Driving standards

[peanuts]

one wonders whilst attending any film premiers in london is vin diesel subject to the extra "T" charge he was built before 2006 ?

[Jenny Emily]

The "T charge" is all the more nonsense after you read this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-41640746

I once was told that building a car produces as much pollution as the car on average yearly mileages would produce in emissions over 50 years, so scrapping a car is the worst possible thing for the environment. I have noticed of late that a LOT of newer cars are leaving black and blue exhaust trails out on the roads; far more than I ever remember vehicles leaving. Is it down to bad designs that game the testing system at the expense of real world emissions or just too many people these days treat their car as maintenance free?

Edited October 24, 2017 by Jenny Emily

[Jol Wilkinson]

I once was told that building a car produces as much pollution as the car on average yearly mileages would produce in emissions over 50 years, so scrapping a car is the worst possible thing for the environment. I have noticed of late that a LOT of newer cars are leaving black and blue exhaust trails out on the roads; far more than I ever remember vehicles leaving. Is it down to bad designs that game the testing system at the expense of real world emissions or just too many people these days treat their car as maintenance free?

Probably mainly down to poor maintenance, i.e. not getting things fixed when needed. Sometimes people ignore the warning messages on the dash when the car is still running apparently okay. Likewise, many drivers don't understand they are driving a complex piece of machinery and don't look out for the obvious signs that something is wrong. "Black smoke, what black smoke?". "The red light said stop, but I waited until I got home."

 

Of course, as we live in an increasingly "it's someone else's fault"  society, people don't see the need to look after their property, preferring to blame the manufacturer/retailer when it goes wrong. 

 

The pollution story is a new one on me, although I had read that it applied to the Toyota Prius Hybrid, owing to the pollution involved in mining and transporting the materials for the batteries as well as manufacturing them.

 

It seems that people and the media now see the motor industry as rather an easy target since  VAG (and others) created the USA emission scandal.  I wonder how polluting is the total manufacturing process of all the other consumer goods people like to enjoy, especially those made in India and China?

Edited October 24, 2017 by Jol Wilkinson

[Horsetan]

one wonders whilst attending any film premiers in london is vin diesel subject to the extra "T" charge he was built before 2006 ?

 

OT, but judging by some of the films he's been in, maybe he should change his name to Vin Ordinaire.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Horsetan

[Guest]

The pollution story is a new one on me, although I had read that it applied to the Toyota Prius Hybrid, owing to the pollution involved in mining and transporting the materials for the batteries as well as manufacturing them.

 

Another fun factoid is that it takes about 6kWh of electricity to refine a gallon of petrol. That would propel the Prius about 25 miles using its motor.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Another fun factoid is that it takes about 6kWh of electricity to refine a gallon of petrol. That would propel the Prius about 25 miles using its motor.

If its the same for diesel, that would take my car 55 miles.

[PhilJ W]

Apparently lithium which is used in hybrid vehicle batteries is abundant in the now closed Cornish tin mines. They are now considering reopening these mines to extract the lithium. Problem is it is lethally poisonous, even more so than lead and mercury and will have to be mined by remote control.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Another fun factoid is that it takes about 6kWh of electricity to refine a gallon of petrol. That would propel the Prius about 25 miles using its motor.

You would only get that 25 mile range from that charge from a battery alone by going slow (to minimise wind resistance) and on net level: fine if you can afford to spend at least a couple of hours doing the 25 mile journey and live on the fens or a similar landscape

[Guest]

You would only get that 25 mile range from that charge from a battery alone by going slow (to minimise wind resistance) and on net level: fine if you can afford to spend at least a couple of hours doing the 25 mile journey and live on the fens or a similar landscape

I average 4.2 miles per kWh in the Leaf on 60mph A-roads....

[njee20]

The cost of servicing is quite small compared to the cost of fuel. The price differences are such that it is often cheaper to rent a car on top of the fuel compared to rail, and you have in that case not only covered servicing/tax/insurance etc. but administration costs and profit on top of that too. 

