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York Show 2015


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I take all your comments on board, and please be in no doubt, I enjoyed my day out and was appreciative of the effort put in by everyone. I wasn't primarily talking about DitD but it does seem that its not particularly important to the exhibitor what the visitor thinks. Fair enough I'll adjust my expectations and my apologies for any offence taken.

 

What is the motivation for exhibiting though? As a relatively recent returner, I am genuinely interested to know.

 

I am in the early stages of building a layout with my son, but I doubt it would be of exhibitable standard somehow!

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HI All

 

Being a trader an exhibitor and an exhibition manager as well it gets my back up a little when i see constructive criticism thrown back is such a way as to say some times Nothing happens and we are taking time of to do this for you!!

 

Why do you do it then some sort of penance to the hobby.

 

Now before you all start I've be criticized slaged of in all 3 roles, some people do go to shows to see movement others snails pace under speed shunting the hobby is what ever floats your boat I suppose but its those that pay at the door that keep the shows going so that's something layout operators should think of as we are in the entertainment business.

 

 

Exhibition managers have to try to cater for most if they can so not every layouts going to be what you want to see but that's life.

 

Regards Arran   

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Sure, we give up time and effort to exhibit our layouts. But the pleasure we get from it far outweighs the work involved otherwise all we would be doing it for is to boost our own egos by letting the punters marvel at our wonderful creation. I hope nobody does it for that reason alone!

 

Some people seem to forget that we (as exhibitors - I have been doing it for 35 years with many layouts) are part of the entertainment industry. We are as much a part of a show as somebody on a theatre stage.

 

If people come along, see a very nice layout but nothing much seems to be happening on it and they go away disappointed, we have failed. They may not come again.

 

Even on a simple shunting plank it is possible to make it entertaining by having a laugh and a chat with the people viewing. I have one layout that has the grand total of two points on scene that has had people watching for nearly 30 minutes, usually by getting youngsters in the crowd to choose which truck goes where.

 

It is not difficult and quite frankly, if people see exhibiting as a boring chore that they don't enjoy, then it is time for them to pack it in. It is too much like hard work to do it if you don't really enjoy it and don't get real pleasure from it.

 

If the paying punters don't come, there is no show and all our wonderful exhibition only layouts (those that never get set up at home because of space or lack of operating interest) might as well go in the nearest skip because nobody would ever see them.

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I too am old enough to remember the miners' strike when power cuts were part of the consequences which we had to endure. We were exhibiting at the Cathcart Show in Glasgow when suddenly all power was cut, the lights went out and everyone groaned. Not a layout movement anywhere. Suddenly a cheer went up. Someone from Renfrewshire MRC had brought a clockwork loco, would it up and it was scooting round their continuous run layout!

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I remember seeing a television programme about a painter who lived on a boat on the Norfolk Broads and made a living from selling his paintings to tourists. The person interviewing started to ask him about his art. He corrected them with the comment, "This isn't art, this is painting. Visitors on holiday don't want to buy art, they want a souvenir of their holiday and that means a painting with a windmill and a boat, so I paint pictures of windmills and boats." 

If you go to an exhibition at a major art gallery, however, you wont see decorative pantings of windmills and boats. You will see art. Some of it you may not like, some you may not understand and some you may feel doesn't achieve what it set out to do but all of it should be challenging and inspiring and all will be a sincere expression of what the artists' were attempting to portray. If you go to the art exhibition and see a beautifully rendered painting of a bleak and atmospheric view of the flat and featureless Norfolk landscape you wouldn't "offer feedback" to the artist by telling him it would be more entertaining to the visitors if it had a windmill and a boat. You don't look at an exhibition of paintings and complain they don't do much or that they didn't keep the kids amused.

My view is that an exhibition of model railways is more like an exhibition of paintings than it is a show at the theatre. The layouts should be appreciated for what they are not what they do. A top quality layout will hold the attention even if nothing is moving. Up at Elgin Model Fair last year the models which seemed to hold the attention of the public the most were the military dioramas where nothing at all moved but the execution and level of detail was captivating. That room was often too crowded to get into. I think at Aberdeen last year there were three layouts that didn't run at all. Two were exhibited to show how they were being constructed and one was a finished static model. I wonder if we create an expectation of trains constantly running by exhibiting layouts where that is the case. Perhaps the answer is not for all layouts to have trains moving all the time but to educate the visitor that the hobby is about more than just running trains.

