SR 4Lav EMU

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

With the announcement of Hornby's 2Hal and inspired by Colin Parks EMU builds I have embarked on a slowtime project for the winter. I have had a number of Kirk Maunsell coaches in the loft for years and never got round to finishing them. I have often wondered about converting them into an EMU and when Hornby released their 2Bil I was half way through building a Kirk one. So armed with razor saw and plenty of photos I set about the conversion. The motor driver utilises the ends and roof of the 2Bil and the corridor composite various parts of the Maunsell coaches. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For some reason I removed the vents above the doors on the composite but they are easily replaced. I started out by using the Goulding plan book for measurement but the composite ended up slightly short. Then when it came to the DMBS the doors to the brake van are in the wrong place. Always get photos of your project!! As yet I am not sure whether I m going to power it with a Hornby 5 pole class 25 motor bogie or the new 2Bil bogie. I have still got a lot of filling and filing to do to complete these two coaches, but the start has been made. I need now to source some Kirk 1st and 3rd class coaches to make the other two vehicles. I don't think there is much chance of the 4Lav being done RTR, but these days you never know.

 

Cheers for now, Ian. 

[the penguin of doom]

Hi Ian.

 

As Colin will concur, I neither know, nor care much about Southern Railway/Region EMU's.

 

I do however love a good kitbash/cut 'n shut regardless of the subject matter, so I'll be following enthusiastically. From the pictures above, it looks like you've made a sound start.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[10800]

I shall be following this with interest. John (Re6/6) and I are in the process of having some etched sides done for 4LAVs.

[Colin parks]

Good luck with the 4 LAV Ian!

 

They really are full of character and served the Brighton line well. 

 

Get Santa to bring you a drawing of the 4 LAV by Mike King for Christmas.  Do not rely on the Golding book for anything!  ( From one who knows.)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Oldddudders]

A Victoria - Brighton semi-fast in the making! Will enjoy watching this emerge.

[5Bel]

HI All,

 

Thanks for the comments. I will look into getting a Mike King drawing before I do any further major work. The Goulding book does have it's anomalies!! For the moment the unit will have to stay as a two car unit  (2Hal!!) as I need to get parts for the other two coaches. My modelling has to stop for the Christmas period as my workbench gets transformed into a serving table for all the festive goodies!! This is on the orders of Mrs 5Bel who is visible in the background of the photos.

 

Merry Christmas to All, Ian.

[Gwiwer]

Another worthy SR EMU build under way and being watched with interest here.  I well remember the LAV units on Brighton - London stoppers (headcode 14 to Victoria, 15 to London Bridge) and they occasionally strayed along the coast as well at least as far as Littlehampton and Eastbourne.

 

Watch out for detail differences between units which developed over time and as others have suggested it may be prudent to cross-check any source material.

[Colin parks]

Another worthy SR EMU build under way and being watched with interest here.  I well remember the LAV units on Brighton - London stoppers (headcode 14 to Victoria, 15 to London Bridge) and they occasionally strayed along the coast as well at least as far as Littlehampton and Eastbourne.

 

Watch out for detail differences between units which developed over time and as others have suggested it may be prudent to cross-check any source material.

As Gwiwer says the fleet did undergo some changes: There was one 4 LAV, 2926 that lost its corridor composite with the two lavatories in an accident in 1961 and ended its day as effectively a 4 LAV with no lav..   (It had a 2 HAL motor coach as an accident replacement  in 1947.  (The damaged composite coach was replaced with an Augmentation wooden-roofed trailer coach).

 

Now that would be an interesting model!

 

Colin

[Southernboy]

Good luck with this 5Bel. It's great to see another Southern EMU on the go.

[Gwiwer]

 

a 4 LAV with no lav.. 

 

 

4Nol?

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

As Gwiwer says the fleet did undergo some changes: There was one 4 LAV, 2926 that lost its corridor composite with the two lavatories in an accident in 1961 and ended its day as effectively a 4 LAV with no lav..   (It had a 2 HAL motor coach as an accident replacement  in 1947.  (The damaged composite coach was replaced with an Augmentation wooden-roofed trailer coach).

 

Now that would be an interesting model!

