Hornby T9 broken motor housing retainer

[John M Upton]

I had the same issue, with the same model.

 

Peter's spares sell the motor retainer in Brass (I like how innovative Peter's spares have been in identifying frequently needed parts that aren't supplied by the OEM and so do it themselves - i've got a set of axles for putting new life in a Bachmann 04 currently on the shelf).

 

It's a like for like replacement (just cut off the brass excess).

To be sure (if the back retainer has gone) glue the motor in, but I found the Brass retainer is very strong and holds the motor / gear tower even without the back part.

 

Ive done 2 like this now, and no further problems (LSWR 120 was the other), nowt like a crumbling limited edition eh ?

 

Costs £9.60, takes about 2 hours, indeed I'm thinking to hunt a 3rd cheap (in Black or SR green) on ebay now I'm on a roll, looking on Peters Spares ebay history looks like they've cleared more than 100+ of these !!!

 

http://www.petersspares.com/peters-spares-ps61-replacement-Hornby-t9-motor-mount.ir

 

They just shifted one more!!  Needed some other bits anyway so shall see how this goes.

[OldSutt]

Yesterday I had some issues with my T9 No 314 Black Southern.

Originally DC, but converted to DCC and ran well  on DC and on the programming track when converted.

I took it down to the layout and the controller showed a short circuit as did the programming track.

Taking the body off, I discovered that the motor retainer front and back had disintegrated and

I was left with a mess just like one of the previous posted pictures.

 

I see that a solution to the problem is to use the brass replacement part from Peter's Spares, but a previous poster 

quotes 2 hours to fit. I wonder whether my filling skills are up to this?

[d00m]

I have some really old triang and early Hornby chassis none of which seem to have any problems like this. Are the problems purely related to Chineese/singapore manufacture? If not, I'm going to have to look at some of my older locos... maybe a lot of us need to also look at the weights that we put in coaching and goods stock etc... if too tight it may cause distortion ?

Yesterday I had some issues with my T9 No 314 Black Southern.

Originally DC, but converted to DCC and ran well  on DC and on the programming track when converted.

I took it down to the layout and the controller showed a short circuit as did the programming track.

Taking the body off, I discovered that the motor retainer front and back had disintegrated and

I was left with a mess just like one of the previous posted pictures.

 

I see that a solution to the problem is to use the brass replacement part from Peter's Spares, but a previous poster 

quotes 2 hours to fit. I wonder whether my filling skills are up to this?

[cobach47]

peter spares does a replacement in cast brass - be careful as a friend had his chassis break into many bits - the chassis was a tight fit into the body which caused stress when removing the chassis eventually Hornby replaced the complete loco - start pestering Hornby !

[Il Grifone]

I have some really old triang and early Hornby chassis none of which seem to have any problems like this. Are the problems purely related to Chineese/singapore manufacture? If not, I'm going to have to look at some of my older locos... maybe a lot of us need to also look at the weights that we put in coaching and goods stock etc... if too tight it may cause distortion ?

 

It appears to only affect modern products from the Orient, though some Lima models suffer from the weights expanding and cracking. Older models suffer in varying degrees. Anything pre-war is suspect and post-war Tri-ang and Hornby Dublo seem immune. Gaiety also (not that their models are much good!), but nearly all the others are suspect at least into the sixties (Graham Farish in particular). The shortages during the time of the Korean War affected the composition of the alloy. Damp and cold accelerate the process.

 

Adding weights to models can cause problems. I avoid using zinc alloy and the use of adhesive* - I usually make a 'cage' out of plastic or card to hold it in place or use screws taking care to insulate dissimilar metalsto avoid electrolytic corrosion

* I have had models warp in the past. 

[DCB]

Many years ago we used to get white metal kits to fit old Triang Chassis which we fitted with Romford wheels.  40 years on they are still working though probably relegated to the bottom of the scrap box. 

So why not get an old Triang chassis and Markits Romford wheels and stick the T9 body on it.  It will probably run for years and even pull a worthwhile train and stay on the track, 2 things our T9 can't get the hang of.   Thus far it shows no sign of motor problems, but as it won't pull the skin off a rice pudding it isn't exactly overstressed.

[Oldddudders]

Many years ago we used to get white metal kits to fit old Triang Chassis which we fitted with Romford wheels.  40 years on they are still working though probably relegated to the bottom of the scrap box. 

So why not get an old Triang chassis and Markits Romford wheels and stick the T9 body on it.  It will probably run for years and even pull a worthwhile train and stay on the track, 2 things our T9 can't get the hang of.   Thus far it shows no sign of motor problems, but as it won't pull the skin off a rice pudding it isn't exactly overstressed.

