Hornby K1

[toboldlygo]

I suspect we must be using different versions of Giggle then...  

 

A quick 20 seconds of my time turns up these...  As straight as my owld grannies lace.

 

R0240 - North Blyth Shed by BarkingBill, on Flickr

62024 by Dan86401, on Flickr

LNER Class 2-6-0 K1 No. 62005 at York NRM - 18th March 2014. by allan5819 (Allan McKever), on Flickr

62005 BR Peppercorn K1 2-6-0 by Keith B Pics, on Flickr

K1 at the Gasometer by tatraškoda, on Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/dNGBTv

https://flic.kr/p/dNGBUx

 

P

Try switching safe search off     

[Legend]

I'm sure the Model Railway mags will pick up on this fault and report it, forcing Hornby to get it right in subsequent batches. Oh was that a pig I just saw fly past?

[The Black Hat]

I agree it might be a bit extreme but it's entertaining to be controversial, now and again.

 

Bob

 

Your preaching to the choir on that one. I wont bow down to the idea that northern stuff wont sell. People would model it if they were made, hence the move by Bachmann to model the GC as it bridges the GE area which Hornby do, and the midland which they are dominating, not because anyone actually wanted it, save the ROD. The clamour for GC, GE, GN stuff is all lower than NE region, but as the workings from one region overlap to the others it helps with the idea of sales. But as the North East is virtually independant and even became its own region in its own right, they have not chosen to move that far, even if the prototypical interest is better, the options for the region more varied. Scotland shares the same fate, but they have not moved much past Doncaster - yet.... This in turn is the reason for frustration and dismay when we end up with duplication not of a class that is needed like the 4MT, but some tank engine designed like its out of a childrens drawing. The North East region does, create interest, and there is demand for the engines specifically for up north rather than a model being made which also saw use here, or on loan or for a short time, but the model was produced for another area as the main reason, forcing us to be thankful for the offerings we are allowed to take interest in and find useful.

 

Despite the K1 being predominantly north eastern, I was hoping Hornby would follow this up with another Northern engine, like the B16, J21 both of which would be the kind Hornby would go for, but alas theres almost an entire announcement dedicated to the Southern region - again!

 

The K1 is a good model, the detail is good, the character well captured. Running qualities seem fine and its easy to chip to DCC. Some parts are a little fragile, but thats always the case with high spec new models. Im happy to have the chance to buy a model that is more north eastern than it is Anglican, even if Hornby might use it to test the demand for Northern stuff. Given its flown off the shelves it suggests the demand for the area is there, as they were more common up north and modellers can tend to be fussy about prototypes, as even if a J50 was at Darlington for a few months, they are pathetic compared with a J72 or the J94, the latter has become my choice.

 

For now it means Im looking for the K1, enjoying the B1 too, but waiting for the Q6 from DJM, and expect the 2MT to follow eventually, to allow the idea of an NE Region layout to become a reality.

 

Till then, my K1 takes pride of place being a model of my favourite engine of them all. So even with its faults, Im very happy and proud as punch to own this, I just wish there was more certainty of things to go with it...

 

Edited December 18, 2014 by The Black Hat

[Ian Hargrave]

Three rousing cheers for you. Well posted,David

[robmcg]

For what it's worth the slightly wavy running plate was evident even in the pre-production photos and is no surprise. If I buy one I might just darken the lining... It doesn't look too bad in the lower photo.

 

[43078shildoncountydurham]

Hi all progress report,

Managed to get the running plate straight off chassis, need to crack the glue

[Porcy Mane]

Thought I'd have a investigate as to the reason for my wavy running plate prior to doing some "alterations".

Seems like the running plate was being forced down on both sides by an excess of glue were the running plate and firebox are joined.

The RP was then being forced up to sit on top of the reversing assembly. Forced down again due to too much glue being used on the join under the smokebox preventing two location tabs moulded as part of the bottom of the smokebox sitting fully in their respective recesses.

This seems to be exasperated by quite a lot of tension being present in the RP moulding meaning on my example it is banana shaped as it comes and then relies on the glued joints holding everything level.

Still a clever design and it has much to commend it. The boiler bands are commendably fine but as with a lot of Hornby steam outline there is two noticeable tool-mark line along each side of the boiler barrel and smokebox, The presence of these mould lines are exaggerated by  fine tampo printing having a slight wobble across the line.

 

Still a nice model though. I'm warming to it.

 

P

 

[toboldlygo]

Anybody know what size bolt spanner I need for running gear main bolt and how do I get one?

 

This is the one I've got:

Expo 78032 2.5mm Nut-spinner 

[toboldlygo]

Thought I'd have a investigate as to the reason for my wavy running plate prior to doing some "alterations".

Seems like the running plate was being forced down on both sides by an excess of glue were the running plate and firebox are joined.

The RP was then being forced up to sit on top of the reversing assembly. Forced down again due to too much glue being used on the join under the smokebox preventing two location tabs moulded as part of the bottom of the smokebox sitting fully in their respective recesses.

