West End Workbench

[jwealleans]

Well, John, I hadn't noticed, but looking hard at the photos in Tatlow I can see that you're entirely right.  Parkside lose one Brownie point.  Even the fairly late in life BR shot still has the open axleguards.

 

It won't be done for the weekend, but now noted, it will be done sometime.

[cctransuk]

Well, John, I hadn't noticed, but looking hard at the photos in Tatlow I can see that you're entirely right.  Parkside lose one Brownie point.  Even the fairly late in life BR shot still has the open axleguards.

 

It won't be done for the weekend, but now noted, it will be done sometime.

 

Parkside use their BR 12' WB chassis for this one - understandable really.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[bubbles2]

One observation - it would not have been suitable for pre-Nationalisation use anyway - it's got BR axleguards.

 

For that matter, in very early post-Nationalisation livery - no black patches and LNER lettering style - it is highly unlikely to have been fitted with BR axleguards.

 

Sorry - such details stand out to me, but I know many would consider it nit-picking - which it is, really!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Is that Thomas lurking in the back ground John?

[jwealleans]

Just a couple of pictures from Southwold - Thurston's last show and I managed to forget my camera. These are on my phone and the quality isn't quite what I might have hoped.

 

Roughly ten years after the idea was floated, we ran a Hunt Special:

 

 

I also liked the sight of multiple J15s - my Gibson one on the coal passing the Hornby one shunting.

 

 

Come the first shows for Wickham Market we'll have enough of these and D16s to run the whole layout, but we shouldn't complain.

Edited October 26, 2018 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

As someone elsewhere helpfully keeps reminding us all, there are only two and a half weeks to our first show with Grantham. This creates a modicum of pressure to finish all those things we foolishly volunteered to have ready by then. So there's been quite a bit of catching up and finishing off, not to mention outscoping (for those of you up to speed with today's business-friendly excuses for not doing something).

 

Following Mr King's lead, we should have plenty of dirty black locomotives to remind everyone what the railway is really about. The two O4s were renumbered for Barrow Hill, but that was all that was done at the time.

 

 

 

This one is 4479's own, suitably renumbered and upgraded to O4/3.

 

 

Bachmann's lovely J11 as well, now brought down to a more workaday appearance.

 

 

 

A last minute addition to the loco roster this week:

 

 

Following the arrival of suitable components, a number of carriages have been rebogied:

 

 

A number of Bachmann bogies have been prepared with NEM mountings so we can swap Kadees in as required.

 

 

One of the promised vehicles, a 52'6" PBV, almost complete (just needs handrails and handles). This is detached/attached somewhere, I'm sure 4479 will remember where.

 

 

The weathering shop has also been busy on some older items.

 

 

Wagons have also been weathered:

 

 

Others have been loaded:

 

 

and there is still an ongoing programme of building and refurbishing. These will probably be the last to make the cut as I'm off to Telford a week on Friday, so don't have any more free weekends.

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

In the post-show lull after Grantham, been catching up on the gardening and DIY which has been neglected for some weeks. I also started some work for Scottiedog which has been in the queue. This NER G4 Road Van is a Dan Pinnock kit - I was goign to say 'from a recent production', but I've had it almost two years and I don't know how long Scottiedog had it before that. Anyway, it's pretty much all done bar the shouting. Canny kit, as they all are, went together over 3 evenings with few problems.

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

Another one from the same batch (same box, in fact) for Scottiedog. NER Diagram G4 Tranship van. This is basically the same body as the G6 with different doors and bracing. This one put up a bit more of a fight due to the etches having been dropped (I suspect) which had caused the strapping to fold up and crease in places. Not too unhappy with it in the end, though.

 

 

Beamish have one of these:

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by jwealleans

[RonnieS]

Steady progress on the atlantics. For anyone who hasn't seen it on the Grantham thread, LNER4479 took this very fine picture of 3276 on the scenic board from Grantham which is being worked on at Ormesby:

 

 

In the works, 3275 has had the cylinders mounted and the new Comet crossheads fitted. The front bogie is also a Comet replacement, I think running trials beckon for this one next week.

