Driving standards

[Guest]

 

The amount of people that don’t realise an emergency vehicle with blues and twos is behind them. Or even better when the cars in front of them pull over because they have seen it and they overtake the cars, then suddenly realise and stop in the middle of the road. What’s that all about!?

 

Had that happen to me. I saw the police car through the windows of the car behind me and pulled over very gently so had had plenty of time to spot what was going on and he still pulled out to overtake me right as the police car was passing. I don't think he saw it even then.

[hayfield]

In my orthodox religious suburb, nobody - especially drivers of people carriers - raises a hand to say thanks because, being "God's Chosen", they expect that everyone gives way to them.

 

Your lucky they put their hands out, normally in the locality they just move off without looking, signalling etc .

 

Bit like those programs about bus drivers in India

[leopardml2341]

A thought just popped into my mind about red lights and emergency vehicles.

From Thames Valley Police:

 

 

If you cross the stop line at the junction whilst the lights are on red, you will commit the offence of contravening a red traffic light. However if there is an emergency vehicle behind you with its emergency warning signals on it might be possible for you to manoeuvre out of the way to allow it through. Ideally this should be to the side of the road without encroaching into the main area of the junction. It should only be done when it is safe to do so without putting yourself or other members of the public in danger and it should only be done slowly and carefully.

 

It is important to remember that in committing the offence (crossing the stop line) the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through, and this may be considered as mitigation.

 

 

 

I wonder if you would be given access to any relevant light/speed camera records?

Edited August 12, 2015 by leopardml2341

[Horsetan]

..... the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through, and this may be considered as mitigation.

 

 

 

I wonder if you would be given access to any relevant light/speed camera records?

 

A rearward-facing dashcam would help.

[Guest]

Today's tomfoolery.

Looked like an older bloke driving with kids in the back. Very luck there was a tractory thing slowing the oncoming traffic up.

 

BTW the little turning by the red brick building at the end is the same one in this post.

 

[Baby Deltic]

A thought just popped into my mind about red lights and emergency vehicles.

From Thames Valley Police:

If you cross the stop line at the junction whilst the lights are on red, you will commit the offence of contravening a red traffic light. However if there is an emergency vehicle behind you with its emergency warning signals on it might be possible for you to manoeuvre out of the way to allow it through. Ideally this should be to the side of the road without encroaching into the main area of the junction. It should only be done when it is safe to do so without putting yourself or other members of the public in danger and it should only be done slowly and carefully.

It is important to remember that in committing the offence (crossing the stop line) the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through, and this may be considered as mitigation.

I wonder if you would be given access to any relevant light/speed camera records?

My understanding is this: If an emergency vehicle comes up behind at a red light and you cannot maneuovre out of the way, the best thing to do is stay put. It isn't your fault and most emergency vehicle drivers will momentarily switch off blue lights and sirens to avoid pressuring motorists into moving into hazardous or illegal situations. If a uniformed Police Officer is present, he can direct you safely through a red light under his strict supervision. Edited August 12, 2015 by Baby Deltic

[leopardml2341]

A rearward-facing dashcam would help.

A forward facing one would do just as well

[Baby Deltic]

A forward facing one would do just as well

These days you need a Google Earth style camera on the roof scanning all directions!

[Black Sheep]

A thought just popped into my mind about red lights and emergency vehicles.

From Thames Valley Police:

 

 

If you cross the stop line at the junction whilst the lights are on red, you will commit the offence of contravening a red traffic light. However if there is an emergency vehicle behind you with its emergency warning signals on it might be possible for you to manoeuvre out of the way to allow it through. Ideally this should be to the side of the road without encroaching into the main area of the junction. It should only be done when it is safe to do so without putting yourself or other members of the public in danger and it should only be done slowly and carefully.

 

It is important to remember that in committing the offence (crossing the stop line) the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through, and this may be considered as mitigation.

 

 

 

I wonder if you would be given access to any relevant light/speed camera records?

