Driving standards

[jonny777]

The Avon and Somerset police now have an unmarked lorry which drives around the area with officers filming into other vehicles, just to see what drivers are doing while they drive.

 

Unbelievably, they were overtaken by a car at speed in the outside lane where the driver was rolling a cigarette - neither hand on the driving wheel.

 

[PhilJ W]

N0

 

I have seen a Sherpa ambulance being driven hard.

 

Back end squatted down and off into the distance with that lovely V8 burble

The Essex police had a LWB Sherpa V8 many years ago used by the underwater search team. The officers who used it prefered it to the Transit it replaced, except for the handling.

[Il Grifone]

I think that was a pilot vehicle positioned to prevent any unwise overtakes.

I would agree, but still too close.

[phil-b259]

Does anybody else know people who have this holier-than-thou attitude to those who drive in the middle lane and make an exaggerated display of driving in the inside lane, moving over then cutting back across at speeds well in excess of the speed limit? I knew one guy at work who I refused to share a car with as he was quite frankly dangerous in my opinion, he ignored speed limits and most driving rules but would climb on a real high horse on the subject of middle lane drivers, he was genuinely oblivious to the fact that he was breaking more laws, driving with less regard to other drivers and far more liable to cause an accident than the middle lane drivers that gave him the red mist.

 

While not condoning bad driving, I believe undertaking is, contrary to popular belief, not in itself a motoring offence - the key being the use of the official language used, i.e. "should not "undertake as opposed to "must not" undertake in the highway code. The term "must" indicates something specifically mentioned in law where as the term "should" indicates good practices but that there is no specific guidance on the matter in law.

 

Of course if a motorist performing a "should not" action is involved in an incident then such behaviour could be used as evidence for a charge of dangerous driving.

Edited June 6, 2016 by phil-b259

[Kickstart]

Absolute offences are usually set by the hard of thinking.

 

If you got done for 1mph over it would be by an absolute berk.

Woman I used to work with got done for 32mph in a 30 limit.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[Jol Wilkinson]

Funny thing is that I think I find 40 a generally much more pleasant speed to travel at than going faster. On, say, a B road where that's windy enough for that to be a sensible general speed (with the odd faster or slower section) I tend to find that I'm usually actually enjoying the journey. Doesn't stop me being irritated and wanting to go faster than that speed on roads suitable for faster though if something's stopping me.

Ah 40mph, the preferred speed of the CSM or Constant Speed Motorist. 40 in a 60, 50, 40 or even 30 limit. CSM should actually stand for something rather less complimentary, especially when they drive at their chosen speed in a 30 limit.

[Kickstart]

While not condoning bad driving, I believe undertaking is, contrary to popular belief, not in itself a motoring offence - the key being the use of the official language used, i.e. "should not "undertake as opposed to "must not" undertake in the highway code. The term "must" indicates something specifically mentioned in law where as the term "should" indicates good practices but that there is no specific guidance on the matter in law.

Been told that it was a specific offence until the 1970s but the act was repealed.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[peanuts]

While not condoning bad driving, I believe undertaking is, contrary to popular belief, not in itself a motoring offence - the key being the use of the official language used, i.e. "should not "undertake as opposed to "must not" undertake in the highway code. The term "must" indicates something specifically mentioned in law where as the term "should" indicates good practices but that there is no specific guidance on the matter in law.

 

Of course if a motorist performing a "should not" action is involved in an incident then such behaviour could be used as evidence for a charge of dangerous driving.

have been told that if you move in undertake then out  again  you can be prosecuted for dangerous driving .continue along the inside lane and undertake its fine this was from a traffic plod during a vosa stop in my waggon 

[newbryford]

have been told that if you move in undertake then out  again  you can be prosecuted for dangerous driving .continue along the inside lane and undertake its fine this was from a traffic plod during a vosa stop in my waggon 

 

So if you undertake using the verge, you have to stay on the verge?

 

Cheers,

Mick

[jjb1970]

A lot of this is down to the status of the Highway Code, much of which is recommendatory in nature mixed with statutory requirements. The Code is legally persuasive but in itself ignoring the Highway Code is not a criminal offence. Where you do break a law then the offence as I understand it will be a breach of the applicable statute law (which may be referenced in the Code), not of breaching the Code.