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I can see where you are coming from, and I have some sympathy for your point view, but I don't think it holds up as a comparison. Are the viewers to stand mute in front of the layout offering no praise or admiration either? No questions are to be asked of the maker about how they achieved this or where they sourced that?

 

I'm wondering to some extent whether an exhibition actually provides an extended away 'club' for the exhibitors to meet and socialise, and the visitors are something of an annoyance.

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I remember seeing a television programme about a painter who lived on a boat on the Norfolk Broads and made a living from selling his paintings to tourists. The person interviewing started to ask him about his art. He corrected them with the comment, "This isn't art, this is painting. Visitors on holiday don't want to buy art, they want a souvenir of their holiday and that means a painting with a windmill and a boat, so I paint pictures of windmills and boats." 

 

If you go to an exhibition at a major art gallery, however, you wont see decorative pantings of windmills and boats. You will see art. Some of it you may not like, some you may not understand and some you may feel doesn't achieve what it set out to do but all of it should be challenging and inspiring and all will be a sincere expression of what the artists' were attempting to portray. If you go to the art exhibition and see a beautifully rendered painting of a bleak and atmospheric view of the flat and featureless Norfolk landscape you wouldn't "offer feedback" to the artist by telling him it would be more entertaining to the visitors if it had a windmill and a boat. You don't look at an exhibition of paintings and complain they don't do much or that they didn't keep the kids amused.

 

My view is that an exhibition of model railways is more like an exhibition of paintings than it is a show at the theatre. The layouts should be appreciated for what they are not what they do. A top quality layout will hold the attention even if nothing is moving. Up at Elgin Model Fair last year the models which seemed to hold the attention of the public the most were the military dioramas where nothing at all moved but the execution and level of detail was captivating. That room was often too crowded to get into. I think at Aberdeen last year there were three layouts that didn't run at all. Two were exhibited to show how they were being constructed and one was a finished static model. I wonder if we create an expectation of trains constantly running by exhibiting layouts where that is the case. Perhaps the answer is not for all layouts to have trains moving all the time but to educate the visitor that the hobby is about more than just running trains.

 

There is a huge difference between an intentionally static diorama model, where nobody expects anything to move and a model railway, where they do!

 

If a layout is being exhibited as a static display to demonstrate construction then that is all well and good as long as it is just  the odd one in a show.

 

It is after all, what sets our branch of the hobby apart from all others, the ability to recreate accurately the working patterns of the real thing.

 

I have often said that a superbly executed model of a dull scene usually results in a dull model, no matter how well the modelling is done.

 

There have been many times when I have looked at layouts and enjoyed the modelling even when nothing is moving. If however, that continues for any length of time I move on and so do most other people. The ones with the crowds that stay are the ones that have some movement/operational interest, whether it be an all action tailchaser or a well operated shunting layout.

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Guest G567281

Some pictures from an excellent long weekend at York. You're always very well looked after as an exhibitor and our thanks go to Maclolm and his team. The layout behaved itself as it usually does and what comments came my way were complimentary. Thanks to LNER4479 for putting in a lunchtime shift on Saturday, help is always appreciated.Some new stock at the show: on Saturday we were treated to this Sentinel railcar, scratchbuilt by David Lloyd who is the builder of Guisborough. He spent his winter putting this together in a camper van. It goes every bit as well as it looks.Marske_York_Sentinel_1_zpsqxtqrkfq.jpgMarske_York_Sentinel_2_zpsifgktzb0.jpgMarske_York_Sentinel_3_zpsrsxrhgpb.jpgMartin has built this 298 class tank since the last outing:Marske_York_298_zpskl3kpzkv.jpgHe's presently working on a 901.Marske_York_Tennant_1_zps6zvkeasv.jpgMarske_York_Tennant_2_zpsubfnso9c.jpgBoth the above are from NER Days kits (formerly Medley Models?)He's also made this rather splendid Brougham which will eventually travel the layout on an OCT.marske_york_Brougham_zpshiz6nmec.jpgWe had one or two new wagons - this has been on my thread, as I lettered it, but it's now been loaded.marske_york_dumb_buffer_zpsfqnozrex.jpgThe NB open and LNWR van are new. The van is a whitemetal kit and weighs almost as much as me.Marske_york_nb_open_zps0wqugupq.jpgPeter (who

made the wagons) also displayed a pair of NER coaches he's scratchbuilding using largely the David Jenkinson method. The beading was cut out on one of the Silhouette cutters which there has been a deal of talk about in recent times.Marske_York_third_zpsaqhea4wr.jpgMarske_York_brake_third_zps8c6rledh.jpgThey attracted quite a bit of interest, rightly so.... and the sun shone.Marske_York_goods_shed_zpsuc26wcmp.jpg

Contact details for NER Days kits would be much appreciated here in Canada - many thanks.

