ICI Hoppers from Hatton's in Partnership with Oxford Rail

[66738]

Any photos of what you have done please?

Still a bit of work to do yet, blending in here and there but here are two of them. I apologise for the terrible photo and I know my work is nowhere near the quality of most modellers on here, but I've only recently plucked up the courage to started to experiment with weathering.

Edited October 11, 2018 by 66738

[Terrier79]

Still a bit of work to do yet, blending in here and there but here are two of them. I apologise for the terrible photo and I know my work is nowhere near the quality of most modellers on here, but I've only recently plucked up the courage to started to experiment with weathering.

Nice work! Taking back the heavy brown on the data panel looks good, as though it’s been wiped with a dirty rag.

[Fordbank]

Mine have arrived and I had always intended to give the weathered ones a 'bit more' treatment any way. Gratified that the datat panels can be brightened up a little and think they might also benefit from a little blow of something a little lighter reddish brown too just to give the 'bloom' that I remember over and above the unremitting dark brown colour of the wagons long in service. I have two clean ones, one which will be virtually out of works and one that'll be a half way house as again that's the way I remember the things. Excited and sadly unable to play ICI hoppers as off to MK to play 'Great Electric Trains' all weekend....

Vivre La Difference!

Plenty of colour variation on some rakes of the hoppers, whilst at other times they appeared more uniform:-

                                                     Photo: Ram_69

 

I've included a couple of unweathered  'ex-works' examples in my rake and plan to do a couple of intermediates.

 

I'll post a couple more prototype photos on the Peak Forest Revived Thread for those who do not own a copy of  Paul Harrison's excellent book, 'An Illustrated History of the ICI Hopper Wagon'

Edited October 13, 2018 by Fordbank

[zr2498]

Hattons have very kindly exchanged 3 over weathered hoppers for pristine versions. Unfortunately I could only get TOPS era as all pristine or lightly weathered pre TOPS are sold out. So a conversion will be needed as the axle box design changed to roller bearings from oil pad, plus a plate is needed to carry the runnng number. I will then weather them to a lesser degree. The bogie conversion will not be easy (they do not have spare bogies), either with styrene or perhaps white metal castings. Transfers will be another issue. I reckon this will be easier than trying to cut back the heavy weathering but only time will tell.

[locoholic]

I have received my order of weathered ICI hoppers - two each of the C, D and E models. In fact, I might as well have ordered six all the same, as they are indistinguishable due to the over-"weathering".

 

I shall be taking the matter up with Hattons, and also getting to work with the T Cut. I really think Hattons would have been quite justified sending these back to China to be re-painted so they even faintly resembled the samples.

[pharrc20]

Vivre La Difference!

Plenty of colour variation on some rakes of the hoppers, whilst at other times they appeared more uniform:-

PHV.12.10.90.Ram_69.jpg

Photo: Ram_69

PF.37108 & 37419.6F05Tunstead-Oakleigh.jpg

 

I've included a couple of unweathered 'ex-works' examples in my rake and plan to do a couple of intermediates.

 

I'll post a couple more prototype photos on the Peak Forest Revived Thread for those who do not own a copy of Paul Harrington's excellent book, 'An Illustrated History of the ICI Hopper Wagon'

Harrington? I best check my birth certificate lol

Paul

[Fordbank]

Harrington? I best check my birth certificate lol

Paul

I've just checked, Paul, and the post definitely says Harrison. Lol.

(Wouldn't want to obstruct further sales!)

[5162]

After a couple of e-mails I have received some feedback from Hattons on the latest 'weathered' hoppers. How they decided that they were weathered well enough to send them out I do not know. My opinion is that the very poor satin brown overpainting that Hattons call weathering is appalling and not 'fit for purpose'. However it seems that they will not recall the wagons for a proper weathering job and there seems to be a 'take it or leave it' stalemate. They have offered to take the latest 9 wagons back for a refund or exchange my pre TOPS 50's to 73 wagons for some pristine post TOPS wagons. That seems to be a non offer as I do not model the TOPS period. It would appear to be more work to remove the TOPS code and renumber etc as there are no transfers available. Yes I could print some transfers and yes I could weather them but why should I spend my time when this problem is due in my opinion to a lack of quality control on Hattons part. I did suggest that I would get the wagons professionally re-weathered  and send Hattons the bill. That suggestion was met with a firm response of 'No'. I ordered a full rake of 18 wagons, the other 9 being pristine and lightly weathered. I have weathered up the pristine wagons and I had been very pleased with the overall project until these latest wagons appeared. To send 9 wagons back and leave me with a rake of 9 doesn't seem to be a fair option to me. Im still considering my next steps but perhaps if everyone who is not pleased with their wagons complained directly we may get a change of heart on the part of Hattons. To be honest though I'm not holding my breath. A very poor situation and I think Hattons should be ashamed of their actions.     