A friend crossed the stop line but not into the junction, first police car passed, second stopped, booked him for it and carried on...

[leopardml2341]

A friend crossed the stop line but not into the junction, first police car passed, second stopped, booked him for it and carried on...

Mmmmm!

[Calnefoxile]

Having just spent the last hour or so reading through this whole thread, I'm going to add to it.

 

As a Field Service Engineer I have a Company Car (not a BMW or Audi ;-) ) and so spend an awful lot of my time trogging up and down the M4 & M5 and the Highways and Byways in and around South West. I do come across an awful lot of 'Inconsiderate' Drivers, I won't call them rubbish drivers or anything like that, because I've more than likely made mistakes in the past as well, I'm not a perfect driver by any means, oh and I hold my HGV Class 2 licence.

 

The ones that really annoy me are mainly the CLOD's or Centre Lane Only Drivers, I normally drive along using my Cruise Control set to 75mph and try and drive in the nearside lane as much as possible, only moving (after checking mirror then indicating) into the 1st Overtaking lane ( Middle lane) to 'OVERTAKE' a slower moving vehicle in nearside lane and then move back (after checking mirror then indicating) into the nearside lane. Occasionally, but happening more often these days, some CLOD will tank up the 1st overtaking lane, get to the rear of the queue of traffic in the 1st overtaking lane and slow down to their speed, but this then causes me to have to manoeuvre across 2 lanes of traffic to the 2nd OVERTAKING lane to pass them. Now whilst carrying out this manoeuvre (remember still in Cruise Control set to 75mph), the traffic in the 1st OVERTAKING lane, disappears and said CLOD then accelerates, just as I'm alongside them, leaving me looking a dick idiot still in the 2nd OVERTAKING lane at 75mph with a queue of traffic up my tailpipe trying to get past and back up to warp speed. So I move back over to the 1st OVERTAKING lane and then back to the nearside lane, only for the whole process to start again a few hundred yards up the motorway. Really gets on my t1ts..........

 

Invisibility cloak - My car is a Flip Chip Silver (I kid you not, that is the official colour) Vauxhall Insignia with front daylight running lights, and yet whenever I get into it I must put some sort of spell on it, because it just seems to disappear from every ones view.

 

Roundabouts - Do driving Instructors not tell their respective learners to slow down whenever you approach a roundabout, regardless of whether your respective exit is clear??? The amount of times I've had drivers approach roundabouts at almost full road speed and go through them, just because there isn't anyone coming onto the roundabout from their right, when I've got to the roundabout before them on their left and am 1/2 way through my left or right turn before they arrive at the roundabout, is unreal. And they look at me as if I'm at fault!!!!!!

 

Indicators - I think Modern car manufacturers have got a lot to do with Indicators, How many times have any of you not seen someone indicating in a modern car at night, because the indicator is 'inside' of the headlight in the light cluster?? I know I haven't on numerous occasions. Why can't indicators be like the old days, separate from the headlights?? In this instance I agree about older cars being better ;-)  Although there are those who just don't use them.

 

Mobile phones - My company has told us that we are not allowed to use Mobile Phones whilst driving, full stop, that includes Hands Free, Bluetooth or in any other manner. Doesn't stop us from doing it though as nearly all modern cars come with Bluetooth as standard these days, so they really shouldn't be any excuse. But why do we still see it?? and to my observations, mainly in expensive cars. If you can afford a top end Merc (for example) surely an extra £100 for Bluetooth isn't that much to ask!!!!

 

Right I'll turn rant mode off now, as I could go on and on but I've probably bored you all to death with my ramblings. :-)

 

Regards

 

Neal.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Calnefoxile

[Reorte]

From Thames Valley Police:

 

If you cross the stop line at the junction whilst the lights are on red, you will commit the offence of contravening a red traffic light. However if there is an emergency vehicle behind you with its emergency warning signals on it might be possible for you to manoeuvre out of the way to allow it through. Ideally this should be to the side of the road without encroaching into the main area of the junction. It should only be done when it is safe to do so without putting yourself or other members of the public in danger and it should only be done slowly and carefully.

