ICI Hoppers from Hatton's in Partnership with Oxford Rail

[paul 27]

Any one purchased yet would like to see more views please.

[locoman462]

I  wonder if the detailing plates/printing is still there under all that grey paint.

Wagons are actually very dark brown, not grey, with a limited white wash on the lower hopper sides and bogies. The brown finish which completely covers all the data panels.

The wagon numbers can be just seen when closely observed but not from normal running viewing distance. I have tried lifting the weathering covering the number plates but with limited success. The weathering on the ICI lettering can be lightly scraped to reveal a lighter cream / brown appearance which at least gives a small break in the overall blandness of the wagon sides. Be carefull however as the letters are only lightly glued on to the side of the hopper and can flip off quite easily. The interior weathering is much better and in line with the photos that Hattons published when canvassing opinions on the preferred (and subsequently ignored) weathering styles.

All in all, we have an Ugly Duckling instead of the Swan we were led to believe we were getting. They do however run well despite their light weight.

[pharrc20]

Being fair.. they were offered around several times but with no takers they werent left with much choice.

I recall several appeals at the time to pick them up but no one wanted.

In perspective, is there even 12 MGR wagons preserved ? - i’d imagine their contribution to railways was much greater.

And therein lies the problem preserving wagons whatever their age... they cannot earn revenue unlike a carriage.

 

There was a proposal to take them to work on the GCR Mountsorrel branch project as they were high capacity and crucially vacuum-braked. As you say they were offered around to no takers sadly. And when the change of management occured at Tunstead that was it and they were quickly disposed. Even my two contacts didn't even know they had been scrapped until a good week after.

 

60 years for the hoppers verses at a guess 45 or so for MGRs? I think they both made an important contribution to railfreight in their time.

 

Anyway DW over now so can have a proper look at my hoppers I collected from Hatton's today.

 

Cheers Paul

[paul 27]

And therein lies the problem preserving wagons whatever their age... they cannot earn revenue unlike a carriage.

 

There was a proposal to take them to work on the GCR Mountsorrel branch project as they were high capacity and crucially vacuum-braked. As you say they were offered around to no takers sadly. And when the change of management occured at Tunstead that was it and they were quickly disposed. Even my two contacts didn't even know they had been scrapped until a good week after.

 

60 years for the hoppers verses at a guess 45 or so for MGRs? I think they both made an important contribution to railfreight in their time.

 

Anyway DW over now so can have a proper look at my hoppers I collected from Hatton's today.

 

Cheers Paul

 

  Can you show pictures.

[gridwatcher]

Hattons email to say picked/packed...... not long now for the last 12 

[pharrc20]

  Can you show pictures.

No photos to hand yet as only had a quick look at them last night but it almost looks as if they have been over sprayed a darker shade of brown which obscures the black data panel, overhead flashes and on the 1973 onwards versions the yellow TOPS wagon ID discs. Pretty sure these would need to be readable for ID and safety purposes? Model 6B is a bit of an oddity as it is numbered up as 19019 but had wide spaced lettering patches that from memory only was applied to two wagons 19039 and 19066 but I would need to check my own data and photo archive to be sure. 

 

I will try take some photos tonight when home.

 

Paul

[9FEd]

Heavy weathering: 

 

Light weathering; 

 

[Southernman46]

60 years for the hoppers verses at a guess 45 or so for MGRs? I think they both made an important contribution to railfreight in their time.

53 now for the first batches of MGR wagons .............. wow that's scary

[WILLIAM]

Model 6B is a bit of an oddity as it is numbered up as 19019 but had wide spaced lettering patches that from memory only was applied to two wagons 19039 and 19066 but I would need to check my own data and photo archive to be sure.

 

Paul

Yes I was wondering about that. Why choose to have an odd configuration for the only weathered post 1992 model? Not one of the multitude of other versions have these wide spaces letters.

[pharrc20]

Model 4BW 19033

 

Model 6BW 19019

 

Taken down at Hazel Grove clubrooms under fluorescent lights.

 

Cheers Paul

[panzerjaeger]

My order for 12 heavily weathered arrived this morning - and a buffer fell out of the first cardboard box I opened before I had time to remove the wagon from the plastic sleeve. I found the buffer but when trying to replace it, it fell out again and on checking another buffer found that a tiny 2 mm diameter collar which holds the buffer in place was missing. Despite a thorough search of the carpet and bench, it has disappeared. I checked the remainder of my order but nothing else was amiss. The missing collar is very small and I doubt my ability to make a replacement. An email is on its way to Hattons for their assistance.