 

Colin

 

 I already have a Phoenix 2Hal motor coach that I was going to refurbish, I may have to look into cutting my scratchbuilding teeth on an augmentation trailer!! It would be quite a unique model. I have seen at least one photo of this unit, I think it is in the Bradford Barton Southern Electric book, though I will check later.

 

4Nol?

 

 All the way back from Brighton with no lavatory, that would take some will power!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian

[Gwiwer]

 

All the way back from Brighton with no lavatory, that would take some will power!!

 

 

But not as much as south-eastern commuters required.  EPB stock was standard fare as far out as Gillingham with no lavatories and few (if any) choices of train.  Not all suburban stations had the required facilities either.  At least on the Brighton Line there would have been choice of rolling stock and usually 2 4Lav units on the stopping trains.  

 

But there's no pleasing some people and more than one passengers has been spotted over the years by signalmen or track staff relieving themselves via the lowered window .....

[Enterprisingwestern]

Ian, a question not a criticism, wouldn't it be better to strip the original paint off the bodies before you start sticking things together?, I find it helps when repainting/adding details that getting rid of the gloop that passes for paint these days gives a finer base to work from, or are you doing that anyway and I'm getting a bit previous?

 

Mike.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Nice project of yet another old Southern EMU nice to see so much work going on the this area . Look forward to seeing the project progress

 

Nigel

[talisman56]

Another worthy SR EMU build under way and being watched with interest here.  I well remember the LAV units on Brighton - London stoppers (headcode 14 to Victoria, 15 to London Bridge) and they occasionally strayed along the coast as well at least as far as Littlehampton and Eastbourne.

 

Watch out for detail differences between units which developed over time and as others have suggested it may be prudent to cross-check any source material.

 

They also appeared on the corresponding semi-fasts (headcodes 12 and 13). I have had the experience of the extra-acceleration issue at above 50mph as described in certain quarters as being due to the woodworm jumping out...

Edited December 23, 2013 by talisman56

[10800]

 

But there's no pleasing some people and more than one passengers has been spotted over the years by signalmen or track staff relieving themselves via the lowered window .....

Now there's a modelling challenge ...

[Gwiwer]

Gwiwer, on 23 Dec 2013 - 16:54, said:

 

But there's no pleasing some people and more than one passengers has been spotted over the years by signalmen or track staff relieving themselves via the lowered window ..... 

 

Now there's a modelling challenge ...

 

Challenge?  Nah ..... it's a piece of p**$  

 

Paging Stubby to the 4Lav thread - Stubby47 is required in the 4Lav thread please!

[Colin parks]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

 

 I already have a Phoenix 2Hal motor coach that I was going to refurbish, I may have to look into cutting my scratchbuilding teeth on an augmentation trailer!! It would be quite a unique model. I have seen at least one photo of this unit, I think it is in the Bradford Barton Southern Electric book, though I will check later.

 

 

 All the way back from Brighton with no lavatory, that would take some will power!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian

Hi Ian,

 

The Augmentation trailer of that 4 LAV would be fairly conventional to make as it had a cant rail, unlike some later trailers built for the scheme which were of all-steel construction like a 4 SUB.  The only down side to modelling unit 2926 would be having to set the composite aside that you have already started, but then again you have a 2 HAL motor coach...

 

 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

But not as much as south-eastern commuters required.  EPB stock was standard fare as far out as Gillingham with no lavatories and few (if any) choices of train.  Not all suburban stations had the required facilities either.  At least on the Brighton Line there would have been choice of rolling stock and usually 2 4Lav units on the stopping trains.  

 

But there's no pleasing some people and more than one passengers has been spotted over the years by signalmen or track staff relieving themselves via the lowered window .....

Hi Gwiwer,

 

Bearing in mind that the 4 LAVs' two  toilets were situated at either end of the corridor composite and that there were no gangways between coaches on these units, I bet a lot of passengers were caught short over the years!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

 

Ian, a question not a criticism, wouldn't it be better to strip the original paint off the bodies before you start sticking things together?, I find it helps when repainting/adding details that getting rid of the gloop that passes for paint these days gives a finer base to work from, or are you doing that anyway and I'm getting a bit previous?

 

Mike.

 

Hi Mike,

I will be using the Precision Paints stripper to take the paint off for exactly the reason you have stated, I have run out of it at the moment.