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Guest G567281

Contact details for NER Days kits would be much appreciated here in Canada - many thanks.

Forgot to mention, I luv the additional rolling stock. Particularly David's Sentinel Railcar. Excellence all round.

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Guest 40-something

As a 'punter' and an exhibitor the most important thing for me is to see movement.  As a punter I want to see movement to keep my interest, as an exhibitor I keep things moving to keep the visitors interested.  Its also very important for the exhibitor to converse with the visitors if prompted, and sometimes even if not prompted because some visitors are too shy to ask questions. 

 

I usually find that the star layouts of exhibitions have nothing running and are manned by a team who look like they would rather be anywhere else, or have terrible chips on their shoulders.  Usually these layouts have very few people in front of them.  As a contrast, one of the best layouts on the Scottish circuit is Hazelbank, there is always something moving, the standard of modelling is incredible and you could not meet a friendlier bunch of operators.  As a consquence, this layout is always mobbed.

 

Exhibiting shouldnt be treated as a chore, its an honour to be invited to an exhibition, especially as the organisers are paying expenses for fuel and accommodation, and in the majority of cases, catering.  If you see exhibiting as a chore then you really must have a think about what you are doing.  I personally love it, the layouts I operate are operated in a prototypical manner except that things are kept moving, not at trainset speeds, and not at so-called scale speeds, but at speeds that seem right for the type of layout. 

 

I really enjoy exhibiting in places I've never been and would likely never go otherwise, I really enjoy meeting modellers from all parts of the country (and Europe) and I really enjoy chatting to visitors who have paid money to come to the exhibition, and are spending money at the traders, keeping the hobby alive.

 

At the Preston show recently, I was chatting to a visitor who was showing me photo's of his home layout which far surpassed any of the layouts at the show.  This gent was very humble and genuinely appreciative of my comments - I regularly keep in touch with him and will be using some of his modelling methods in my next layout.

 

At the end of a day, this is a hobby, where it should be enjoyed no matter what side of the barrier you are on.  

Edited by 40-something
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I've been put on the naughty boy bench so I have no idea whether this comment will be posted. 

 

Anyway, as this thread is about the York Show and now exhibiting generally, does anyone think, as I do, that the York Show organisers should be looking for an alternative venue? It seems that where ever you got in the racecourse venue it is crowded.

 

Bob

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I've been put on the naughty boy bench so I have no idea whether this comment will be posted. 

 

Anyway, as this thread is about the York Show and now exhibiting generally, does anyone think, as I do, that the York Show organisers should be looking for an alternative venue? It seems that where ever you got in the racecourse venue it is crowded.

 

Bob

I haven't been to since it moved to the racecourse as I am in the wrong bit of the country now but I presume at least the racecourse doesn't have the big columns that used to very much get in the way at the old venue. From a comment earlier about the venue being the best available it sounds as if the organisers have considered alternatives but haven't found any better ones.

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As a first time visitor, I liked it as there was plenty of light, which is not always the case. On Sunday it wasn't crowded, in fact the opposite by early-afternoon. I liked the fact it was on several floors, but I had to go round a few times to make sure I didn't miss anything. The catering facilities were pretty good with plenty of seats, and parking was easy.

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Crowded yes, but not overly so, it also has masses of free parking, the location's part time use as a racecourse floods the building with natural light, you're surrounded by grass and it's a on a long bank holiday weekend which curiously for the UK seems always be sunny in York.

 

Every level is accessible by lift as well making is very good for those with less sure footing or in a wheelchair.

 

I guess also that there is now an longstanding understanding/goodwill between the railway club and the racecourse that ensures this weekend every year is for the exhibition.

 

The alternative to me would be some sort of location like the NEC or a large sports hall, would such a place be able to offer the guarantee of the same Easter weekend every year, free parking and the general ambience of York racecourse, plus it just wouldn't be the same.

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As a first time visitor, I liked it as there was plenty of light, which is not always the case. On Sunday it wasn't crowded, in fact the opposite by early-afternoon. I liked the fact it was on several floors, but I had to go round a few times to make sure I didn't miss anything. The catering facilities were pretty good with plenty of seats, and parking was easy.

Good point about plenty of light, including sometimes getting direct natural sunlight on a model, which can transform its appearance.

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I've been put on the naughty boy bench so I have no idea whether this comment will be posted. 