 

The wagons have been sprayed in a very dark brown with a random coat of grey over the sloping sides and solebars plus a light dusting of white around the bogies. However, no two wagons have the same style of grey overspray on the wagon sides. The wagon interiors appear to have been individually weathered and no two are the same although this would not be apparent from normal viewing distances. Can anyone suggest a proprietary colour that would be suitable for a light overspray of the wagon exterior?

 

I haven't had chance to run any wagons yet but the back-to-back measurements seem to be OK. Many of the wheels have a splatter of battleship grey paint on both the axles and on the running surfaces although I doubt if this will affect their performance.

[WILLIAM]

I see after all the complaints Hattons have deleted there earlier posts showing the original

weathered examples.

Shame that so far they have decided to make no comment or even acknowledge the points raised.

[Hattons Dave]

Shouldn't  these have the larger ICI letters, I have ordered the early ones with plate bogies but these also seem to have

 the small letters, I see after all the complaints Hattons have deleted there earlier posts showing the original

  weathered examples.

 

Hi Paul,

 

I’m not aware of deleting any previous posts, if they’ve gone astray then I’ll speak to Andy Y to see if there are any issues.

 

However, if we’re thinking about the same images then I’ve just looked back and I believe they’re in Post #297 on Page 12 of this thread. I hope this helps.

 

 

In regards to the overall weathered effect on the production models, I appreciate there are some differences between the original weathering masters that were shown last year.

 

The models shown in the above post were all samples that had been hand finished by Mercig Studios to achieve a weathering master which was sent to the factory.  While we make every effort to replicate it, this is not always possible due to limitations in the mass production process.

 

Regarding ICI006CW and ICI006DW, we intend to pick up the conversation with Oxford in regards to outstanding and future versions but for the time being the released versions will be the only ones available.

 

Cheers,

Dave

[pharrc20]

Shouldn't these have the larger ICI letters, I have ordered the early ones with plate bogies but these also seem to have

the small letters, I see after all the complaints Hattons have deleted there earlier posts showing the original

weathered examples.

Post 1982 the small lettered hoppers with diamond frame bogies with roller bearings were gradually uprated with refurbished plate frame bogies with roller bearings as shown.. so 19019 small letters plate bogies roller bearings is correct.

 

ICIM I believe acquired a large quantity of the plate frame bogies from the similar John Summers/British Steel PHO iron-ore hoppers after this fleet became surplus following cessation of steelmaking at Shotton in 1979/80. Exact number of bogie pairs purchased is unknown but I'd estimate at least 90 pairs allowing them to replaced 84 diamond pairs plus spares for remainder of existing plate framed fleet.

Paul

[Fordbank]

Eagerly awaited, and now arrived...

A couple of photos  of the Hattons limestone hoppers in their natural habitat.........Peak Forest:

 

Clearly a lot of weathering and indeed unweathering (!) still to be done.

But a huge gap on Peak Forest Revived has now been filled.

 

More photos of the Hattons PHVs are on the layout thread for Peak Forest Revived,     http://www.rmweb.co....on-peak-forest/

 

 

[paul 27]

Post 1982 the small lettered hoppers with diamond frame bogies with roller bearings were gradually uprated with refurbished plate frame bogies with roller bearings as shown.. so 19019 small letters plate bogies roller bearings is correct.

 

ICIM I believe acquired a large quantity of the plate frame bogies from the similar John Summers/British Steel PHO iron-ore hoppers after this fleet became surplus following cessation of steelmaking at Shotton in 1979/80. Exact number of bogie pairs purchased is unknown but I'd estimate at least 90 pairs allowing them to replaced 84 diamond pairs plus spares for remainder of existing plate framed fleet.

Paul

Yes thanks I was aware of that, just seen one of the early models they do have the large letters on the plate bogies.

Edited October 9, 2018 by paul 27

[locoman462]

I know that it is still early days on the (over) weathering issue, but has anyone given any thought yet as to how to remove some of the excessive paint application applied to the hoppers? I have managed to expose some of the ICI lettering on the hopper sides using a very small sharp modellers chisel but failed completely to expose the details on any of the solebar data panels.

 

Can anyone suggest or know of a likely source of steam era number transfers as surely, despite the overall build up of grime on the wagons, the numbers would need to have been readable when despatching and keeping track of their whereabouts. Perhaps we will need to wait and see if Modelmaster Decals / Fox Transfers etc.will introduce ready made up packs in due course.