 

 

I've had the offer of a better tender for 4412 so the WSM one may well end up as a sludge carrier.

 

 

Finally having looked at the finish I've managed on these 3, I've decided the odd colour on 4444 will have to go and it will go in for a repaint in due course along with two other green engines which I have to refinish.

 

 

To conclude, a couple of previews for you of items which will feature later this year:

 

On Sunday at Doncaster my attention was drawn to this, in a tatty box and shrinkwrapped but only £57. Got to be worth that even if it didn't run.

 

 

I went to drop it behind Tony Wright's table and he was kind enough to give it a clean, an oil and a test. Not only did it go, it ran very nicely indeed on his test track. Layout running on Monday night, however, showed that with the current, original, whitemetal chassis there's not enough sideplay to get it round 3' curves even without the tender. An etched chassis, which was the initial plan, is therefore back on the agenda along with a repaint and detail.

 

Finally, I also collected these from the very able Mr King.

 

 

These were on his thread recently and I believe one or two people may already have some. They're LNER meat containers, Container Diagram 15, as illustrated in the brown edition of Tatlow. Graeme has cast these, both container and corresponding conflat, from my masters. I shall be detailing these and completing them (including transfers) in due course but I'm sure Graeme will be happy to oblige anyone who might feel the need for one or two in the meantime.

Quite interested in this Container. Could you give me some contact details please for Mr King?

[jwealleans]

Certainly. You can PM him on here (he posts regularly in the 'Wright Writes' and 'Grantham - the Streamliner Years' threads) or through his thread on the LNER Forum.

 

I'd like to think that within the next few weeks I'll complete the rest of the rake which I so signally failed to do in time for Grantham show. You will have seen the completed example, I assume?

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by jwealleans

[jwealleans]

NER vans about done. Mulling over what to do next (after a long list of domestic tasks).

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by jwealleans

[Dale]

Perhaps a complete contrast, something great and possibly western?

[jrg1]

Another one from the same batch (same box, in fact) for Scottiedog. NER Diagram G4 Tranship van. This is basically the same body as the G6 with different doors and bracing. This one put up a bit more of a fight due to the etches having been dropped (I suspect) which had caused the strapping to fold up and crease in places. Not too unhappy with it in the end, though.

 

 

Beamish have one of these:

 

Nice models-sad to read that there was etching damage.  One dodge I use to retrieve bent etches is a silver steel roller mounted in an old roller handle.  Placing the etch on a rubber mat and rolling over the damage a few times should straighten it out.

[jwealleans]

I laid them out flat on a cutting mat and drew the handle of a scalpel gently over them - they acquired something of a curve, but this tended to hold the ends against the model. As you can see, the strapping etches are especially long and fragile and I suspect particularly susceptible to this kind of thing.

 

something great and possibly western?

Just you calm down, young fellow-me-lad. I have my two year lead time to maintain. It has now found its way to me, though.

[PenrithBeacon]

I appreciate that some of the railway companies had trans-shipment sheds at appropriate points, but trans-ship vans? When, where and how were they used, please.

 

Regards

Edited October 7, 2015 by PenrithBeacon

[jwealleans]

That little foray into the North Eastern over, it's time to finish off these meat containers. LNER4479 resolutely refers to the train we run on Grantham as 'meat empties' even though Mr King and I have bullied him into accepting that in fact it's almost all fish vans. These may start to restore the balance a little.

 

Graeme cast me up 6 of these and only one was completed for the Grantham show (as shown in post 684 above). Now I know what do do, though, the rest should follow on a little more swiftly.

 

The remaining containers with flash removed, washed and then primed ready for the extra detail required:

 

 

Two of the D 60 flats mobile and now with brake gear started (from the Mainly Trains LNER brake gear etch).

