a question. I do stand on the opposite side of the barriers on occasion, so I know how much concentration is needed to both talk and drive. But when I'm on the operating side I do try to pick up on comments made by the visitors, even if they haven't asked directly. Some will accept the answer/reply and slink off embarrassed, others will start a conversation. And perhaps its my Explorer Scout leading/youth work experience, but I make a special effort to answer queries from teenagers. And when I'm looking round a show as an exhibitor, the length of time I roam will depend solely on the requirements to man the layout I'm with. I'm afraid that the likes of Warley are a "no go" for me. Far too busy, and the cost vs time vs reward equation doesn't, for me, add up. Likewise you'd think that a show like DEMU Showcase would be exactly the sort of thing to attract me, but it hasn't for the last two years. Nothing against Showcase, I'd been for many years previously, but partly due to the increase in fuel costs, partly because I seem to be getting less keen on driving distances (and modern trains are a complete turn-off!) the equation hasn't come out with the right result. Huge layouts are great, but the ones which draw me are the little ones, of the size which I can build, and those tend to be (huge sweeping generalisation coming up) the ones you'll find at small local shows. And I suppose I am fortunate that I have the space to create and operate a couple of layouts based on subjects I really like, and whilst I'd never say they were perfect (or anywhere near) the idea of climbing the stairs and pottering with one will often win over heading off to visit a show. Forgive me if I have rambled a bit, perhaps I am bit of a loner, or maybe I'm just a grumpy old (hopefully middle aged) man! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 I couldn't resist doing this to CK when we had Sidney Street at Ally Pally in 2007: Original thread here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=906 bet you got roasted for that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 bet you got roasted for that! Hopefully not in a footballers term way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 Serious reply now. I will walk past layouts whose gauge/scale/era/subject matter are of no interest to me. Having said that, my eclectic taste means that these are few. Having stopped to look, the things that will cause me to move on quickly are poor running or lack of activity. A significant minority of layouts are simply not ready when the show opens. The next influence is the variety of trains. Even if I really love the layout I will tend to move on when a train I have already seen , reappears. Crowd levels, viewing height and the behavoiur of other people nearby will also influence me. hope this helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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