 

I have run my 12 hopper wagons on the club layout for the last two clubnights and am happy to say that they ran faultleslly.

[pharrc20]

Yes thanks I was aware of that, just seen one of the early models they do have the large letters on the plate bogies.

Yes large letters with plate frame bogies as built nos. 3284-3319 which became ICIM 19084-119

Cheers Paul

[Lochnagar]

I think they look almost spot on, in the period Im doing (late 80s early 90s) the real things were rarely cleaned at all..even the lettering. So an all over coat of brown/grey with limestone dust is what I would have done to them anyway. Ordered 17 initially, but I'm gong for a typical rake of 24. 

[Sandhole]

Firstly, I received an email notification on Sunday 7th October that my order of weathered hoppers had been packed and parcelled to my home address.  This notification was apparently only partially true as Royal Mail tracking information shows they were actually received by RM on Tuesday 9th October and accordingly they did arrive today by RM48Hour service.

 

My close inspection of the first of the hoppers ICI004BW earlier today confirmed that the model had been completely over weathered to such a degree that none of the applied decals were even remotely visible to the eye.  There is no obvious similarity with any of the three weathering masters originally proposed.  Even allowing for "possible limitations in the mass production process", I must conclude that the weathering has been over applied in an disappointing and amateurish manner and at some extra cost from the earlier pristine models, making a complete mockery of the publication of the original "weathering masters".

 

It has yet to be explained how this weathering blunder was allowed to happen and who took the final decision to offer these models for sale to the public without any prior warning of the dreadfully poor "weathering" they carry.

 

I would freely admit I was (like many others) captivated by Style 2 of the "weathering masters" but now feel somewhat beguiled and rather disappointed at what has happened regarding these weathered hoppers.

 

My next thoughts are what to do to improve them, other than a full on exterior repaint with freshly applied decals.

I'm going to have to dig out my shots of the beasts in the 80s and 90s to see what they looked like.

If I can get the mobile phone studio to work, I'll post my shots. Still haven't got a scanner!!

                                                                    Chris.

[Barry O]

we now have variety of clean/Hattons weathered/owners weathered hoppers.

 

The 16 hopper train has some of the very heavily weathered ones

 

the 12 vehicle rake (the other 4 were not available tonight) These are all either clean or weathered by teh owner.

 

 

The light/medium weathered Hatton's ones look OK, the heavily weathered ones are .. just brown ...

 

Some ideas have been kicked at the Clubrooms tonightaround to try and get a better finish on the heavily weathered ones...

 

Baz

[Fordbank]

Some close up photos of ICI006A (unweathered) and ICI005W (weathered) taken in natural light:-

 

 

 

Some more close ups are on the layout thread for Peak Forest Revived.

[66738]

A bit of work with T-cut and cotton bud makes the data panel legible. Fantastic model but I'm not happy about the amount of work going into getting these decent.

My most frustrating hopper to sort is wagon 19019. The I C I letters have been removed and you are supposed to see evidence of them being there but the weathering is so thick, you can only see it ever so faintly if you tilt the wagon at a certain angle. On the layout, it just can't be seen. Had to use a fabric pad dipped in T-cut in the model drill, to take the brown well back to see it. Then touched back in around the letters. Before I start dry brush weathering with rusty browns. Grrrrr!

Edited October 11, 2018 by 66738

[gridwatcher]

A bit of work with T-cut and cotton bud makes the data panel legible. Fantastic model but I'm not happy about the amount of work going into getting these decent.

My most frustrating hopper to sort is wagon 19019. The I C I letters have been removed and you are supposed to see evidence of them being there but the weathering is so thick, you can only see it ever so faintly if you tilt the wagon at a certain angle. On the layout, it just can't be seen. Had to use a fabric pad dipped in T-cut in the model drill, to take the brown well back to see it. Then touched back in around the letters. Before I start dry brush weathering with rusty browns. Grrrrr!

 

Any photos of what you have done please?

[gridwatcher]

Mine have arrived and I had always intended to give the weathered ones a 'bit more' treatment any way. Gratified that the datat panels can be brightened up a little and think they might also benefit from a little blow of something a little lighter reddish brown too just to give the 'bloom' that I remember over and above the unremitting dark brown colour of the wagons long in service. I have two clean ones, one which will be virtually out of works and one that'll be a half way house as again that's the way I remember the things. Excited and sadly unable to play ICI hoppers as off to MK to play 'Great Electric Trains' all weekend....