45609 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I can't believe that I have been faffing around with the brake gear for nearly two days. It's basically as per the kit except that I filed down the wires where they sit in the etched recess in the brake beams and soldered the pull rods on top rather than underneath. I also thickened up some of the joints and added bolt heads. The section forward of the front brake beam was scratch built from n/s and brass wire, tube and strip. 6848.24.jpg Looks like 2 days well spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 It certainly does! Very neat set of compensated brake gear and well worth the effort. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwell Hall Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I can't believe that I have been faffing around with the brake gear for nearly two days. It's basically as per the kit except that I filed down the wires where they sit in the etched recess in the brake beams and soldered the pull rods on top rather than underneath. I also thickened up some of the joints and added bolt heads. The section forward of the front brake beam was scratch built from n/s and brass wire, tube and strip. 6848.24.jpg Absolutely lovely work John - definitely two days well spent! I have exactly the same to do on my Hall just as soon as I get my eyesight sorted out! I'm in between cateract surgery at present (one done, one still to be done) so currently not able to do any modelling which is highly frustrating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Absolutely lovely work John - definitely two days well spent! I have exactly the same to do on my Hall just as soon as I get my eyesight sorted out! I'm in between cateract surgery at present (one done, one still to be done) so currently not able to do any modelling which is highly frustrating! Sorry to hear about your eye problems Gerry. Apart from no modelling, are you able to get on with the rest of life? Hope the second op goes well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwell Hall Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Sorry to hear about your eye problems Gerry. Apart from no modelling, are you able to get on with the rest of life? Hope the second op goes well. Not too bad John. Still able to do my 'day job' although as I am also unable to drive at present I am using public transport - which is no bad thing - and writing reports on the 'pooter' is a bit of a challenge! Hopefully the second op will be within a few weeks then I can begin to move on - it will be woth it in the end! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 This morning's task was to power up the Grange. I immediately ran into a problem. The hangers for the springs (which are etched as part of the main frames) project beyond the wheel. This does not happen on the prototype where they are inset. On the model this makes it difficult to use wipers on the flange of the wheel to pick up power without the risk of the wipers shorting out on the chassis. It did lead me to wonder if the problem is down to wheel size, which would also explain why the brake hangers/shoes sit to far away from the wheel tread for my liking. The Ultrascale wheels are a scale 1" smaller than the design size but this is only 0.5" on the tread, equivalent to 0.167mm. Was the kit perhaps designed for use with coarser wheels? Back to the solving the problem. The front two wheel sets came out (this was where I was really glad that I had only tacked one end of the dummy springs that retain them) and the offending hangers were filed to a more suitable profile. The photo below shows the pcb collector plate retained with two 12BA bolts with styrene washers and the four sprung phosphor bronze wipers. As I had opted to retain electrical pick ups on all six tender wheels, I was happy to only collect power from four of the diving wheels. I was unable to use the Hornby electrical connection as half of it was on the loco chassis that I had sold on. The connection on the tender was therefore removed and replaced with a couple of strips of PCB. It is a very quick process to make the soldered connections between loco and tender and the wires can be made to look like pipework! Once I had achieved a decent mesh between the motor and gearbox and stabilised them, loco and tender ran very nicely. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 John, Can we please have an underside, side view of the springs and the wipers to see how much you had to reduce them? I think you really should find a way of picking up off that rear driver! Cheers Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Tony, Here's the close up that you asked for. You can see how much has been taken off, as I only filed down the hangers that were obstructing the wipers. I could probably have got away with taking off less in some cases (the error was not the same on all the hangers!) but I erred on the safe side as they are now hidden by the wheel. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hi John. I can't comment about the spring hangers as I'm not that familiar with GWR locos, but it is fairly easy to get pick-ups past any size obstacle if you have them bear on the back of the wheel rim, coming in from beyond the wheel so to speak. This photo of my under-construction Crab illustrates my way of doing it, hiding the pick up behinf the brake blocks where possible. Obviously, in this case you've overcome the problem, but my idea may be useful in the future. Dave. