Titan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Judging by the total lack of news stories concerning railway delays does this mean that our railways have actually coped with the best mother nature can throw at it or am I missing something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2015 Heard something on lunchtime news about speed restrictions. The way it was worded made it sound as though it was the trains that could cause the track to buckle rather than the heat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2015 https://twitter.com/networkrailPR/status/616186396747911168 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Judging by the total lack of news stories concerning railway delays does this mean that our railways have actually coped with the best mother nature can throw at it or am I missing something? There have been news reports, but as yet none of the usual (ill-informed) comments; I should imagine the French, and probably others, are looking at imposing them if they haven't already. Had my daily weather forecast for our vines today; 600m in the Beaujolais it's 'only' 30ºC, whereas Lyon and Villefranche are touching 40º. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Lots of cancellations into Victoria this evening... not sure way. I'm currently baking on a south west trains.... it's hot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 They mentioned speed restrictions out of Paddington on HTV West news last evening, while showing video footage of Kings Cross. I was quite impressed that at least they recognised a railway location, and did not mention "train station" once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2015 Doesn't surprise me that the tracks buckles in 30 degree weather - last year I was on the Trondheim - Bodo train in the middle of an unusual heatwave (30 degrees C north of the Arctic Circle!) and the 10 hour scheduled ride took 12 hours due to the speed restrictions in the affected areas. The previous week, the same train took 15 hours!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2015 There are major problems at Manchester Piccadilly tonight due to overhead wire problems. Don't know if its a heat problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Reality check to The UK......it was one relatively hot day, I don't think it went over 35 anywhere and we have possible chaos on the railways, health warnings, government advice etc etc etc. What has happened to us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM42 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Heat can be an issue on recent engineering sites where the rails have been replaced but not stressed. Stressing is physically stretching the rail to the length it would be (at 28C I think) to minimise the effects of extreme heat expansion (or shrinkage in cold weather) The problems with running over these areas at full line speed are that the additional stress of the train passing at speed can release any restrained expansion which could lead to a buckle. I think something like this happened in Cumbria 2 or 3 years back where the front of the train passed without incident but the rear of the train and its passangers had a more alarming ride. Such sites are identified and a critical rail temperature for each site is identified. This temprature is calculated from forecast air temperatures and if there is a risk that the critical temperature could be reached the site is physically monitored by a man with a thermometer. If the critical rail temperature is reached then speed restrictions are imposed until the temperature falls again. Similarly any engineering work that involves disturbing the track will need to be carefully considered as it will create a site of lower stability during rising temperatures. For instance when changing rails I believe that the rail temperature before removal, length being replaced and forecast air and corresponding rail temperatures all need to be considered as well as resourcing a person to stand out on site and monitoir if need be. The above is my rather simple undertsanding on this subject and I'm sure others could add more detail Another problem is keeping electronic signalling equipment cool. If the electronics overheat there is a potential for them to fail. There have been problems during this warm spell and certainly some rails have buckled, but not the widespread chaos (yet) that the media predicted Andy Edit for spelling missed first time, there are bound to be others Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I did an Anglia Plus (Rover for those of you old enough to remember such things) today. OLE difficulties at Colchester mid morning, on the spot inspection and application of TSR's at Stowmarket through the day and track circuit faults at Ipswich later in the afternoon. Various other affecting EMT and Cross Country at Ely, cause unknown to me, possibly just knock on effect of nationwide caution by NR. NR and Abbelio seemed to be coping well though to their credit. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevex52 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It would appear that the derailment of an empty tank train yesterday near Langworth in Lincolnshire may be due to track conditions. I have not seen this mentioned here. It happened yesterday afternoon. Keep cool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Reality check to The UK......it was one relatively hot day, Relatively hot? The hottest July day for 160 years? (and bearing in mind it is only July 1st that is some going.) Relatively hot would be a term more appropriate for a temperature slightly above average, (i.e. relative to average temperature for time of year) this is well beyond that. I don't think it went over 35 anywhere and we have possible chaos on the railways, health warnings, government advice etc etc etc. It was over 35 in several places, particularly Heathrow where at nearly 38 holiday makers were coming back to temperatures higher than their chosen resort. What has happened to us? We are actually living in the real world? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginelane Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Twitter feeds full of VTeast Coast cancellations, thunder storm damage etc. customer Relations going to be busy this evening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2015 I'll tell you whats happened to us, we're all petrified about being sued.... In the good ole days, we just accept it and got on with it, now we need to find someone to blame. Also there wasn't such things as 24hr news, that has to find something <anything> to fill its programs with.... Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The issue is about stressing the rails so they don't buckle at high temperatures, but aren't under excessive tension at low temperatures. It is stated that there is a tradeoff between one and the other. However there are plenty of places with railways that also have much wider temperature ranges than Britain does. What is done differently so they can cope (other than slab track, which most of them clearly don't have)? Closer/heavier sleepers, more ballast, heavier rails (which would probably make things worse), breather switches?. Or do they also impose restrictions but we just don't hear about them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The issue is about stressing the rails so they don't buckle at high temperatures, but aren't under excessive tension at low temperatures. It is stated that there is a tradeoff between one and the other. However there are plenty of places with railways that also have much wider temperature ranges than Britain does. What is done differently so they can cope (other than slab track, which most of them clearly don't have)? Closer/heavier sleepers, more ballast, heavier rails (which would probably make things worse), breather switches?. Or do they also impose restrictions but we just don't hear about them? Probably the latter; we get faxes from SNCF all the time. Some are the usual 'DBC (HBD) hors service', but at this time of year there are often messages about speed restrictions due to either 'dilation des voies' or 'dilation des catenaires' (expansion of track or expansion of catenary). The lines south of Bordeaux are particularily prone to the latter, due to the massive cross-section of the wire and the lack of tensioning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I believe the French go round twice a year and retension the track to cope with warmer/cooler temperatures. It's not often warm enough in the UK for rails to buckle, so the cost/benefit analysis of any mitigating measures is probably pretty low. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2015 Something i've learned from RMWeb is the practice of painting the sides of switch/crossing rails white to help lessen the effect of heat on the formations. Is this used on any plain line? - I'd guess probably not, as you'd have to know which lines would be likely to be affected, but just wondered. Is there a defining criteria or is it just a case of treating areas that are already known to have caused problems? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2015 Something i've learned from RMWeb is the practice of painting the sides of switch/crossing rails white to help lessen the effect of heat on the formations. Is this used on any plain line? - painting OO gauge track sides is tedious enough, imagine having to do the whole WCML with a tiny brush trying your best not to get any on the sleepers! there were signalling issues in crewe earlier, sat outside basford hall earlier for an age on a pendolino, ended up an hour late into crewe, also noted that plat 11 was shut, i think due to points problems though, whether it was heat related i dont know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2015 Reality check to The UK......it was one relatively hot day, Relatively hot? The hottest July day for 160 years? (and bearing in mind it is only July 1st that is some going.) Relatively hot would be a term more appropriate for a temperature slightly above average, (i.e. relative to average temperature for time of year) this is well beyond that. I don't think it went over 35 anywhere and we have possible chaos on the railways, health warnings, government advice etc etc etc. It was over 35 in several places, particularly Heathrow where at nearly 38 holiday makers were coming back to temperatures higher than their chosen resort. What has happened to us? We are actually living in the real world? And all of that is before you get to the actual rail temperatures as opposed to the sort of 'temperature at Heathrow Airport today was XXXX' type of reports we get on the news. Regrettably track buckles have been a fact of railway life in times of very high ambient temperatures for as long as I can remember - there was a derailment years ago (over 40 years ago) on the Up Goods not far east of Steventon due to a buckled rail. I know de-stressing methods have changed since then but track buckling problems aren't exactly novel. The problems of lost detection on pointwork also seem to have been round for a very long time although how much of that was heat related I really don't know but painting the rails white in pointwork has been going on in various places fora good 20 years in Britain and it seems to work in many places. But again we come back to rail temperatures and not what happens to be recorded 'on the roof of the Air Ministry' type of figure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I did have a laugh today whilst looking at train running disruption due to weather when Arriva Trains Wales posted that a Fishguard to Carmarthen train was delayed due to overhead line problems. I was amused because the service was (a) a DMU and over 100 miles from the nearest OHLE. Of course, I twigged what had really happened was a late running Manchester to Wales service, which had been delayed by the knock-on disruption caused by the OHLE failure in the Manchester area, must have been forming the service but it did rather suggest someone at ATW had been a bit too quick with the cut and paste command instead of posting "delayed due to late incoming service" or some such. Either that or Carmarthen has slipped into a parallel dimension where the GW main line electrification is complete and has been extended to Fishguard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Most CWR renewals or new formation is pre-stressed these days, but the formation can remain unstable until a secondary, settlement tamp is done. Rail buckling is inevitable in extreme heat, as is OLE distortion (drooping) as the pre-tensioning and balance weights can only cope within a set temperature range and then only if the wire is not already well worn and "stretched". Just wait for the thunderstorms coming your way over the next few days, courtesy of us in France right now (It is persisting down under the flashes and bangs). That should make today's problems look a little weedy. Eastern France would be described by the Daily RedTop as in "Chaos", where temperatures yesterday got up to 47 degs C. We, in the West, only had a measly 38. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 painting OO gauge track sides is tedious enough, imagine having to do the whole WCML with a tiny brush trying your best not to get any on the sleepers! Or the top of the rail, your boots/ hi-vi trousers or moving parts on S&C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Or do they also impose restrictions but we just don't hear about them? Restrictions are imposed elsewhere but people don't assume it is a failure of the railways. These 2 commuter operations have comments about heat related restrictions: http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/travelling/weather.aspx http://www.vre.org/feedback/frequently_asked_questions/faq_heat_orders.htm Here's a news report from 2 years ago about GO Transit cancelling a train due to heat: http://globalnews.ca/news/724267/extreme-heat-cancels-go-transit-train/ And for good measure a story from a couple of weeks ago about 2 trains being cancelled due to flooding: http://www.cp24.com/news/overnight-storm-causes-flooding-go-train-cancellations-1.2435658 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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