 

 

The remaining three flats, on one of which you can see the brass angle glued underneath to ensure rigidity. In front are the Comet W-iron units I've made up for them. They're a bit of a mixture, these as I've been using up what I had in the drawer - I generally use MJT rocking units, but the Comet ones came to me in a bundle of bits and bobs. One of the two running ones has a Comet C27 9' wagon chassis but I was not completely convinced by that. Bill's springing units would be just as good and will probably appear on future container flats which I have planned.

 

 

Adding brake gear to these will not be the most exciting process to photograph, so I shall probably not be updating for a few days.

Edited October 11, 2018 by jwealleans

[grob1234]

Hello Jonathan,

 

Just harking back to your lovely build of the Leeds Quint Set...

 

I have a couple of questions, and I can't seem to find out too much about it from the books I have.

 

What loco would have hauled the service?

 

Would it have been run as a set in isolation, or as in BR days would it have had other coaches in the formation too?

 

Its a kit I am very interested in building, now I am well versed in the use of the MJT articulation units (very good they are too I might add)

 

Thanks very much.

[jwealleans]

Now then, Tom, you're opening a can of worms here. Did anyone tell you carriages are almost as addictive as wagons?

 

The Leeds Dining Set (was that it's official title?) ran for all its life in two trains - the 10.10 from King's Cross to Leeds (and also Bradford, Harrogate, Hull and others), returning on the 17:30 from Leeds, arriving King's Cross 21:25.

 

Looking at the 1936-7 Carriage Workings, depending on the day of the week this ran to between 15 and 17 vehicles Down and 14 and 16 Up. For the layout we've settled on 9 vehicles maximum, but as the Quint is shorter we can accommodate 10 in the formation.

 

I can send you an example CWP if you like. It's an exercise in itself working out what diagram different vehicles were and I've had a great deal of help with this, especially from John Smart.

 

The definitive work up to now is the Banks/Carter book here. This covers the Leeds expresses and also the principle of 'portions' which the ECML used extensively.

 

For motive power under the LNER, you'd have an A1 pacific as soon as they were available, then A1/A3 and possibly A4. From Doncaster, however you'd have a C1 until about 1935 when bridges were strengthened to allow the pacifics to work through. A C1 wouldn't be completely unknown on the working from King's Cross either.

 

The kit is designed to work with MJT components and is a pleasure to build. There's no underframe supplied and the underframes on two of the cars were rebuilt in 1927, so that had to be scratchbuilt for my era. The Isinglass drawing is indispensable.

 

If you do decide to go for a set, let me know and I can let you have some photographs and drawings I obtained from the Search Engine.

[grob1234]

Now then, Tom, you're opening a can of worms here. Did anyone tell you carriages are almost as addictive as wagons?

 

The Leeds Dining Set (was that it's official title?) ran for all its life in two trains - the 10.10 from King's Cross to Leeds (and also Bradford, Harrogate, Hull and others), returning on the 17:30 from Leeds, arriving King's Cross 21:25.

 

Looking at the 1936-7 Carriage Workings, depending on the day of the week this ran to between 15 and 17 vehicles Down and 14 and 16 Up. For the layout we've settled on 9 vehicles maximum, but as the Quint is shorter we can accommodate 10 in the formation.

 

I can send you an example CWP if you like. It's an exercise in itself working out what diagram different vehicles were and I've had a great deal of help with this, especially from John Smart.

 

The definitive work up to now is the Banks/Carter book here. This covers the Leeds expresses and also the principle of 'portions' which the ECML used extensively.

 

For motive power under the LNER, you'd have an A1 pacific as soon as they were available, then A1/A3 and possibly A4. From Doncaster, however you'd have a C1 until about 1935 when bridges were strengthened to allow the pacifics to work through. A C1 wouldn't be completely unknown on the working from King's Cross either.

 

The kit is designed to work with MJT components and is a pleasure to build. There's no underframe supplied and the underframes on two of the cars were rebuilt in 1927, so that had to be scratchbuilt for my era. The Isinglass drawing is indispensable.