I have a few T9s, and find that if the bogie is properly fitted they will move up to a dozen Hornby Maunsells on level track. Might be worth checking.

[liathach]

I've just (regretted) buying at the weekend an R2829 new from a shop on the east coast.  The shop owner didn't want to take apart the box work to test the loco for me.  I trusted them.  It was clearly new from the factory with nothing moved.  It was screechingly noisy running.  The front motor retainer was fractured from the chassis as discussed previously.  It did work OK briefly.  Then the rear sections of the motor housing also fractured into small fragments.  I have since emailed Hornby directly about this.  I am pending a reply.  Of the many locos I've had over the years, this one has definitely been the biggest waste of money.  The cab body sections have come apart due to me trying repeatedly to fix the motor housing.  I have ended up trying to glue the motor in position, then utilized foam inserts to hold the motor in position against the body.  I doubt this will work long-term.  I tried a recent Hornby M7.  I had had multiple problems with that.  I got rid of that via Ebay. To describe my experience with the M7 and T9:  both looked great in the box; completely hopeless as running model locomotives.

[forest2807]

Wouldn't the best course of action have been to have returned the loco to the shop for a refund? If I understand consumer rights correctly your contract of purchase is with the retailer,not the manufacturer. I suspect that you have now nullified that contract through attempting a DIY fix.

[liathach]

I've just (regretted) buying at the weekend an R2829 new from a shop on the east coast.  The shop owner didn't want to take apart the box work to test the loco for me.  I trusted them.  It was clearly new from the factory with nothing moved.  It was screechingly noisy running.  The front motor retainer was fractured from the chassis as discussed previously.  It did work OK briefly.  Then the rear sections of the motor housing also fractured into small fragments.  I have since emailed Hornby directly about this.  I am pending a reply.  Of the many locos I've had over the years, this one has definitely been the biggest waste of money.  The cab body sections have come apart due to me trying repeatedly to fix the motor housing.  I have ended up trying to glue the motor in position, then utilized foam inserts to hold the motor in position against the body.  I doubt this will work long-term.  I tried a recent Hornby M7.  I had had multiple problems with that.  I got rid of that via Ebay. To describe my experience with the M7 and T9:  both looked great in the box; completely hopeless as running model locomotives.

 

Further to the above, Hornby had no interest regarding my experience! Be warned! 

 

I have got the Loco running acceptably in the end...providing the chassis doesn't split into pieces (as seen in earlier posts)

 

* Glued down the motor with araldyte instead of the fragile housing from Hornby.

 

* Filed away clearance for the bogie pin to prevent that from being load bearing

 

* Concentrated weight between the motor and the cab.  I experimented with weight just in front of the motor aswell (this made no difference).  The weight on the rear driver has made a big difference to preventing the loco slipping with loads.  I've gone from it taking 3 coaches maximum to 6 or 7 on my gradients.  BE CAREFUL with the cab backhead.  This easily pops out, but is very tricky to get back in to the correct position.

[Roger Sunderland]

Words fail me really. This is a major producer of 4mm scale railway items. Yet if you look on this website there are tales of woe about Mazak rot -avoidable, poor quality decoders -avoidable, TCS sound decoders that won't program properly - avoidable, hopper wagons where the wheels don't turn properly -avoidable, and this is only scratching the surface. When oh when will Hornby concentrate on the thing that matters most - quality, instead of continually hiking prices. If this were any other business sector they would already be long gone - but they are Hornby, we love them, or we love the name, because we all grew up with them.

 

Sorry, rant over and words obviously didn't fail me. I would love them to get back on track as much as the next person.

[forest2807]

Major producer, yes, but I don't agree with the assertion that we all love Hornby - (yes, I know it is a bit of a sentimental generalisation, but still). When I was a youngster, late 70's/early 80's, even to my inexperienced eyes Mainline products were way superior to the toys that Hornby produced. Moving on into the late 80's/early 90's, Bachmann appears on the scene and raises the bar massively, leaving Hornby in their wake. In my opinion Hornby have never caught up. Yes, there are some impressive models from Hornby, the Class 60 and many steam locos that I know nothing about spring to mind, but when I think of quality, precision, accuracy and reliability, I don't think of Hornby. To my mind Hornby are a toy producer which from time to time rolls out a very impressive model, but who's core market and raison d'être is and always will be mass market toys. No, I don't love them.

[daftbovine]

About 6 months ago I bought a second hand R2711 SR 729 at a swapmeet. It has the incorrect tender frame so it is one of the early ones. It runs well at present, is this likely to have problems in future?