 

It is important to remember that in committing the offence (crossing the stop line) the onus will be on you to provide evidence that you did so to allow an emergency vehicle through, and this may be considered as mitigation.

Had this decision to make on my driving test. Waiting at some lights and an abulance appeared from behind. Should move out of the way but I shouldn't cross the line, and I wasn't entirely sure what I should be doing. Talk about the last thing I wanted on my test, I was nervous enough anyway! In the end I managed to shuffle over a little but the ambulance went around the other side of a traffic island anyway. In any case I passed so I couldn't have got that bit too badly wrong, despite (IIRC) nudging the kerb very slightly trying to do the shuffle.

[Derekstuart]

Re: moving through a junction on red light to give way to an emergency vehicle.

 

This one comes up often in the CPC (operator, not driver).

 

Although this interpretation is disputer, the general consensus has been that (if it were to proceed to Court and you have evidence) is that you have committed an ABSOLUTE OFFENCE and, if the Magistrate accepts your evidence, you will get an PARTIAL/ABSOLUTE DISCHARGE.

Which in law means "yes you did commit the offence in law, but you did so for good reason." It means the same as "not guilty" in practice, but legally there is a subtle difference. but bear in mind that moving out the way of an emergency vehicle is not an absolute defence in law, so it comes down to the Magistrate.

 

DISCLAIMER: Again, that's the opinion of those who operate the courses I am involved in and others may have different interpretations and no offence is intended to anyone, ever, at all, no matter who, what, where, when, what they do for a living, the colour of their skin, gender, age, disability, political allegiance, religious beliefs etc. No animals were harmed in the making of this disclaimer. Anyone who is not specifically covered by the anti-offence disclaimer contained herein shall be considered as implied non-offended group.

[Baby Deltic]

Indeed. Blue lights and sirens are a request to give way when it is safe and legal to do so.

[Baby Deltic]

Having just spent the last hour or so reading through this whole thread, I'm going to add to it.

 

As a Field Service Engineer I have a Company Car (not a BMW or Audi ;-) ) and so spend an awful lot of my time trogging up and down the M4 & M5 and the Highways and Byways in and around South West. I do come across an awful lot of 'Inconsiderate' Drivers, I won't call them rubbish drivers or anything like that, because I've more than likely made mistakes in the past as well, I'm not a perfect driver by any means, oh and I hold my HGV Class 2 licence.

 

The ones that really annoy me are mainly the CLOD's or Centre Lane Only Drivers, I normally drive along using my Cruise Control set to 75mph and try and drive in the nearside lane as much as possible, only moving (after checking mirror then indicating) into the 1st Overtaking lane ( Middle lane) to 'OVERTAKE' a slower moving vehicle in nearside lane and then move back (after checking mirror then indicating) into the nearside lane. Occasionally, but happening more often these days, some CLOD will tank up the 1st overtaking lane, get to the rear of the queue of traffic in the 1st overtaking lane and slow down to their speed, but this then causes me to have to manoeuvre across 2 lanes of traffic to the 2nd OVERTAKING lane to pass them. Now whilst carrying out this manoeuvre (remember still in Cruise Control set to 75mph), the traffic in the 1st OVERTAKING lane, disappears and said CLOD then accelerates, just as I'm alongside them, leaving me looking a dick idiot still in the 2nd OVERTAKING lane at 75mph with a queue of traffic up my tailpipe trying to get past and back up to warp speed. So I move back over to the 1st OVERTAKING lane and then back to the nearside lane, only for the whole process to start again a few hundred yards up the motorway. Really gets on my t1ts..........

 

Invisibility cloak - My car is a Flip Chip Silver (I kid you not, that is the official colour) Vauxhall Insignia with front daylight running lights, and yet whenever I get into it I must put some sort of spell on it, because it just seems to disappear from every ones view.