[Tankdave]

Sounds like you will have to take the refund?

 

I was waiting for these weathered ones and I also think they look like junk. 

 

I went for the clean ones instead but I do model Tops era and I am very pleased with the hoppers, BTW I only have a rake of 9 and I think it looks ok at about the same length as 5.5 coaches.

[Pteremy]

Or you could be happy that a vehicle that is clearly important to you has been produced. May take a bit of effort to get it into the condition that you want but, hey, that is better than not having it. There are lots of vehicles that have not been produced in RTR. 

[5162]

Hi Pteremy, thanks for your comment. I have to say that I am really pleased with the basic model and was delighted when the project was announced. My issue is that weathering on the latest model, as others have stated, is nothing like the masters. My decision to buy the heavily weathered model was based on the masters. If the weathering could not match the masters in production we should have been told and then I would have gone for the pristine version and weathered them myself. Yes of course I'll work on them to try to recover them but I do think that Hattons need to take some responsibility for the production failures.

[drjcontroller]

I've had the same response from Hattons,"take it or leave it". They did offer a full refund or replacement with pristine post TOPS but as I model 1971 that's not really an option.

It's frustrating, one could almost make a case for misrepresentation on Hattons part but I'll just have to make the best of it. Going to try and completely strip all the paint off one of the wagons and take it from there.

[dogbox321]

I've had the same response from Hattons,"take it or leave it". They did offer a full refund or replacement with pristine post TOPS but as I model 1971 that's not really an option.

It's frustrating, one could almost make a case for misrepresentation on Hattons part but I'll just have to make the best of it. Going to try and completely strip all the paint off one of the wagons and take it from there.

 

Well Hattons must have known what were coming as they had photos on their website.  Just glad that I cancelled my order (think thats the only way large companies listern), and I have put the money towards other items.  I am surprised at Hattons tho - particularly now they are doing their own models, as it must have damaged their reputation.  On the other side of that - I suppose in hindsight - what did we expect to get for £1 extra, plus perhaps thats why they want their own production capacity, so they can control the product better..  Lets just hope the Class 66, does not end up as the Atlas one!

 

Regards,

 

C. 

[Ian Stewart]

Hmmm. Tricky chaps these hoppers!

 

I too grumbled when I saw the Hattons website photos of the production weathered hoppers, too grey.

 

On opening the boxes I was surprised to see a browner "wash", more what I was hoping for my later period.

 

I will follow the tips on here to liberate the data panels & other details.

 

I have had them running on friends' layouts and, if truth be told, they don't look that bad from a viewing distance.

 

Some work is needed on the coupling alignment, particularly when reversing a rake, and add some weight.

 

With 37s growling away, I enjoyed the sight of them running.

 

Where to now? Clocks about to go back, longer nights, fettling brushes out.

 

I have noticed that the wagons' colour does slightly vary depending on what light is used, and even the direction it is coming from.

Rule 1, always weather under the same lighting you will be running or exhibiting under.

 

Hattons have not delivered on the expected Version 2.

 

Modelling the later period when the hoppers ran in "Track Colour" livery I can cope with the weathered versions as supplied as a basis for some light fettling.

I would imagine that earlier period modellers who seem to want lighter weathering will not be so forgiving!

 

Will the 2 "not produced" late period hoppers be produced, and will the weathering be varied?

 

Unless Hattons clarify the points raised on this forum, Hattons Dave is going to be a busy boy at Warley!

[rubber duck]

Just received my twelve hoppers, must say I'm very impressed with the overall quality and would like to thank Hattons for producing a much requested model in RTR form, agree the weathering is not quite version 2 but Dave has already explained within this thread why it wasn't quite possible to recreate on a production line, Certainly not a deal breaker for me, 

[pharrc20]

Well I have had a good look at mine and I even ordered extra models from version 4A to 6BW. And more may follow next month..

 

I have started my remedial modelling work to remove and add detail as appropriate. Transfers in my collection will come in handy for redoing the black data panels and numbering.

 

As for the yellow id discs that should be kept clean these will have to cleaned off if the weathering can be gently removed without damaging the black ICIM and 19xxx numbers. Or new ones added.

 

As I am mainly modelling 1989 to 1991 most of mine can retain the letters but some colour will need adding to pick them out dirty yellowish.

 

I am aiming to have some running in blue diesel era at Hazel Grove show next weekend 27th/28th on the club layout Hazel Valley.

