Driving standards

[Pacific231G]

I'd never seen the actual calculation, it's not my field but the thing about lorries causing disproportionate damage doesn't surprise me. I can't think of any remaining sections, following the ongoing upgrading of the A1, but the old A1 had long sections where the depressions in the construction base caused by lorry traffic were clearly visible.

I've delved a bit further and the fourth power rule of thumb came originally from a major study carried out in about 1960 by the The American. Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials and revised in the 1990s. The actual equations they derived for Vehicle Load Equivalency Factors are complex but the fourth power of axle weight provides a reasonable approximation. There is an American summary from the Umiversity of Wisconson of its implications here http://epdfiles.engr.wisc.edu/pdf_web_files/tic/bulletins/Bltn_002_Vehicle_Load.pdf

 

Some very recently published research by Dawid Rys, Jozef Judycki and and Piotr Jaskula at the Gdansk University of Technology, suggest that this rule of thumb may be underestimating the impact of higher loads, especially on more lightly built local roads, and that the relatively small proportion of overloaded lorries (6-25%) have a disproportionate effect on the life expectancy of roads, . A summary of this research and the full text of an article on it is available here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352146516302782

 

The Gdansk research did include PSVs (buses and coaches) and they are significant though their Load Effect Factor was found to be about 65%-70% of that for HGVs on roads with the same maximum axle weights.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Pacific231G

[rockershovel]

They were probably far more unlikely to point out that buses normally have the same number of axles as cars but axle weights closer to that of HGVs.All the bestKaty

That may well be true, but an articulated HGV will have 5 or even 6 axles, so one HGV = 2 busses, more or less. Now count the number of buses you see on the road, compared to HGV. So, while the statement may well be true as far as it goes, buses are really not significant in road damage terms, compared to HGV

[JDW]

On the subject of road damage, I can think of plenty of places with such "tram lines" in the road, caused by both general traffic and just by "us" (buses),  In quite a few cases, there are bus laybys where there are short ruts where the front (especially) and rear wheels stand in almost identical places, the front ones being made worse by the slight turning of the front wheels as the driver starts to move away.  It can get quite bad, in one place there was quite a "hump" built up against the kerbstone, as a result of the tarmac being pushed that way as the bus turned away from the kerb (which is one reason why you shouldn't turn your steering wheel whilst stationary - this was the result of just a few degrees of turn!).  I suspect that constant heat from the hot brakes and warm tyres as the bus is standing makes the effect worse and more concentrated than on a flowing motorway.  But anyway, that's got nothing to do with driving standards.  So, to get back on topic:

 

Cyclists!  I've seen, and heard, a few different vehicles recently with audible and visual warning devices to alert cyclists that they are turning left - those of you in and around London will probably be more familiar with such things than up here in Aberdeen, and I pity you.  First off, aren't vehicles already fitted with such warnings?  Flashing orange things?  Do they need extra flashing orange things to warn specific road user groups?  The new National Express double decker coaches, for example, have a small illuminated cyclist symbol on the nearside rear corner.  Is it just me that thinks that if the cyclist hasn't seen or understood the flashing orange things attached to the big dangerous thing that say "I'm turning left", he probably won't see/understand the extra flashing orange thing either?  As for the ones that say "beware, this vehicle is turning left", how long before city centres become a cacophony of electronic voices, the noise of the diesel engines being replaced on electric buses with constant overlapping electronic announcements from queues of buses on Oxford Street...?  

[peanuts]

Cyclists!  I've seen, and heard, a few different vehicles recently with audible and visual warning devices to alert cyclists that they are turning left - those of you in and around London will probably be more familiar with such things than up here in Aberdeen, and I pity you.  First off, aren't vehicles already fitted with such warnings?  Flashing orange things?  Do they need extra flashing orange things to warn specific road user groups?  The new National Express double decker coaches, for example, have a small illuminated cyclist symbol on the nearside rear corner.  Is it just me that thinks that if the cyclist hasn't seen or understood the flashing orange things attached to the big dangerous thing that say "I'm turning left", he probably won't see/understand the extra flashing orange thing either?  As for the ones that say "beware, this vehicle is turning left", how long before city centres become a cacophony of electronic voices, the noise of the diesel engines being replaced on electric buses with constant overlapping electronic announcements from queues of buses on Oxford Street...?  

 

sits back pulls up a deckchair opens a few beers and gets comfy this thread is about to go nuclear 

[Coryton]

Cyclists!  I've seen, and heard, a few different vehicles recently with audible and visual warning devices to alert cyclists that they are turning left - those of you in and around London will probably be more familiar with such things than up here in Aberdeen, and I pity you.  First off, aren't vehicles already fitted with such warnings?  Flashing orange things?  Do they need extra flashing orange things to warn specific road user groups?  The new National Express double decker coaches, for example, have a small illuminated cyclist symbol on the nearside rear corner.  Is it just me that thinks that if the cyclist hasn't seen or understood the flashing orange things attached to the big dangerous thing that say "I'm turning left", he probably won't see/understand the extra flashing orange thing either?  As for the ones that say "beware, this vehicle is turning left", how long before city centres become a cacophony of electronic voices, the noise of the diesel engines being replaced on electric buses with constant overlapping electronic announcements from queues of buses on Oxford Street...?  