 

Roundabouts - Do driving Instructors not tell their respective learners to slow down whenever you approach a roundabout, regardless of whether your respective exit is clear??? The amount of times I've had drivers approach roundabouts at almost full road speed and go through them, just because there isn't anyone coming onto the roundabout from their right, when I've got to the roundabout before them on their left and am 1/2 way through my left or right turn before they arrive at the roundabout, is unreal. And they look at me as if I'm at fault!!!!!!

 

Indicators - I think Modern car manufacturers have got a lot to do with Indicators, How many times have any of you not seen someone indicating in a modern car at night, because the indicator is 'inside' of the headlight in the light cluster?? I know I haven't on numerous occasions. Why can't indicators be like the old days, separate from the headlights?? In this instance I agree about older cars being better ;-)  Although there are those who just don't use them.

 

Mobile phones - My company has told us that we are not allowed to use Mobile Phones whilst driving, full stop, that includes Hands Free, Bluetooth or in any other manner. Doesn't stop us from doing it though as nearly all modern cars come with Bluetooth as standard these days, so they really shouldn't be any excuse. But why do we still see it?? and to my observations, mainly in expensive cars. If you can afford a top end Merc (for example) surely an extra £100 for Bluetooth isn't that much to ask!!!!

 

Right I'll turn rant mode off now, as I could go on and on but I've probably bored you all to death with my ramblings. :-)

 

Regards

 

Neal.

 

If I was already on a roundabout and someone shot across from the right and skidded into me I would blame them because in skidding they lost total control of their vehicle. Right of way or 'priority' as it should be defined should be given, not taken. When one driver attempts to take priority before the other driver has had a chance to anticipate their intentions and give priority, collisions happen.

[stewartingram]

Re: moving through a junction on red light to give way to an emergency vehicle.

 

This one comes up often in the CPC (operator, not driver).

 

Although this interpretation is disputer, the general consensus has been that (if it were to proceed to Court and you have evidence) is that you have committed an ABSOLUTE OFFENCE and, if the Magistrate accepts your evidence, you will get an PARTIAL/ABSOLUTE DISCHARGE.

Which in law means "yes you did commit the offence in law, but you did so for good reason." It means the same as "not guilty" in practice, but legally there is a subtle difference. but bear in mind that moving out the way of an emergency vehicle is not an absolute defence in law, so it comes down to the Magistrate.

 

DISCLAIMER: Again, that's the opinion of those who operate the courses I am involved in and others may have different interpretations and no offence is intended to anyone, ever, at all, no matter who, what, where, when, what they do for a living, the colour of their skin, gender, age, disability, political allegiance, religious beliefs etc. No animals were harmed in the making of this disclaimer. Anyone who is not specifically covered by the anti-offence disclaimer contained herein shall be considered as implied non-offended group.

On a number of occasions in the past I have been 1st car at the line on Red. When "two's & blues" have come up behind I have always gone over, sometimes the whole junction, to give them clearance, and always had a Thanks from them. I first started this when working at Police HQ (as a civvy), and when it came up in conversation with the Traffic guys in the canteen they told me I did right.

Now I work in London, as a contractor on the Underground, whenever the situation happens I still do it. My workmates are in terror of doing it, but I will argue the consequences later, as my Traffic cop said, "getting to an incident and saving a life is more important".

In a similar vein, imagine the scenario: single straight carriageway, I'm in a broken line of cars heading north. A few clumps of cars coming south, Ambulance overtaking neatly as required. Approaching us, ambulance will now have a clear run SB, way past me in the NB queue - so why do the NB cars stop dead suddenly?

2nd scenario - similar spot and conditions, though fewer cars going SB. Ambulance approaching in NB direction, our speed is 55-60 so he is making progress to back of queue, but not too rapidly. So again, why did the front of the NB queue stop, without even pulling over to the left? I just pulled out and overtook the queue, ambulance caught me up 1/2 mile later and overtook me as I maintained my speed but moved to the left. No obstruction to him, and I gave him a clear run without impeding his progress.