 

Hi Ian,

 

The Augmentation trailer of that 4 LAV would be fairly conventional to make as it had a cant rail, unlike some later trailers built for the scheme which were of all-steel construction like a 4 SUB.  The only down side to modelling unit 2926 would be having to set the composite aside that you have already started, but then again you have a 2 HAL motor coach...

 

 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

 Colin,

Thinking about it, if I can muster enough Kirk parts to make the compartment composite I may as well go the whole way and model a standard Lav. However the Hal motor coach will not go to waste, I am thinking of a 2Pan or making the departmental unit that had a Hal motor coach and an Epb trailer for a period. Just so happens I have an Epb trailer in the loft! It is a shame I cant get hold of any Hornby Maunsell coach bodies as spares for the conversion. I have several complete coaches, but there is no way I am taking a saw to those.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

Wow, nearly four years since I posted anything in this thread!! I did say it was going to be slow time. With the recent reintroduction of the Kirk sides by Phoenix I have taken it upon myself to finish the 4Lav. So armed with plenty of grey plastic sides and a new blade in my razor saw I set about it. The easiest to do by far is the Trailer Composite (TC). This was just a basic cut and shut of the sides put under an extended roof of which I have several.

 

 

 

The underframe is extended Kirk with Kirk bogies. I could have ordered a 2Bil underframe but thought I would use some of my spares up. The next coach is the Trailer Composite Lavatory (TCL). This is a bit more complicated and I had to reuse parts from the previous effort seen before. Again it sits under an extended Kirk roof and will use the same chassis as the TC.

 

 

 

The grey parts are the new Ex Kirk parts, green original Kirk. It's now on with the Drivers which will be a bit more complicated.

 

Cheers for now, Ian

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

I have made a start on the Driving cars. The sides are a combintion of corridor 3rd and brake 3rd coaches cut and moved into place. The cab sides are from the Kirk 2Bil that have been slimmed down to the flat 4Lav profile.

 

 

 

The cab ends a quite different to the Bil. The windows are closer to the headcode box, so I cut down the fold lines on the kit then shaved off a sliver next to the box. The windows were then stuck in place inboard of where they were. The sliver then goes on the outside of the windows when everything is reassembled.

 

 

 

 

This makes quite a difference to the end and gives it the characteristic 4Lav front end. I have already assembled one driving car and will take some pics tomorrow.

 

Cheers for now, Ian

[wigwamcan]

That smacked in the face look shown by your photos brings back memories of Sunday excursion tickets when my three siblings and our mother would be off to Brighton for the day or workman's tickets in the days of school holidays at ungodly hours, accompanying my father down to Redhill where we would change for Nutfield and the houses he was helping to build with his carpentry skills. Also, I recall vividly an incident when I was waiting at Norwood Junction for the train to school at Waddon, a 4LAV rattled it's way at a fair lick through platform 4, the fast line, only to scream to a stop just past the signal box and a couple of minutes later come back into the platform where it was meant to stop as a semi-fast out of London Bridge. Against the regulations one must suppose, but needs must. They always looked to me as if one rail joint too many and they would fall to bits, but inside they were luxury personified, comfy seats and copious polished wood.

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

I now have a 4 car 4Lav after 4 years of trying!

 

 

 

 

Wigwamcan thanks for sharing your memory. That is what I enjoy about this Forum, you never know what a model or picture can stir up in a person. I will be spending the afternoon cobbling together the underframes for the remaining three cars. I will be powering the model with a Hornby 2Bil motor bogie and the dummy power bogie will also be off a Hornby 2Bil. Both these bogies were saved when I converted a 2Bil to run unpowered. The driving cars need rubbing down to get the correct shape on the ends, then it will be on with the detailing.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for pressing the buttons. I have finally got all four cars finished to detailing level. The big lump of metal that houses the motor bogie itself has been pinned and glued into the chassis and luckily holds the bogie at the correct ride height.

 

 

 

This weight was salvaged from my demotoring of a Hornby 2Bil. The trailing bogie is Bachmann that will have pickups fitted. The underframe bits are Roxey.

 

 

 

It is now a case of final detailing and painting. Luckily there are loads of pictures of the roofs of these units, its just a case of threading all those lamps tops!! It is good to have it as a full four car unit finally, it's one of those models I thought would never get done. 

 

Cheers for now, Ian