 

And in doing so it will in effect be time to retire the rake of 7 resin High Peak casters models that I first brought back in the late 80s and upon joining HGDMRS in 1996 vowed to make them run properly. And that I did with a lot of mods and I even managed to persuade Kevin the then Hazel Valley layout manager to let me improve their own rake of 7. And very pleased they were too especially since they tended to sit in the siding until then due to their poor running and top-heavy nature.

 

Cheers Paul

[gridwatcher]

I am with Paul. I always intended to top up the weathering on my 14 dirty ones and give one of the two pristine ones a light weather. The weathering over the TOPS panel is a bit over the top but looking at old photos in some cases the real things were totally obscured. I think the vitriol levelled at Hattons for the end product is totally out of step TBH. They aren't a dear wagon weathered or pristine and I have waited over 50 years for a decent ICI hopper. Get a grip lads. If you had paid £50 a pop for them you may have more grounds to moan. They are £20 odd each. Get some Jif on a cotton bud and give them a gentle rub, then get some paint and powders out and finish the job. (do some modelling?)

[stovepipe]

Post 297 has been quoted, where the weathering options were presented by Hattons. Everyone said style 2. In post 343, Hattons showed the weathered sample based on style 2, which is pretty close to what has been now delivered.

 

In the excitement about the pristine ones becoming available, next to no-one commented on the weathered sample. However at the point when the pristine ones where new in stock, it was possible to decide whether to get pristine or weathered.

 

I've got a mixture, and I'm finding the weathering can be taken back relatively easily to provide some variety. I'm modelling the 1970s, so I'm looking for 4 basic weathering levels.

[Barry O]

I dug out my copy of London Midland Steam in the Peak District (JR Hillier, Bradford Barton).. while it is Black and White a photo on page 42 taken by J D Darby caught my eye. 8F in LMS livery pulling a  train of filthy hoppers. Unfortunately I can't detect any raised ICI on the sides....

 

Baz

[gridwatcher]

I dug out my copy of London Midland Steam in the Peak District (JR Hillier, Bradford Barton).. while it is Black and White a photo on page 42 taken by J D Darby caught my eye. 8F in LMS livery pulling a  train of filthy hoppers. Unfortunately I can't detect any raised ICI on the sides....

 

Baz

 

Paul would know but I would think they will have had ICI on them in that era?

[gridwatcher]

One small design idiosyncracy to be aware of..... 

I was hoping to get away with a Smith's Instanster on the front wagon and one on the back with an oil lamp for my rake. (All of our loco fleet runs with Screw links both ends) Kadee #18s looked about the best option for ease of use along the rest of rake. Forget that. the 'NEM' pocket isn't an NEM pocket in the strict sense. KADEEs don't fit and are loose in the housing sliding in and out and not giving a reliable gap between wagons. When pushed right into 'NEM' housing they also foul the outer axle on the bogies, not good. The options are therefore use the Hattons tension locks which look like a wagon specific design (nope, hate them) or fit Smiths Instanters to the whole rake.... oh well here goes. That is actaully reasonably straight forward as the chassis and buffer beam there is plastic and the model can be slotted relatively easy for the 3 link/Instanter to be glued in place. ****You have been warned****

[pharrc20]

Paul would know but I would think they will have had ICI on them in that era?

Steam era yes definitely should have the raised letters. I think I have a copy of that book somewhere I will have a look to check.

Cheers Paul

[locoman462]

Has anyone given any thought to or alternatively sourced a supply of limestone suitable to make up loads for these wagons?

I never actually saw any of these trains in operation and all the photographs you see of the loaded hoppers suggest that the stone was very white in  colour. None of the various types and colours of ballast / gravel etc. currently available seem to be suitable as an alternative.

[cctransuk]

Has anyone given any thought to or alternatively sourced a supply of limestone suitable to make up loads for these wagons?

I never actually saw any of these trains in operation and all the photographs you see of the loaded hoppers suggest that the stone was very white in  colour. None of the various types and colours of ballast / gravel etc. currently available seem to be suitable as an alternative.

 

I'm sure that I have seen white stone granules for use in aquaria - try your local garden centre / pet shop.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[gridwatcher]

Has anyone given any thought to or alternatively sourced a supply of limestone suitable to make up loads for these wagons?

I never actually saw any of these trains in operation and all the photographs you see of the loaded hoppers suggest that the stone was very white in  colour. None of the various types and colours of ballast / gravel etc. currently available seem to be suitable as an alternative.

 

I reckon one of the woodland scenics fine white ballast looks pretty close. There is a white rather than grey version? I would be keen if someone did pre cut loads to 'drop in' which we could then coat with ballast or which came with the like?  There was an excellent range available but the lad went into another job area Were called MODEL RAILWAYS DIRECT?