This seems to be exasperated by quite a lot of tension being present in the RP moulding meaning on my example it is banana shaped as it comes and then relies on the glued joints holding everything level.

Still a clever design and it has much to commend it. The boiler bands are commendably fine but as with a lot of Hornby steam outline there is two noticeable tool-mark line along each side of the boiler barrel and smokebox, The presence of these mould lines are exaggerated by  fine tampo printing having a slight wobble across the line.

 

Still a nice model though. I'm warming to it.

HbyR3243-K1-loco-08-EditSm.jpg

 

P

 

With the bend you've got in that running plate, are you sure your not Uri Gellar?     

[Porcy Mane]

With the bend you've got in that running plate, are you sure your not Uri Gellar?     

To be fair to Hornby  the bend wasn't that bad when affixed to the boiler but I stress it wasn't caused during separation.

 

P

[31A]

I look forward to buying my early crest version (for March allocated loco) in due course. If necessary I will refer to the suggestions in this thread for straightening the running plate. However it is noticeable that this part is normally a metal casting on Bachmann locos, and I'm slightly surprised Hornby haven't also adopted this approach on locos such as this where the running plate is quite a weak component (says he having given up trying to remove an O1's body after nearly breaking the running plate).

[it's-er]

Agree 31A"s comment that on Bachmann locos the running plate is a metal casting - the LNER K3, for example. Can someone confirm what it is on Hornby's K1, please? From the above, it sounds as if it may be a plastic moulding, but no one has stated the material, so far.

 

John

[Market65]

Hi, it's-er. It is plastic. I would have hoped for a metal RP as well, but it appears that Hornby prefer their RP's to be made out of plastic.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[Bernard Lamb]

Agree 31A"s comment that on Bachmann locos the running plate is a metal casting - the LNER K3, for example. Can someone confirm what it is on Hornby's K1, please? From the above, it sounds as if it may be a plastic moulding, but no one has stated the material, so far.

 

John

I did imply that it was plastic when I said it was flexible.

Bernard

[43078shildoncountydurham]

This is the one I've got:

 

Expo 78032 2.5mm Nut-spinner 

Hi all

 

Thanks Toboldlygo, one on order .

 

Regards

 

Craig

[toboldlygo]

I look forward to buying my early crest version (for March allocated loco) in due course. If necessary I will refer to the suggestions in this thread for straightening the running plate. However it is noticeable that this part is normally a metal casting on Bachmann locos, and I'm slightly surprised Hornby haven't also adopted this approach on locos such as this where the running plate is quite a weak component (says he having given up trying to remove an O1's body after nearly breaking the running plate).

 

The motion brackets are glued to the running plate on the O1 in most cases, you need to carefully free the running plate from the top of the motion bracket by running a sharp thin knife blade between the two. Once free the chassis should come free of the body.

[31A]

The motion brackets are glued to the running plate on the O1 in most cases, you need to carefully free the running plate from the top of the motion bracket by running a sharp thin knife blade between the two. Once free the chassis should come free of the body.

 

Thanks for that - I'll bear in mind should I ever need to remove the O1's top!  (I don't think I actually needed to, I was just trying to be nosey but decided to leave well alone after all!).

[31A]

I did imply that it was plastic when I said it was flexible.

Bernard

Sorry if I confused people; I always understood it to be plastic on the K1 from what has been written and from experience with B1s, B17s, O1s etc.  I was just thinking it might be better if Hornby followed Bachmann's practice in this area as a more robust component might result (although owners of certain N class moguls may disagree). 

[RBAGE]

To be fair to Hornby  the bend wasn't that bad when affixed to the boiler but I stress it wasn't caused during separation.

 

P

For the benefit of Hornby (if they are watching). That amount of distortion on a plastic moulding suggests that the injection temperature is too low with introduces stress to the moulding in the process.

 

The moulding has then been removed from the tool too soon after injection and before it has fully chilled. The stress causes the "soft" moulding to bend.

 

Your supplier may consider that the distortion in such a moulding will be overcome within the assembly but it is only going to cause problems elsewhere.

 

It seems you need to speak to your supplier on this and a number of other issues.

 

Bob 

[Sylvian Tennant]

You think GBL will bring out a static model of it... i do hopes. it'll save me having to fart around shopping and changing a Bachmann b1/k3. Lovely model model though

Edited December 19, 2014 by Sylvian Tennant

[RBAGE]

For the benefit of Hornby (if they are watching). That amount of distortion on a plastic moulding suggests that the injection temperature is too low with introduces stress to the moulding in the process.

 

The moulding has then been removed from the tool too soon after injection and before it has fully chilled. The stress causes the "soft" moulding to bend.

 

Your supplier may consider that the distortion in such a moulding will be overcome within the assembly but it is only going to cause problems elsewhere.

 

It seems you need to speak to your supplier on this and a number of other issues.