 

On speed, no matter how irritating some people are there is never an excuse for the sort of aggressive and dangerous behaviour which some drivers resort too and which are bigger breaches of good driving manners and the Highway Code than the sort of behaviour which causes people to get the red mist.

[jonny777]

have been told that if you move in undertake then out  again  you can be prosecuted for dangerous driving .continue along the inside lane and undertake its fine this was from a traffic plod during a vosa stop in my waggon 

 

My problem with not undertaking, is that the alternative i.e. moving to the outside lane overtaking and then moving back to the inside lane, is fraught with danger if vehicles in the fast lane are doing 80+mph.

Edited June 6, 2016 by jonny777

[PhilJ W]

have been told that if you move in undertake then out  again  you can be prosecuted for dangerous driving .continue along the inside lane and undertake its fine this was from a traffic plod during a vosa stop in my waggon 

I wonder if as in the situation I was in last bank holiday was legal. I was on a four lane motorway using the inside lane and moved out to overtake a lorry and then back in again. Perfectly legal except that lanes 3 and 4 were chocker with cars going slower than the lorry I had overtaken. Incidently lanes one and two were almost empty.

[alastairq]

My problem with not undertaking, is that the alternative i.e. moving to the outside lane overtaking and then moving back to the inside lane, is fraught with danger if vehicles in the fast lane are doing 80+mph.

 

 

The'alternative' mentioned is not an action I, personally, have any real problems doing. Done correctly, with appropriate observation, indication and anticipation, there should not be any real increase in risk.

[alastairq]

Re-the Highway Code?

 

Whilst much of it is advice which has no legislation behind it, the ignoring of that advice can be used in evidence supporting other charges.

 

This is plainly stated within the HC.

[peanuts]

My problem with not undertaking, is that the alternative i.e. moving to the outside lane overtaking and then moving back to the inside lane, is fraught with danger if vehicles in the fast lane are doing 80+mph.

try driving a lorry resticted to 54 and some numb nut is cruising along in lane two at 50  i can not go into lane three by law  so what choices do i have undertake or drop down to 50 effectivley making it a potentaily dangerous  one lane road with speed differentials of well over 30mph ? think the lesser of two evil;s in this case an under take it is 

[railsquid]

The Essex police had a LWB Sherpa V8 many years ago used by the underwater search team. The officers who used it prefered it to the Transit it replaced, except for the handling.

 

I guess it had a longer snorkel?

[45156]

try driving a lorry resticted to 54 and some numb nut is cruising along in lane two at 50  i can not go into lane three by law  so what choices do i have undertake or drop down to 50 effectivley making it a potentaily dangerous  one lane road with speed differentials of well over 30mph ? think the lesser of two evil;s in this case an under take it is 

Good point there.  I had a similar experience at the weekend on the M6 when a whole line of cars pulled out to lane 2 to overtake and artic doing its 54 mph, but with a cockwomble leading the procession at 59 mph, so that the entire cavalcade was passing the artic quite slowly.  Then another artic started to undertake the whole queue (OK so far according to the highway code) though he was not, apparently, subject to the usual limited speed as he was doing about 60.  He then spoiled the whole thing by cutting in to overtake the leading truck.  Not a great piece of driving, but in his defence, the whole situation was generated by the leading car, who would not speed up, then would not go back into lane 1, and continued to progress up lane 2. 

[jonny777]

I tend to travel on motorways at about 65mph (usually not in the middle/outside lanes I hasten to add) because my wife (who doesn't drive) has serious travel sickness problems and that is the speed where she feels the least ill. (Having never had any of these problems myself, I cannot begin to understand how depressing this condition must be).

 

However, with my closing speed on lorries in front being only 10mph I find that I have a relatively long time to keep an eye on what is going on in the other lanes and see a potential gap which will allow me to get past the lorry and cause as few vehicles as possible to get stuck behind me for 10 seconds or so. If I have to ease off the accelerator a fraction in order to wait for the gap to arrive, then it is no problem as I am in no hurry.