 

Probably about as useful as the annoying system in some stations that detects when somebody is about to use the stairs and plays an announcement telling you to use the handrail. And - being cynical - in both cases perhaps aimed more at avoiding blame than actually increasing safety.

[Kickstart]

That may well be true, but an articulated HGV will have 5 or even 6 axles, so one HGV = 2 busses, more or less. Now count the number of buses you see on the road, compared to HGV. So, while the statement may well be true as far as it goes, buses are really not significant in road damage terms, compared to HGV

Maybe less significant compared to lorries but certainly still significant, especially when used on smaller roads and around town. After all many of the lorries are running around empty hence far lighter than when laden.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[MJI]

I reported a delivery cyclist last night as they had no lights.

 

Found out it is a food delivery service!

 

What i swrong with a pizza car?

 

I would rather have hot takeawy food

[Titan]

I reported a delivery cyclist last night as they had no lights.

 

Found out it is a food delivery service!

 

What i swrong with a pizza car?

 

I would rather have hot takeawy food

 

How long have you got?

 

Not only that, but the bicycle is almost certainly quicker. I cycle to work, I obey all the rules, and it is by far the quickest way of getting to work - even a motorbike or scooter can't get close. It must be said that a lot of this is down to dedicated cycle paths that motor vehicles can't use, which cut the distance travelled in comparison quite significantly, not only that but they are free of traffic jams too!

Edited November 13, 2016 by Titan

[Guest]

I reported a delivery cyclist last night as they had no lights.

 

Found out it is a food delivery service!

If it was a Deliveroo rider he probably can't afford lights.

[MJI]

How long have you got?

 

Not only that, but the bicycle is almost certainly quicker. I cycle to work, I obey all the rules, and it is by far the quickest way of getting to work - even a motorbike or scooter can't get close. It must be said that a lot of this is down to dedicated cycle paths that motor vehicles can't use, which cut the distance travelled in comparison quite significantly, not only that but they are free of traffic jams too!

 

At night?

 

And they were ona long hill, definately quicker in a motor vehicle

[peanuts]

well this will please a few on here  ? http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/highways-england-confirms-m11-overtaking-ban 

[hayfield]

I recently had an unfortunate experience at a car park, my local store has a car park with two entrances with an exit between them (all next to each other). Now to start off with this is a bad design.

 

I was travelling along the road, I decided not to take the first entrance (as it only gives access to about a quarter of the car park) but the second, duly started signalling right to warn the driver behind me why I was slowing down, when the chap waiting to turnout of the car park darts out in front of me. Easy to miss him as I was slowing down anyway to turn in, just beeped my horn and carried on

 

The idiot came back into the car park, parked in front of my car and started ranting on that I should have turned right into the first entrance as I was signialing, a quick discussion where I suggested that he both read the highway code and took some refresher lessons. We both went on our way.

 

The chap must have been in his 60's and in my opinion should have waited for me to turn and ensure no other car/bike was following me closely in before exiting, But it was nothing other that what happens quite often when drivers jump in front of you, but to have the cheek to moan about my driving.

 

He should read rule 170 and 171, both not assuming that the driver indicating will actually turn and waiting for the road to clear. Its not only younger or those who learnt to drive in a different country are bad drivers, but also us oldies

 

Whilst in car parks It amazes me those who are disabled enough not to be able to walk unaided/without assistance can still drive unmodified cars. I am not talking about disabled folk who drive converted cars. But I used to regularly see a person who walked with 2 crutches and struggled to shuffle along, but drove an automatic car. How could they in an emergency move quick enough even if each foot was on a pedal.

[mezzoman253]

well this will please a few on here  ? http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/highways-england-confirms-m11-overtaking-ban 

Link now here http://www.commercialmotor.com/compliance original goes to a error 404 page.

 

There is one of these on the A14 a various points and at certain times. It seems to work well.

 

Rob

[Reorte]

Probably about as useful as the annoying system in some stations that detects when somebody is about to use the stairs and plays an announcement telling you to use the handrail. And - being cynical - in both cases perhaps aimed more at avoiding blame than actually increasing safety.

I've not encountered that before. Probably just as well, such things aren't good for my blood pressure.

[PhilJ W]

 

Whilst in car parks It amazes me those who are disabled enough not to be able to walk unaided/without assistance can still drive unmodified cars. I am not talking about disabled folk who drive converted cars. But I used to regularly see a person who walked with 2 crutches and struggled to shuffle along, but drove an automatic car. How could they in an emergency move quick enough even if each foot was on a pedal.

I need to walk with the aid of a stick but my car is unmodified and has a manual gearbox. In an emergency it takes only fractions of a second to transfer my foot from accelerator to brake. When doing so almost all the movement is in the ankle, in fact my heel rests on the floor and its only a matter of swinging my foot from one pedal to the other. Modern cars have power assisted brakes that take the effort out of braking and its only quite elderly vehicles that require any effort.