 

Bob 

One other possible cause, and probably more likely with this being such a thin section, is that the injection pressure is too high with a temperature too low. The end result will be the same.

 

It will be difficult with a thin section but is achievable.

 

I expect the moulder has convinced Hornby "it's not possible because the section is too thin". Believe me, they are talking rubbish.

 

Bob

[G-BOAF]

Thought I'd have a investigate as to the reason for my wavy running plate prior to doing some "alterations".

Seems like the running plate was being forced down on both sides by an excess of glue were the running plate and firebox are joined.

The RP was then being forced up to sit on top of the reversing assembly. Forced down again due to too much glue being used on the join under the smokebox preventing two location tabs moulded as part of the bottom of the smokebox sitting fully in their respective recesses.

This seems to be exasperated by quite a lot of tension being present in the RP moulding meaning on my example it is banana shaped as it comes and then relies on the glued joints holding everything level.

Still a clever design and it has much to commend it. The boiler bands are commendably fine but as with a lot of Hornby steam outline there is two noticeable tool-mark line along each side of the boiler barrel and smokebox, The presence of these mould lines are exaggerated by  fine tampo printing having a slight wobble across the line.

 

Still a nice model though. I'm warming to it.

HbyR3243-K1-loco-08-EditSm.jpg

 

P

 

 

One other possible cause, and probably more likely with this being such a thin section, is that the injection pressure is too high with a temperature too low. The end result will be the same.

 

It will be difficult with a thin section but is achievable.

 

I expect the moulder has convinced Hornby "it's not possible because the section is too thin". Believe me, they are talking rubbish.

 

Bob

Quite alarming bend; again a commendable model, but something not quite manufactured to spec here. Ther B1s have a similarly thin running plate and are OK, so it IS technically possible to mould such parts properly.

Unfortunately a case of someone somewhere not having done their job properly and got to the root of the problem. Despite subcontracting, at the end of the day the responsiblity lies with Hornby's engineers in Margate.

 

Even if there were no mounting problems, it is hard to see the running plate totally sitting straight when fixed to the boiler.

 

And those who squint their eyes and say 'the real thing had wonky running plates' ... please give me a break; This is (nominally) a model of an ex-works loco, I can't imagine a loco released from a major overhaul with such a running plate! It is just such comments wich give ammunition to Hornby (and other manufacturers) to say things like: our customers have been very pleased with this new model and we have not received any complaints, and anyway the model is within production tollerences. You might be happy with the model, but please don't give ammunition to manufacturers to justify perpetuating faults

 

Glad I hadn't ordered one of these; will certainly be waiting for batch 2 in 2016 or whenver (along with suitable tooling mix for 62005 without boiler top pannel and with AWS etc).

Better Hornby, but not quite there it seems (sadly, despite initial impressions).

 

p.s. I wonder if similar injection moulding errors (temperature/pressure/tooling release times) are to blame for the banana shaped bogies Bachmann supply with their 6-axle diesels?

Edited December 19, 2014 by G-BOAF

[Arthur]

So is the footplate bent at manufacture (moulding) or is it being bent at assembly? I've not yet had a proper look at mine, it's footplate has a minor deflection, similar to that in tbg's earlier post, something I'll attend to.

 

I hope that this foolplate issue doesn't come to define this otherwise top notch model. If not quite there yet because of it, it certainly shows the direction in which Hornby are, hopefully, heading.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Arthur

[John Tomlinson]

Thought I'd have a investigate as to the reason for my wavy running plate prior to doing some "alterations".

Seems like the running plate was being forced down on both sides by an excess of glue were the running plate and firebox are joined.

The RP was then being forced up to sit on top of the reversing assembly. Forced down again due to too much glue being used on the join under the smokebox preventing two location tabs moulded as part of the bottom of the smokebox sitting fully in their respective recesses.

This seems to be exasperated by quite a lot of tension being present in the RP moulding meaning on my example it is banana shaped as it comes and then relies on the glued joints holding everything level.

Still a clever design and it has much to commend it. The boiler bands are commendably fine but as with a lot of Hornby steam outline there is two noticeable tool-mark line along each side of the boiler barrel and smokebox, The presence of these mould lines are exaggerated by  fine tampo printing having a slight wobble across the line.

 

Still a nice model though. I'm warming to it.

HbyR3243-K1-loco-08-EditSm.jpg

 

P

It would be very interesting to know how you deal with this - soak in hot water perhaps and then straighten?

 

Thanks,   John.

[G-BOAF]

It would be very interesting to know how you deal with this - soak in hot water perhaps and then straighten?

 

Thanks,   John.

given that Porcy Mane says he's 'warming to it', maybe he can tell us if this solves the problem :-p

 

I'm guessing that the softening point of the plastic is well above 100degs. I'm guessing an oven may be required, but at that temperature the potential for things to go from Banana to Pear shaped is high.

Can someone advise?

 

This really should be a case of Hornby producing some spare running plates for affected models... Something for them to consider in the new year.