 

I am wondering whether it would be worth buying the Peter's Spares part as a precaution. I live in Africa and importing the part would be a whole lot easier than sending the loco back although I doubt Hornby would repair such an old loco.

 

Has anyone else had problems with the first batch of these locos?

[Lenny]

Hi

 

This problem just doesn't extend to the T9, or the 2800 Class that Hornby produce, I have experienced this on the Granges and Duke of Gloucester TTS sound version,  and a number of other locos. The casting in some instances is not shearing off its disintegrating. I have sent Hornby a number of emails with pictures but they have not responded to any of them about this issue.  

 

My only advise is to stop buying Hornby products simple if you think about it,  if they won't support use as the consumer then why support them.  As you would have noticed this is a sour topic for me, even this week end, a mate and I thought we would carry out some simple programming and setting up of Hornby locos and 4 out off 8 (new) locos had issues two of them the casting disintegration. 

 

When you think of how much we as model railroaders put in to our hobby, it adds up especially when you have 40 plus locos in a collection and noting that some of us have been purchasing these products since the 60's. 

 

Cheers 

 

Richard

[phil-b259]

Hi

 

This problem just doesn't extend to the T9, or the 2800 Class that Hornby produce, I have experienced this on the Granges and Duke of Gloucester TTS sound version, and a number of other locos. The casting in some instances is not shearing off its disintegrating. I have sent Hornby a number of emails with pictures but they have not responded to any of them about this issue.

 

My only advise is to stop buying Hornby products simple if you think about it, if they won't support use as the consumer then why support them. As you would have noticed this is a sour topic for me, even this week end, a mate and I thought we would carry out some simple programming and setting up of Hornby locos and 4 out off 8 (new) locos had issues two of them the casting disintegration.

 

When you think of how much we as model railroaders put in to our hobby, it adds up especially when you have 40 plus locos in a collection and noting that some of us have been purchasing these products since the 60's.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Which is all very well if you don't want to model certain locations / eras

 

Given the small profits to be made out of the model railway sector, duplication is actively avoided between manufacturers - so if you do want a T9 (and do not have the time / skill level to scratchbuild / build a kit to the quality you desire) then it's impossible not to buy a Hornby product.

 

Thus, I'm afraid you are somewhat delusional if you think a 'boycott' of Hornby products will (I) work or (II) actually happen. Yes consumer boycotts do occasionally work - but in all such cases you will find that is because their are alternative products / manufacturers around to cater for consumers needs.

 

This is manifestly not the case in the model railway sector - except perhaps with the situation that occurred in the mid 90s when the ramping up of detail / decoration on Bachmann's new releases prompted Hornby to do the same.

 

At the end of the day, regardless of what modellers may think, as far as shareholders, city investors and accountants are concerned, model railway items are simply 'TOYS' and as such do not merit significant investment in quality control to ensure all models will last for decades - particularly as model railway enthusiasts are always moaning about high prices.

[Mallard60022]

Appreciate the advice on here. I've just discovered one that managed to run for just 3 miutes before disintegrating.

Did anyone fit the Peter's Spares brass part and show it on here? I couldn't spot that.

Phil

Edited July 30, 2017 by Mallard60022

[leavesontheline]

Appreciate the advice on here. I've just discovered one that managed to run for just 3 miutes before disintegrating.

Did anyone fit the Peter's Spares brass part and show it on here? I couldn't spot that.

Phil

 

I've just done the first of four of these using the Peterspares PS61 brass alloy replacement (plus the Hornby X9945 rear mount) and could post some pictures if you are still interested?

 

As already stated, its a nice little casting, requiring only minimal fettling to get a nice snug motor fit.

[Ben Alder]

I'm interested, running eight of these chassis, albeit not as T9's ...Fortunately, I only seem to be having sporadic problems with one of them but would appreciate a look at your remedy, please.

[cobach47]

get in touch with Hornby they have been replacing complete chassis and in my friends case a complete loco

[John Tomlinson]

Another proud owner with an R2830 suffering from failure of both front and rear mountings.

 

I do however have no complaint, having knowingly bought a failed item off ebay for a suitable price.

 

With the relevant bits in front of me, its clear that the main mount is a rubbish design, with such a small amount of material between the two sections, and that's before the mazak "rot" that can be seen in the crazing of the black paint on both mounts.

 

An order is imminent to Peters Spares for the parts, plus some other bits and pieces that might be useful.

 

If "leaves on the line" is reading this, can I add my voice to accept the offer of some pictures of his remedy, please.

 

John.

[John Tomlinson]

Right, well having completed the repair process, some notes for anyone interested.