 

Anyway, as this thread is about the York Show and now exhibiting generally, does anyone think, as I do, that the York Show organisers should be looking for an alternative venue? It seems that where ever you got in the racecourse venue it is crowded.

 

Bob

NO!

 

It is much easier to get around the racecourse than in the the old days of two halls, crossing busy roads. And you can park at the Racecourse, excellent shuttle service from the station, even the park and ride will drop you off at the end of the road. Yes food and drink is expensive but so are other venues in York. While I was enjoying the show my wife queued for 45 minutes to get into Betty's Tea Room for a obscenely expensive cup of tea and slice of cake. Do what I do, take your own or buy from the nearby Tesco on your way in.

 

Many shows are crowded, not a reason to find a new venue. Warley is usually very crowded on a Saturday lunch time -is there a larger venue than the NEC in the Midlands? Bigger shows attract bigger crowds, and the numbers are needed for revenue to pay for the venue.

 

Personally York Model railway Show at the Racecourse is the best move ever made and is the only annual UK I have never actually missed, despite living overseas at times.

 

Mike Wiltshire

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Never seen a Sentinel Railcar (in lovely photos above) with a red buffer beam before , correct ??

It's difficult to tell with contemporary black & white photo's.

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Never seen a Sentinel Railcar (in lovely photos above) with a red buffer beam before , correct ??

 

Not many if any people have given the time when it ran

Edited by 40F
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Which trader (on one of the Mezzanine floors) was selling foam inserts to convert Really Useful Boxes into something more useful (i.e. stock-boxes)?

 

I really enjoyed this year's show - probably one of the best for some years.

 

I agree with the comments about slow (or non-existant) running on Diesels in the Duchy. It's an outstanding layout but I assumed the lack of movement was down to electical problem. I'm sure when I've seen it in the past there have been regular trains running past in addition to shunting locos around the depot. Hopefully there will be a bit more movement at Showcase next month.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

I suspect the trader with the inserts you mentioned is Ten Commandments www.cast-in-stone.co.uk

 

steve

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I've followed this thread and the "criticisms" levelled at York could be attributed to exhibitions throughout the country, so it's a bit unfair inferring that they are unique to It when they're no worse than most and much better than many. York has many features which make it unique among our premier league of shows. One is the the character of the venue which is easily accessible, whatever your mode of transport; offers good light and has excellent facilities such as parking and catering.

 

Since 1993 I've only missed one York show, 'always visit on the busiest day but can honestly say I've never seen it any more crowded than any other show on this scale and anybody who thinks it's crowded in the current era obviously wasn't around in the days of the De Grey Rooms and Assembly rooms. There are any number of shows which have either deteriorated over time or never really got going, York has stood the test of time and long may it continue to do so. To transplant it to characterless shed in the middle of nowhere and it suddenly isn't York anymore, it becomes just like any other - complete with the issues every show will have.

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Anyway, as this thread is about the York Show and now exhibiting generally, does anyone think, as I do, that the York Show organisers should be looking for an alternative venue? It seems that where ever you got in the racecourse venue it is crowded.

 

I guess you attended on the Saturday?? Saturday was very crowded but the other two days, were much quieter, and more relaxed so it was much easier to move around and see what you wanted...

 

Unfortunately that is totally beyond the organisers control. It is not their fault that 60%+ of the attendees choose to attend in the first three hours instead of being spread evenly over the three days...

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I guess you attended on the Saturday?? Saturday was very crowded but the other two days, were much quieter, and more relaxed so it was much easier to move around and see what you wanted...

 

 

I attended Saturday, arrived on the shuttle bus around 1045am, walked straight to the paydesk and in. (I would probably have come sunday but the trains were replaced by buses and a 40min journey was being forecast as 2 hours!!!!).

 

Inside was busy but certainly not crowded. Plenty of room to float around. I was able to see pretty much all layouts with little fuss, just a modicum of patience. The only one I could not get near was Rumbling Bridge. It does take a good few hours of steady progress to see everything at York, especially if you are too tight to buy a programme like me but sports hall based shows can be just as bad and can often suffer from drastic queues for catering, whilst York isn't cheap, it is well set up for the numbers of people to be served.

 

I certainly thought there was more circulation room than other big shows and did not get barged into as you might sometimes suffer.

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For some of us, who will travel some great distances to go to York, because we like the show, it is part and parcel of a long weekend visiting York City with the wife, and the Show by myself, and enjoying the Social side too.
Thus we can avoid the crush times....

Edited by Penlan
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