 

If you do decide to go for a set, let me know and I can let you have some photographs and drawings I obtained from the Search Engine.

 

Jonathan,

 

First of all I must apologise. In my haste to obtain information, I didn't full search my own copy of LNER Passenger Trains and Formations. Of course, your Leeds 'quint' is indeed there with a rather nice shot of an A3 on PG55. An example CWP would be nice though if you don't mind, with 10 coaches being an ideal number for this formation. I suppose as often the case it's a matter of compromise as to what to include in the formation. I find identifying the specific diagrams pertaining to a working challenging!

 

Well, I began by coach building, my Coronation build being a bit of a baptism of fire, but the confidence I have gained in actually building a set that actually works, is immense! I'm already addicted to coach building, and have many projects in the pipe line. Quints, Quads, Triplets... plus the all the other diagrams. Not to mention the J69 I have ordered. Incidentally, I began looking at wagon kits just the other day, and I feel I am on a slippery slope. I must remain calm and try not to buy too many kits!!! The Coronation will be in the paint shop very soon, so I hope to have something meaningful to show you there. Once thats done, I can work on perfecting my 'teak' finish. By the way you're absolutely right about having the correct drawings to work from. They have been invaluable in my build so far.

 

Thanks for your continued support, I look forward to hearing about how you use the Quint set operationally.

Edited October 12, 2015 by grob1234

[jwealleans]

Well, you did ask, so here goes. I don't have my notes with me so I can't be completely accurate, but I'll do my best from memory.

 

First, this is the source document. Grantham is set 1935 - 38, so we look at as many of the documents from that era as we can find (more always welcome). Robert Carroll of this and other parishes provides an invaluable service making these Carriage Working documents available via his Yahoo group. This small excerpt is from one such document. Out of respect for Robert's efforts and the copyright on the document, I shan't be putting any more of it up, but for the purposes of explanation here it is essential.

 

This is the GN main line working for 1938-9. KX - Leeds was still regarded as 'GN' rather than East Coast and you'll see that all the carriages are numbered '4nnnn', indicating that they're GN Area stock.

 

 

So, the 10.10 am from King's Cross, train reference 324 down.

 

Reading back from the engine, we see a BT as the leading vehicle. The 'class' is given as 41360, but the 'K' here indicates that this is the actual number of the vehicle to be used. its final destination is Harrogate, where it will arrive at 14:43. It has 4 axles (2 bogies), weighs 32 tons and carries 24 third class seats. From that we can deduce it's a 4 compartment BT (6 per compartment 3rd class, 4 1st class). A quick glance through Harris, LNER Standard Gresley Carriages shows us that 41360 was a D 114 4 compartment BTK. I have built it as well, but I can't find a picture of it just now.

 

Moving back, we see an 8 compartment third (Saturdays only), another and then a BCK (3/3). That concludes the Harrogate portion. John Smart gave me the diagram number for the BCK, which is an ex-GN vehicle. I haven't produced that one but I did have a kit for this one which is externally identical:

 

 

If you have Banks/Carter then you will quickly grasp that carriages were frequently substituted as - inevitably - they did suffer faults.

 

Note that the next listed vehicle, a CK, is attached to the Harrogate portion at Leeds and so doesn't concern us.

 

Next we see the Quint set itself, which only goes as far as Leeds. Another TK is attached on Mondays only.

 

Behind that is the Bradford portion, BFK - TK - BTK(4) - BG. At the rear (and detaching, you'd assume, at Doncaster) are the Hull carriages, BTK(5), BCK(3/3) and (Mondays and Fridays only) another TK. You wonder whether 4990 was a typo for 4991 or whether they were somehow different. I also wonder about the alleged capacity of 30 for the Bradford BFK.

 

Now we had to cut that down to 10 vehicles while retaining the character of the train and the separate portions. Having that BG between two passenger carrying sections was a bit of a must. We also had to factor in what carriages and kits I had and what is available. What Graham and I came up with was:

 

BTK - TK - BCK (Harrogate)- Quint - BG (Bradford) - BCK (Hull).

