Andy Y Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 So if Warners really want an 'in' on what the readers think I reckon their best bet is to read anything folk actually decide to put on paper and send to them via the tender care of Royal Mail (or whatever it's latest brand name is. I've had several useful email and PM correspondences which highlight issues in a calm and balanced fashion which are doing more to give useful input than some of the dismissive comments in this topic. These correspondents have taken time to look at the whole magazine and comment in detail, these are already yielding useful amendments. It's also fair to say that it's one thing looking at a revised layout on screens during the design and production stage but some of the issues only really manifest themselves when they've gone through the print run (rather than any dummy copies), particularly to do with colours and type sizes and we've already discussed where there are some issues which will involve changes for the future. I'm currently distilling various points raised onto a scribbled-upon copy of the mag to discuss in more detail in a further meeting.Some bits may change as a result; some may not. On the issue of photoshopping smoke I did a quick count and out of 48 snaps I'd been involved with only 8 involved smoke but I do listen to what some folk say (the less dismissively damning) and will consider how it's used into the future. A note for general consumption - something you hate may be well-liked by other people). Despite James' previously declared longevity as a customer I do get a bit tired of the 'running around making a smell' approach to any criticisms, it's fairly evident to me that it's his attempts at goading me. We do read and we are listening but let's keep it amicable please. If anyone wants to put forward their views in person next weekend at Peterborough is an opportunity to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted October 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2013 I reckon I must be in the minority here, I don't give a tinkers cuss what's on the cover of a magazine, it won't attract me to it just because it's "loud", it's the content that I buy a magazine for, and ones in a plastic bag get dismissed out of hand because I can't peruse the innards. I "inspect" all the current issues to see if there's anything of personal interest, so the cover is irrelevant. I get one magazine by subscription, so a flashy masthead won't make the slightest bit of difference to me on that one, or any other subscribers to any mag, and the MRJ I buy anyway, even if it had a cover with a naked Paul Karau on it. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 There are 161 comments here, quite a few repeats from the same folk. I guess we have to put this thread in context with the amount of readers of the post of the post, nearly 5,000. I wonder how many have bought and read the mag? We don't all like change whether in our opinion it's for the better or worse. It seems the vast majority don't have a prob with it, and as there are several thousand readers who are members, have instant access to post here, then I guess they are happy and content with the change? With access to the site and the ability to post, we can't even comment re the silent majority or minority. BRM has always been an excellent mag with great photography and inspirational and innovative articles. I just see this as another stage in the evolution of the mag, and long may it continue, shopped steam or no! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verityboo Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 On the issue of photoshopping smoke I did a quick count and out of 48 snaps I'd been involved with only 8 involved smoke but I do listen to what some folk say (the less dismissively damning) and will consider how it's used into the future. A note for general consumption - something you hate may be well-liked by other people). Tricky thing social media and forums. Many large companies have thought it an excellent way to spout their PR guff only to be latter stung because they forgot people could say what they think Seems from your statement above that you'll listen to the comments you want to. The 'dismissively damning' comment may be aimed at me but I don't apologise for saying what I think which is that it looks simply appalling, nothing like the smoke seen in real life or in books, it's something which would be put to better use on the Simpsons. That's what I think! You may prefer long sentences and flowery language but unfortunately it seems that the reality of the world now with texting and twitter is that people seem to say what they think in a more succinct and to the point manner I certainly don't claim to talk for anyone else and can't see that anyone else has really. I don't imagine for a moment that smoke will stop appearing in the magazine but at least it looks like you might think before increasing its use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Despite James' previously declared longevity as a customer I do get a bit tired of the 'running around making a smell' approach to any criticisms, it's fairly evident to me that it's his attempts at goading me. "Running around making a smell"? Hmmmm... Reading the thread there are others who share my opinions and have said so in respect of the ones I mentioned - photographic presentation and choice of typeface. I hate to disappoint you Andy but I'm really not goading you! I actually feel for you having to deal with all this reaction here when for the most part I suspect the decisions have been made either higher up or by those who are not actively involved here. Those on the ground often have to cope with this in all sorts of industries and sectors! Further to my other posts, I think it's simply that at times the relationship between Warners' staff and the readers of BRM and members of RMweb is rather over familiar. And compared with other magazine forums, it's rather unique here in my experience. Others I've seen have been a result of publishers setting up their own forums on their sites, but where a publisher acquires an already established one, the relationship is quite different. A bit like when an indie band turns all mainstream. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2013 I reckon I must be in the minority here, I don't give a tinkers cuss what's on the cover of a magazine, it won't attract me to it just because it's "loud", it's the content that I buy a magazine for, and ones in a plastic bag get dismissed out of hand because I can't peruse the innards. I "inspect" all the current issues to see if there's anything of personal interest, so the cover is irrelevant. I get one magazine by subscription, so a flashy masthead won't make the slightest bit of difference to me on that one, or any other subscribers to any mag, and the MRJ I buy anyway, even if it had a cover with a naked Paul Karau on it. Mike. I've got a pic of PK on his bike when he was about 13 y.o. - would that do you? (oddly it reflects what he wrote in a recent MRJ editorial). As far as this thread is concerned it seems to be running its course and I think my earlier post about does/doesn't sums up a lot of what has been said here (and fortunately photoshopping has found a thread of its own, which is where it should have been addressed in the first place in my view. I'll let Andy have a PM with my views as Peterborough is, alas, an awkward trip for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'm intrigued to know what PK does look like in reality; the face behind one of the publishing style icons of the 20th and 21st Century. Are there any pics of him? Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Paul Karau is rather camera-shy, and I think he prefers his work to do the talking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Paul Karau is rather camera-shy, and I think he prefers his work to do the talking. There must be a photo somewhere though, possibly from a past Scaleforum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Who cares what he looks like as long as he keeps doing what he does well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted October 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2013 169 replies, and very, very few have discussed the content of the magazine. There are four mainstream railway modeller magazines and several more niche ones. I buy any I feel has the content I'd like to read about - often modelling of buildings rather than super-detailling of locos (no real surprise there). So do I care if the pictures are photoshopped, or there are little comments or quotes or whatever ? Nope - because each of the four mags does things differently, so it's just a different way (not better or worse, just different) of presenting, essentially, the same few subjects - a layout, a model review, a modelling technique. Do Warners / et al care what I think after I've bought it ? Nope, they've got my money. Do they care if I buy it - probably, but if the content isn't what I want, irrespective of how it's presented, then I won't buy. And as for the 2 hour challenge - why did it take so long ??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I've had several useful email and PM correspondences which highlight issues in a calm and balanced fashion which are doing more to give useful input than some of the dismissive comments in this topic. The implication that private communication of critical opinions is in some way more worthy than the expression of same on an open forum is a strange sentiment from the founder of this website. ?????? Confused! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2013 The implication that private communication of critical opinions is in some way more worthy than the expression of same on an open forum is a strange sentiment from the founder of this website. ?????? Confused! On the contrary. Contributing to a forum thread can be "playing to the gallery", especially in a thread like this where some people are not impressed with the subject under review. OTOH, opinions expressed in private are read only by the recipient, and may therefore be relied upon to be exactly what the writer believes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I think it has - from a PR point of view within the RMweb audience the original announcement went appallingly. I think that it was announced too soon; there was confusion over what the changes would be and even staff saying it was "amusing to watch some earlier presumptions" when readers and RMwebbers didn't have all the information to hand.Not only wrong timing but wrong author ship and wrong [lace. Sure I know this forum is owned by the publishers now and the temptation to declare themselves as special must be there but with a pretty strong history of independence on these things the forum announcement might have been better originating from someone not inside or associated with the team. (That is my opinion on product reviews as well). I can understand the choice of bouncing ideas off the forum community as any feedback is worth having but then it is so difficult not to interact with that feedback and then not appear as if it was not really being asked for in the first place - it was just an advert after all. Still it was interesting taking part in the experiment. There are clearly some good points to take forward and some changes perhaps to rethink by the editorial team. Do I go out of my way to buy the next issue - probably not, as it is probably all ready for the presses. But I may come back and buy an issue 2 or 3 from now to see how much of the not so good bits have been attended to. Subscribe - I doubt it, continue to pick up the odd issue when I'm stuck in an airport - probably. Which remains one up on that Hornby mag thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Some interesting points. Basically BRM has made a big thing about a relaunch ,when it as said above it could have been done at the time of / just prior to publication.I doubt if any people who buy it ,would not have still found it new cover or not. As to casual readers who knows if the re launch has made a difference to them to buying? The only people who know if sales have increased are Warners. Perhaps, will be told this time next month, if it has been a succesful re launch? Due to it being a on a Public forum , BRM surely can expect as much praise as criticism if its the later so be it !! What anyone recieves in private is private and no need to even be mentioned on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'm intrigued to know what PK does look like in reality; the face behind one of the publishing style icons of the 20th and 21st Century. Are there any pics of him? Cheers Simon He definitely looks older now than he did when he was 13 so I doubt my pic would help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 The implication that private communication of critical opinions is in some way more worthy than the expression of same on an open forum is a strange sentiment from the founder of this website. ?????? Confused! Ian's quite on the money in some senses with response. On the contrary. Contributing to a forum thread can be "playing to the gallery", especially in a thread like this where some people are not impressed with the subject under review. OTOH, opinions expressed in private are read only by the recipient, and may therefore be relied upon to be exactly what the writer believes. The off-forum correspondence has been far more detailed (bad and good) and from sources who, I know, would be quite happy to say exactly the same face-to-face and with a track record of providing useful insights. So, yes; such correspondence can carry more weight than repetition or throw-away lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 For clarity then, I assure that my views are sincere and not merely designed to rouse the rabble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Come on Andy, Warners bought a public forum, gave us the "sneak preview" and asked for a response. If you wanted private responses you could have PM'd or emailed us. Please don't take it as an attack on you personally, I think we all have great admiration for RMWeb which is your baby after all, but BRM is out there in the real commercial world and will get stick which, as others have said, is going to be more pronounced on here due to the close links. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted October 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'm intrigued to know what PK does look like in reality; the face behind one of the publishing style icons of the 20th and 21st Century. Are there any pics of him? Cheers Simon Knowing how MRJ eschews new fangled modern technology, the best you'll probably manage is a pencil sketch or watercolour! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Please don't take it as an attack on you personally, I certainly don't Ed but some respondents try it all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Who cares what he looks like as long as he keeps doing what he does well? Well monsieur, I care that's why I asked. Do you have a problem with that?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2013 Knowing how MRJ eschews new fangled modern technology, the best you'll probably manage is a pencil sketch or watercolour! But I am confident it will be exactly to scale! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium wagonbasher Posted October 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 11, 2013 Just catching up with this thread, haven't read everything. Did someone die? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I haven't seen the latest issue (and due to catching the lurgy, I'm not likely to soon) but I would like to add that (unless the magazine is in a plastic bag) I look through to see the content. Light Railways and Narrow Gauge railways are the interests that "float my boat" and are likely to make me buy the magazine, irrespective of style. A pet hate of mine is that since they've nearly all adopted the "perfect" style of binding they've gone in for 2 page photo spreads in a big way, meaning about 1 inch of the photo is lost in the binding Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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