 

It is mainly sudden acceleration/deceleration manoeuvres and twisty roads which lead to SWMBO's car sickness problems.

 

So yes, I am one of those drivers who does deliberately pootle along at 65mph; but not to annoy other drivers - just to make my driving experiences bearable.

[johnarcher]

Would anyone really describe driving only 5mph below the speed limit as pootling?

[jonny777]

I just have.

 

pootle

ˈpuːt(ə)l/

verb

Britishinformal

gerund or present participle: pootling

move or travel in a leisurely manner.

 

There is no reference to the official speed limit

Edited June 7, 2016 by jonny777

[hayfield]

My problem with not undertaking, is that the alternative i.e. moving to the outside lane overtaking and then moving back to the inside lane, is fraught with danger if vehicles in the fast lane are doing 80+mph.

 

 

I think on the whole you should over take, not under take as the person you are undertaking may chose to change lane without looking on the inside.There are times where you can undertake where your lane is going faster. I thing its weaving in and out where undertaking is dangerous and police may (should) take action. Still I avoid undertaking when ever possiable

[hayfield]

Would anyone really describe driving only 5mph below the speed limit as pootling?

 

The speed limit is the maximum, you should adjust your speed to the conditions on the road up to the limit. Having said that you should keep up a reasonable speed especially on a motorway

[Baby Deltic]

I tend to travel on motorways at about 65mph (usually not in the middle/outside lanes I hasten to add) because my wife (who doesn't drive) has serious travel sickness problems and that is the speed where she feels the least ill. (Having never had any of these problems myself, I cannot begin to understand how depressing this condition must be).

 

However, with my closing speed on lorries in front being only 10mph I find that I have a relatively long time to keep an eye on what is going on in the other lanes and see a potential gap which will allow me to get past the lorry and cause as few vehicles as possible to get stuck behind me for 10 seconds or so. If I have to ease off the accelerator a fraction in order to wait for the gap to arrive, then it is no problem as I am in no hurry.

 

It is mainly sudden acceleration/deceleration manoeuvres and twisty roads which lead to SWMBO's car sickness problems.

 

So yes, I am one of those drivers who does deliberately pootle along at 65mph; but not to annoy other drivers - just to make my driving experiences bearable.

I have no problem whatsoever with people pulling out at 65mph as long as they allow me plenty of room to anticipate them by indicating early enough for me to safely slow to their speed.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Lane discipline has been an issue in the UK since the introduction of three lane motorways. There seems to be some connection between buying a Road Fund License (if it is still called that) and owning the centre or centre lanes of motorways. Some people must assume that the left hand lane is still for the lower classes.

 

It is increasingly a problem with increased traffic volume and the ever increasing stupidity of drivers in today's selfish Me Me Me society. To quote John Cleese "shoot the lot of them", except the human rights advocates won't let us and there are insufficient traffic police to do anything about it.

[peanuts]

I tend to travel on motorways at about 65mph (usually not in the middle/outside lanes I hasten to add) because my wife (who doesn't drive) has serious travel sickness problems and that is the speed where she feels the least ill. (Having never had any of these problems myself, I cannot begin to understand how depressing this condition must be).

 

However, with my closing speed on lorries in front being only 10mph I find that I have a relatively long time to keep an eye on what is going on in the other lanes and see a potential gap which will allow me to get past the lorry and cause as few vehicles as possible to get stuck behind me for 10 seconds or so. If I have to ease off the accelerator a fraction in order to wait for the gap to arrive, then it is no problem as I am in no hurry.

 

It is mainly sudden acceleration/deceleration manoeuvres and twisty roads which lead to SWMBO's car sickness problems.

 

So yes, I am one of those drivers who does deliberately pootle along at 65mph; but not to annoy other drivers - just to make my driving experiences bearable.

perfectly good sensible driving clearly aware of whats around you through use of your mirrors plus planning ahead by observing and anticipating what  going on ahead of you if only more drivers could do this instead of intently focusing on the rear of the vehicle infront at 70-90 mph with inevitable results in the event of an emergency