 

The first thing is that the Peters Spares casting , whilst sturdy and well made, does need a fair bit of "fettling".

 

To start, there is a casting nib from the mould at the front end, easily removed with a hacksaw and dressed with a file.

 

The lower edge of the worm cover (the front part of the casting), should be parallel to the rear section on which the motor sits. Mine wasn't, and I bent it by hand to comply, albeit with trepidation as its the weak bit that failed on the original that needs to move.

 

The back end of the worm cover needs to be filed out so as to just rest on the top of the front motor bearing, I did this a bit at a time and kept testing. This will allow the motor to sit flat on the rear part of the mount.

 

The two lugs in the centre, bottom of the casting need filing out to just push comfortably into the notches in the chassis. These secure the new casting from below to the chassis.

 

The rear of the casting may need dressing to allow the rear mounting plate to sit vertically. This holds the motor by fitting over the rear motor mounting.

 

You should now be able to ease the motor into the casting, and attach them using the central lugs to the chassis.

 

The rear mounting plate can be screwed in, remembering that the wire to the lower motor terminal fits through a hole in the plate.

 

I found the wiring to be a nightmare, there's little space for all the wires and they come together on a small soldered board, before going off to the tender via "Satan's plug". The wires are very thin, presumably for space saving, and easily break at the soldered joints. I had detached the wires from the motor at the start, you can't do any of this otherwise, the tags on the motor are also very fragile and seem likely to break off at any time. Anyhow, eventually it all went back together, the chassis fitted into the body, and the loco runs very smoothly!

 

There is very little play up and down in the front bogie, and it can only be tweaked whilst the body and chassis are separate. The securing pin from the bogie into the chassis seems too long, and I cut a bit off, at the same time chopping the bogie spring in half and only refitting one part. There's now more up and down movement possible, so no question of the driving wheels not being in contact with the rail, but I may have overdone it as the bogie wheels don't rotate as freely as I'd like, probably due to pick-ups rubbing on all four wheels.

 

Maybe I'm just getting past it, but this is certainly not a walk in the park!

 

John.

Edited March 23, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[phil-b259]

 

There is very little play up and down in the front bogie, and it can only be tweaked whilst the body and chassis are separate. The securing pin from the bogie into the chassis seems too long, and I cut a bit off, at the same time chopping the bogie spring in half and only refitting one part. There's now more up and down movement possible, so no question of the driving wheels not being in contact with the rail, but I may have overdone it as the bogie wheels don't rotate as freely as I'd like, probably due to pick-ups rubbing on all four wheels.

 

Maybe I'm just getting past it, but this is certainly not a walk in the park!

 

John.

 

The alternative to this is to cut a hole in the body underneath the smokebox for the pin head to sit in. Its actually a lot less risky than it sounds - make the hole small and turn it into a rectangular slot by filing away the plastic.

 

Totally agree about the wires - I think I had to ditch the circuit board and solder them together - although as the T9 has a bogie pickup, if you are not a DCC person you could simply remove the electrical connection to the tender and wire the pickups directly to the motor.

[John Tomlinson]

The alternative to this is to cut a hole in the body underneath the smokebox for the pin head to sit in. Its actually a lot less risky than it sounds - make the hole small and turn it into a rectangular slot by filing away the plastic.

 

Totally agree about the wires - I think I had to ditch the circuit board and solder them together - although as the T9 has a bogie pickup, if you are not a DCC person you could simply remove the electrical connection to the tender and wire the pickups directly to the motor.

 

Thanks for this - one more broken joint on the board and I was ready to go your route and solder the lot together as I'm not on DCC.

 

One other thing to mention. I like to close couple loco and tender as far as possible - I have 27 inch minimum curves, and can normally get down to a scale 8 or 9 inches gap, which is reasonably prototypical. I tried using the short setting on the T9 which gives a gap a smidge over 2mm, say a scale 7 inches. The Hornby fallplate then locks the tender rigid, however if the fallplate is removed the loco happily trundles through my curves. I will make up a smaller fallplate that doesn't go right to the floor edges in due course. This is with the watercart tender, which may be a bit more forgiving in the geometry of sideplay than the six wheel versions.

 

John.

Edited March 24, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[TTTANK]

Hi just joined the dreaded T9 motor debacle, it’s been boxed for nearly three years and yep you guessed it decided to run it today and fell apart and didn’t run couldn’t believe what I found anyways after finding out this was a common problem ordered new one and hopefully onwards or put in the scrapyard lol 

 

fred 

 

[Ben Alder]

I have repaired a couple with Evostick to hold the motor in place - let it set for a day or two and it should be fine  - mine are still running OK.