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Thanks Dave. Very neat solution, I did think about doing something like that but wasn't sure how well it would work. Certainly something to consider in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Killybegs Posted January 23, 2016 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2016 Brake gear duly fitted along with sanding gear and various bits of plumbing. I removed the sand boxes from the body and attached them to the chassis along with styrene packing to bring them out to the correct position (as it's easier to remove the body if it doesn't have bits that ought to be on the chassis attached to it). MM's instructions are not a lot of help when it comes to fitting injectors and their associated plumbing. Although some of the plumbing is visible in photographs, the injectors lurk in that dark area below the cab and behind the steps. However, looking at that plumbing that is visible and noting that the injectors provided in the kit look remarkably like the ones in MF's Hall kit (did they use the same supplier?), I decided that they were probably installed pretty much the same on the Grange as on the Hall (for which I have a lot of information). So that's what I did. Hopefully, no one is going to come up with a photograph that disproves my theory! I have a few bits to tidy up on the body, then it's off to the paint shop for a little more weathering. 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) The Grange has now been put aside for weathering as I need to restock on paint, which means waiting for my next trip to the UK with vehicle in April. My next project was supposed to be upgrading 3 Bachmann Pannier Tanks to P4 - tidying up the bodies and mounting on High Level chassis. However, I seem to have somehow got distracted into looking at the 9F that has been sitting around even longer than the panniers. I bought a Dave Bradwell chassis when they first came out and picked up a second hand Bachmann 9F almost as long ago. The intention was to have a quick look to see how much work was involved, order what I needed, then get on with the tanks. Foolish. I was soon hooked and busy on Autocad. Dave recommends a tender mounted motor connected to the rear drivers with a cardon shaft. Now that's not really my cup of tea, but I found that I could fit a Mashima 1626 mounted off vertical in the firebox driving the fourth axle through a High Level RoadRunner + gearbox. The reference books were dragged out and perused and I had a good look at the body. I had always thought it was pretty good, but my list of changes/improvements currently has twenty four items on it! Maybe mine is a bad example but the fit of the various components is very poor and needs a lot of filing and filling. Examples of this are the connections between the cab sides and cab floor and footplate - see below. The Bachmann offering has the firebox split between the body and chassis at footplate level so I will need to make a new bottom half to fit onto the body. Drawing this up on the computer I found I had a mismatch between body and chassis. After much faffing about I finally tracked the problem down, the angle of rake on the front of the Bachmann firebox is too steep, bringing the the leading edge too close to the driving wheel. Fortunately the body is made of plastic and it was relatively easy to modify the angle. This was done with scalpel and fine abrasive paper and finished off with T-Cut. See below - the original angle can be seen from the row of rivets and the gap in the footplate which will need filling. I will probably remove the rivets and replace them with Archers stick on variety. The only real conflict between the chassis and the body is that they both come with a cab floor! It is not practical to remove the cab floor from the body, so it would have to go from the chassis. I looked at various alternative solutions, trying to use as much of the kit as possible. In the end I opted to use the lower lamination of the cab floor from the kit. The details of this will follow later but as a first step all the moulded brackets on the underside of the cab floor needed removing. Fairly straight forward but time consuming as the whole cab floor and footplate assembly is metal - see below. I have left the original mounting pillar and will fit an extra frame spacer in the chassis to make use of it. It does clash with the position of the rear brake cylinder but, as this is hidden inside the chassis, it can be left out. Edited January 31, 2016 by Killybegs 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Looking forward to this one John, we had several 9Fs visit at Hurlford so I intend to have a couple of very dirty ones on display towards the end of the shed's life. Can't say that mine will be anything like as well done as yours but I'm sure to be inspired following your workmanship! Kind regards, Jock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 John, I'm another who is very much looking forward to the 9F. I built one some years ago using a Model Loco Kits (basically DJH) body on a chassis made up from Gibson milled frames and coupling rods (correct wheelbase) with valve gear a mix of the kit and Comet parts and home made slidebar support and valve gear brackets. Suspension was partly compensated with sprung centre axle and pony truck. Like you, I used a vertical mounted motor in the firebox driving the 4th axle through a High Level gearbox - completely invisible despite the large gap between frames and boiler! I've also got a Bradwell chassis so have a particular interest in you new project. Good luck with it. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Dave, I had been hoping to squeeze a 1626 Mashima into the firebox, but if I want it totally contained within the firebox, it will have to be a 1624. There's certainly no room for a motor inside the ashpan which is inside the frames which are only 12.7mm apart! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) I've had a go at a 9f - three times - all without success - First failure was a total mess, second failure was the choice of the wrong gearbox (it either went 100 mph or not at all) third failure is a long story of my incompetence as a chassis builder. But I would suggest you look at the Bill Bedford connecting rods. Triple laminate that are correctly jointed. Like Dave I too have a Bradwell chassis lurking to be built. So I shall be taking notes. As there are no 9f wheels available for a scale model, which ones are you going to use, or do you have a cunning plan? I should have added there is a certain fruit bat living in Bristol who is actually building a sprung 9f with roller bearings...and I have photos! Mike Edited January 31, 2016 by Mike G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 I have just had a look at Bill Bedford's web site but cannot see any connecting rods (or coupling rods!) The nearest wheels from Alan Gibson have the wrong crank throw and apparently the hubs are too small. Dave Bradwell says in his instructions that he plugged the crankpin holes and redrilled them. I have lobbed an email in Morgan's direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrowroad Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I have just had a look at Bill Bedford's web site but cannot see any connecting rods (or coupling rods!) The nearest wheels from Alan Gibson have the wrong crank throw and apparently the hubs are too small. Dave Bradwell says in his instructions that he plugged the crankpin holes and redrilled them. I have lobbed an email in Morgan's direction. Interesting project John - I shall follow it with interest. As you know I have a couple of Bradwell chassis and one with a set of Gibson and the other Sharman wheels neither of which are accurate enough. I have had a chat with Morgan about these wheels - he has borrowed one chassis kit and a Bachmann 9F so will no doubt let me/us know whether it is possible/feasible to do anything with the Bachmann wheels. Keep up the good work, Robin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) ...and the lobbed email has been read and will be replied to shortly. I have a cunning plan Mr. D Edited January 31, 2016 by 45609 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted January 31, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2016 John, just found this thread on Jock's recommendation. I should not have read it as I also have a 9F lurking. When I saw the light and moved into 7mm I bought two locos kits to start with (I had just had a legacy and had the cash) One was a Midland Compound, which now runs on Green Ayre. The other was a 9F with a BR1C tender, the number of which you may recognise from my moniker. It was the only main line loco I ever got a cab ride on, from Blea Moor to Settle in my case as a 14 yr old. To say the least it was not an ideal starter kit in the early 1990's. I won't mention the manufacturer for fear of the libel laws but it was an piece of carp. I did eventually get a chassis running but the cylinders were too close together for the con rods to clear the coupling rod bosses. Sorting that out was beyond my then skills and the part built kit, tender mainly built, body looking something like and part completed chassis, is still in it's box in the wardrobe. One day I may have a got at it as I would like to get it running. Reading this thread stirred memories of my ineptitude but I wish you well with your project and look forward to seeing the results. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Dave, I had been hoping to squeeze a 1626 Mashima into the firebox, but if I want it totally contained within the firebox, it will have to be a 1624. There's certainly no room for a motor inside the ashpan which is inside the frames which are only 12.7mm apart! Yes, I seem to remember cranking the extended gearbox and seating the motor with the bottom end as low into the flared part of the ashpan, which is part of the chassis, as it would go, That way one can steal another mm or so for the motor. Edited February 1, 2016 by Dave Holt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I have just had a look at Bill Bedford's web site but cannot see any connecting rods (or coupling rods!) The nearest wheels from Alan Gibson have the wrong crank throw and apparently the hubs are too small. Dave Bradwell says in his instructions that he plugged the crankpin holes and redrilled them. I have lobbed an email in Morgan's direction. I did give a set to Morgan - some while back admittedly. They are on Eileens site: https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=5765&category_id=288&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9 As I said worth having a look at. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 ....suggest you look at the Bill Bedford connecting rods. Triple laminate that are correctly jointed. ... The coupling rods may be alright on that etch, but be careful of the rest of it. There are valve gear parts on it, but it looks like Bill was distracted at the time that he was drawing it up, and hence it wasn't fully finished. The expansion links, in particular, are massive. ....The nearest wheels from Alan Gibson have the wrong crank throw and apparently the hubs are too small. Dave Bradwell says in his instructions that he plugged the crankpin holes and redrilled them. I have lobbed an email in Morgan's direction. The AGW 5' wheels were only ever meant for the Ivatt 2. 9F hubs were much more substantial (and machined relatively flat). The lack of an accurate "flat" hub also affects the BR Std. 6, 7 and 8 Pacifics. AGW has the correct diameter 6'2" wheel, but it's meant for the Std.5 - I tried filing a wheel centre down, and it didn't really look right. I forget who it was - Dave Franks? - who managed to ask Ultrascale to have a look at the problem, but they are so overloaded with work that I doubt we'll see any 6/7/8/9 wheels from this source. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 I did give a set to Morgan - some while back admittedly. They are on Eileens site: https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=5765&category_id=288&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9 As I said worth having a look at. Mike Is there something I should know about the coupling rods that come with the chassis kit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) No John, not at all. I just thought Bill's coupling rods and the way they were jigged to go together was a really good idea. What you can't see on the photo on Eileens site are the holes in the etches that line everything up. You might find this collection of photos of some use. https://goo.gl/photos/kBZbgnYECRZyaF4EA Let me know if you can't access them. Mike Edited February 1, 2016 by Mike G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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