 

Stewart

[chris p bacon]

I find that the majority of road users will move out of the way safely when they hear and see "Blues and Two's" 

 

It's when they realise they're on a Nissan Cabstar towing a Kubota digger that the fun starts. . 

 

 

 

 

Can't see the problem myself, 

[Derekstuart]

Yes, Stewart.

 

When I was on the M4 Sunday (off to Rail Wells) there was a Police car, I moved into lane 1 to let him past and the car up ahead (lane 2) wasn't looking in his mirror and went into lane 3- a common enough error as discussed by many people on this thread. But when he did eventually see the Police car, on came the brake lights and he swerved into lane 2.

 

If someone is momentarily distracted and doesn't see a blue version of 4* beachy head lighthouse on a car roof, then that's bad enough- but to slam on the anchors when there's a high speed car behind you and then swerve violently to the left (destabilising a car at high speed is always silly) and then there's the car in lane 2 that has to react.

 

The simple thing is that people see the blue lights and panic- especially if they are speeding themselves- and that's dangerous.

 

Or there's the case of seeing a Police car behind you and then stopping to let it past.... right opposite a parked car or traffic island etc.

[raymw]

waiting to turn right, line of traffic coming towards you, not moving fast. Prepared to cross when last car has passed, plenty of room to get across, but then he slows/stops to give way to you.

[Baby Deltic]

On a number of occasions in the past I have been 1st car at the line on Red. When "two's & blues" have come up behind I have always gone over, sometimes the whole junction, to give them clearance, and always had a Thanks from them. I first started this when working at Police HQ (as a civvy), and when it came up in conversation with the Traffic guys in the canteen they told me I did right.

Now I work in London, as a contractor on the Underground, whenever the situation happens I still do it. My workmates are in terror of doing it, but I will argue the consequences later, as my Traffic cop said, "getting to an incident and saving a life is more important".

In a similar vein, imagine the scenario: single straight carriageway, I'm in a broken line of cars heading north. A few clumps of cars coming south, Ambulance overtaking neatly as required. Approaching us, ambulance will now have a clear run SB, way past me in the NB queue - so why do the NB cars stop dead suddenly?

2nd scenario - similar spot and conditions, though fewer cars going SB. Ambulance approaching in NB direction, our speed is 55-60 so he is making progress to back of queue, but not too rapidly. So again, why did the front of the NB queue stop, without even pulling over to the left? I just pulled out and overtook the queue, ambulance caught me up 1/2 mile later and overtook me as I maintained my speed but moved to the left. No obstruction to him, and I gave him a clear run without impeding his progress.

 

Stewart

I agree that saving lives is important, but that doesn't do much for the 'good Samaritan' left licking their wounds with three penalty point and a £100 fine plus court costs having been convicted of passing a red traffic signal by an over zealous magistrate.

[robday12]

 

 

 

 

I normally drive along using my Cruise Control set to 75mph

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why?

[Guest]

Blue flashy light instructions.

 

[robday12]

Blue flashy light instructions.

 

Reminds me of the kind of public awareness ads we used to get on TV. Perhaps they should be reintroduced.

[Nimbus]

Surely its not the make of car that's causing the problem, its the aggressive driving of whatever it is. Some people are plain p**cks when driving.

 

It's too expensive for car manufacturers to do things by chance these days; every nuance of the design will have been refined by focus groups, and their advertising agency knows too well just how to press the right buttons to motivate a purchase. They know their target market, and their target market knows them, in other words.

 

The Nim.

[MJI]

A friend crossed the stop line but not into the junction, first police car passed, second stopped, booked him for it and carried on...

 

That moron has now created a person who will never give way to another emergency services vehicle again, perhaps it mght be the morons house on fire?