 

The Up formation, similarly condensed, is:

 

BCK (Harrogate) - Quint - BFK(4) - BG (Bradford) - BTK(5) (Hull)

 

These may vary in the future as more carriages become available but in the short term I have to go through the same exercise for Teak set 5, which covers the 13:40 KX - York and Ripon, then later trains to Leeds, Bradford and Newcastle, then Halifax, Leeds, Bradford and Lincoln.

 

The sets are reshuffled between workings, so the Quint set (Teak Set 3) has the Quint plus six other carriages to cover the two sets. The GN BCK and the BG are used in both directions.

 

I hope that makes it clearer? I have to say that I've had a great deal of help with carriage identification and we're always on the lookout for more information, especially Carriage Working documents.

 

Finally, here are the two versions of Teak Set 3, posed when I was working out what couplings needed to go where. The Quint (light coloured roofs) has been reduced to a twin for this purpose.

 

10.10 ex-King's Cross:

 

 

17:40 ex Leeds:

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by jwealleans

[grob1234]

A feast of information. 

 

Clearly running prototypical formations is difficult, not least in the respect of the amount of research that's needed to find out what they comprised.

 

I can see how useful those carriage working documents are, and in combination with a book like Harris (which I have also got, just getting to grips with the nitty gritty of it) one would be able to form a very accurate picture of the formation.

 

Your explanation is very clear however I wonder how you managed to find 41360 in Harris LNER Carriages? I used the index of numbers in the back but came out with nothing...

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to prepare this, I apologise for my haste I have to go to work now! More later on

[Jol Wilkinson]

I appreciate that some of the railway companies had trans-shipment sheds at appropriate points, but trans-ship vans? When, where and how were they used, please.

 

Regards

David,

 

in the absence of a reply (as far as I can see) from any of the NER/LNER experts, I found this;

 

"1903 Westm. Gaz. 14 Jan. 5/1 We have ‘tranship’, or road-vans, specially appointed to work on branches and at stations where there is not the heavy traffic. These take goods from a certain starting-point to be delivered at a number of roadside stations."

 

The LNWR didn't call them the same but had NCPS vans with five compartments, each with it's own double doors, whereby parcels could be unloaded at specific stations or added for others designated destinations.

 

Jol

[jwealleans]

Beg pardon, David, I had forgotten your query. I will refresh my memory and try to expand on Jol's explanation. I do recall that the NER made extensive use of them - the bogie version which I still haven't put together ran to 100 examples, IIRC.

[jwealleans]

how you managed to find 41360 in Harris LNER Carriages?

Two different books, I suspect. You're looking in this book, which i think was his last?

 

I'm looking at this one which is much more useful for my purposes. It only covers the principal Gresley stock for the LNER, so no end vestibule or streamliner stock, but it's arranged by type of carriage and diagram. Knowing you're looking for a BTK(4) makes finding the diagram number and year of building very easy.

 

Year of building? Because after about 1934 underframes were welded rather than riveted and the trussing is different. But you knew that.

[great northern]

Two different books, I suspect. You're looking in this book, which i think was his last?

 

I'm looking at this one which is much more useful for my purposes. It only covers the principal Gresley stock for the LNER, so no end vestibule or streamliner stock, but it's arranged by type of carriage and diagram. Knowing you're looking for a BTK(4) makes finding the diagram number and year of building very easy.

 

Year of building? Because after about 1934 underframes were welded rather than riveted and the trussing is different. But you knew that.

Many thanks Jonathan. I didn't have that one, but now I shall shortly, and I found a copy at a rather better price too.

[jwealleans]

Pleasure, Gilbert. That one is my preferred volume.

 

For anyone looking for the rest of the diagrams, the NERA publish all of them in 4 volumes very reasonably priced. They're only outline drawings and there's no information with them but they are useful nonetheless.