[hayfield]

I need to walk with the aid of a stick but my car is unmodified and has a manual gearbox. In an emergency it takes only fractions of a second to transfer my foot from accelerator to brake. When doing so almost all the movement is in the ankle, in fact my heel rests on the floor and its only a matter of swinging my foot from one pedal to the other. Modern cars have power assisted brakes that take the effort out of braking and its only quite elderly vehicles that require any effort.

 

You totally missed the point I was making, not those with a slight condition or those who have their cars modified, but it was those who are severely disabled. The person I am thinking of cannot walk with the assistance of a stick, cannot really get round with the two crutches.

 

If you look at disabled parking spaces, quite a few of the cars parked there can be classes as abandoned not parked, especially as disabled parking spaces have wider spacing and a blue additional access space, there is no reason for not parking correctly. I have even seen one park over the the blue access space !!

 

Also those (mainly women) who have child on board signs or child seats with no children on board or teenagers , using the spaces reserved for those parents/carers who have children of pram/pushchair age and with them !!  These folk have no respect or care for those who really need a widened parking space.

Edited November 21, 2016 by hayfield

[Horsetan]

.....Also those (mainly women) who have child on board signs or child seats with no children on board or teenagers , using the spaces reserved for those parents/carers who have children of pram/pushchair age and with them !!  These folk have no respect or care for those who really need a widened parking space.

 

That's just one of the many symptoms of the selfish society we have nowadays. Arguably this has taken about 30 years or so to develop; will it take another 30 years to reduce / eliminate?

[Titan]

You totally missed the point I was making, not those with a slight condition or those who have their cars modified, but it was those who are severely disabled. The person I am thinking of cannot walk with the assistance of a stick, cannot really get round with the two crutches.

 

You only need one operational leg to drive an automatic as well as any fully able person, since you should never use more than one leg to drive an automatic anyway. So what do you expect them to do without crutches, hop perhaps?

[hayfield]

You only need one operational leg to drive an automatic as well as any fully able person, since you should never use more than one leg to drive an automatic anyway. So what do you expect them to do without crutches, hop perhaps?

When it takes a person a few moments to move one leg that's the problem, if they could hop they would be able to use one leg to cover both peddles, I am talking about someone with very limited movement

[Jol Wilkinson]

That's just one of the many symptoms of the selfish society we have nowadays. Arguably this has taken about 30 years or so to develop; will it take another 30 years to reduce / eliminate?

Ivan

 

what gives you any idea that people will be less selfish - ever? The more crowded the planet becomes, the more Me!, Me!, Me! people will become, prompted by a marketing/advertising industry that tells you how important you are so that you buy whatever stuff they are peddling.

[hayfield]

Ivan

 

what gives you any idea that people will be less selfish - ever? The more crowded the planet becomes, the more Me!, Me!, Me! people will become, prompted by a marketing/advertising industry that tells you how important you are so that you buy whatever stuff they are peddling.

 

 

Talking about being selfish, listened to the radio the other night who apparently was so upset about the American elections (she was not an American) that she was having therapy !!  The shrink was being quite serious talking about the patient suffering a great loss, well I nearly peed myself laughing. I know the subject is serious but needing therapy, might have been more understanding if the person was American.  

[Horsetan]

Talking about being selfish, listened to the radio the other night who apparently was so upset about the American elections (she was not an American) that she was having therapy !!  The shrink was being quite serious talking about the patient suffering a great loss, well I nearly peed myself laughing. I know the subject is serious but needing therapy, might have been more understanding if the person was American.  

 

Don't know if you managed to follow Rich Hall's US Presidential Election Breakdown series on R4, but that was quite amusing, particularly the last show on the day the result became clear. A lot of the participants in that one sounded as though therapy was needed!

[Kickstart]

You only need one operational leg to drive an automatic as well as any fully able person, since you should never use more than one leg to drive an automatic anyway. So what do you expect them to do without crutches, hop perhaps?

Entirely possible to drive an auto with both feet. I tend to when parking, and my better half did most of the time when their right leg was very dodgy, resulting in difficulty moving there foot sideways reliably

 

All the best

 

Katy

[SM42]

You only need one operational leg to drive an automatic as well as any fully able person, since you should never use more than one leg to drive an automatic anyway. So what do you expect them to do without crutches, hop perhaps?

 

Using the left leg for the brake especially when negotiating parking areas is a good practice as it tends to negate the "why has the car shot off out of control into the shop when I put my foot on the brake pedal and when I pressed the pedal harder to stop it went faster? The car had a mind of its own " syndrome.

 

Mind you on the open road if you've forgotten it's an auto and you are used to a manual it can be a bit of a shock when you find the clutch pedal (that's the big one in the middle.)

 

At least I knew the seatbelt and ABS worked.

 

Andy

Edited November 21, 2016 by SM42

[APOLLO]

Interesting article here re driverless cars / road rage (sorry if already posted)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37706666

 

Brit15