I don't disagree, but those marginal costs add up. My last service/MOT was £500, nothing really out of the ordinary, 10,000 mile intervals, admittedly alternating major/minor, so say they average £400 a year, that's still 4p per mile, which on the hypothetical Norfolk - Edinburgh journey would be another £28. Then I reckon on about 10-12,000 miles out of a pair of front tyres, there's another £300, or 3p a mile. What about depreciation too? Hiring a car is a good option, but then one could do that at the other end, dealing with TheQ's issue of not having transport.

 

Ever waited for a Southern service (sic)? Ever suffered the effects of a strike? Ever endured sardine can / armpit BO conditions when a train is ram-packed?

 

 

Not everyone can plan that long in advance. What if something crops up at short notice? The fares won't be quite so miserly then.

I commute on Southern, they can certainly be pretty dire, last year was horrendous for sure, but by and large they're fine, and you think trying to drive into the City of London would be quicker, more pleasant and cheaper (or even any one of those) every day? Yeah... good luck with that!

 

I don't think anyone is saying train always makes more sense, but I just can't quite comprehend having not used the train once for 40 years "because driving is cheaper". But then I live in the south east, and clearly have better connections than TheQ, so who knows. Presumably you've not visited London since 1976?

Edited October 24, 2017 by njee20

[Horsetan]

..... Presumably you've not visited London since 1976?

I've no need to visit. I've lived in London since birth.

[TheQ]

I have been to London (inside where the M25 is today), on the following occasions.

School trips to London museums twice  1969, 1970. by coach

Through London to catch the overnight sleeper for Glasgow once.. 1971 and on to the Outer Hebridies!!!

 RAF courses at Uxbridge, or West Drayton  total 3. 1978 - 1988 (By car)

The firemans Strike  1977-8 by RAF coach to Windsor, then on to Erith, into central London by Green Goddess many times.

 Going on coach trips to the London boat show organised by my sailing club three times 1988-1996

 Coach trips by the works Social club to London theatres twice. 1988-1996

Now  I go that way once every two years with a friend, we alternate whose car we take to go to the RYA National Dinghy exhibition at Alexandra palace. 2002--->

 

So counting the Green Goddess trips as once, A total about 17 times to greater London, inner London about 7 times... Just once by rail

 

If the national Dinghy exhibtion moved somewhere else I would be quite happy never to go to London.

Edited October 25, 2017 by TheQ

[njee20]

Curiouser and curiouser! Each to their own I guess.

[njee20]

I've no need to visit. I've lived in London since birth.

Wasn’t aimed at you, but that presumably means you have used public transport at some point in the last 40 years, which proves my point.

 

It’s no wonder the roads are so full of angry people, the love affair with the car is so ingrained.

[TheQ]

Just realised I forgot a few, Since Heathrow is inside the M25 (just) 1996-2001, 3 times a year to Heathrow though sometimes Gatwick but only once in 1996,

I've live in many places throughout England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

 

Generally, only if you live in a big town or city is Public transport viable.

Edited October 25, 2017 by TheQ

[Vanders]

Generally, only if you live in a big town or city is Public transport viable.

Even then "viable" can depend a lot on what you're willing to put up with. When I lived in Bristol until recently, I'd have described public transport (buses, and mostly nothing but buses) as "barely functional".

[Titan]

Hiring a car is a good option, but then one could do that at the other end, dealing with TheQ's issue of not having transport.

 

Can anyone else spot the major flaw in this argument?

 

If you are going to hire a car at the other end, then you have to add that cost to the train ticket to get a fair total. Then the only cost difference is that of fuel v cost of train ticket, in which case the car will win on almost all occasions, especially if you hire something frugal.

 

Then of course the hire company will have to meet you at the station at the precise time you arrive, otherwise you will still have to add taxi fares to the train ticket costs until such time that the hire car can be picked up!

 

In my case I was going to London for the evening, so hiring a car to drive in London just to save a couple of £10 taxi fares would have been silly. 

[Happy Hippo]

Doesn't seem to be much in the way of driving standards being covered at present........

[Jenny Emily]

Probably mainly down to poor maintenance, i.e. not getting things fixed when needed. Sometimes people ignore the warning messages on the dash when the car is still running apparently okay. Likewise, many drivers don't understand they are driving a complex piece of machinery and don't look out for the obvious signs that something is wrong. "Black smoke, what black smoke?". "The red light said stop, but I waited until I got home."

 

Of course, as we live in an increasingly "it's someone else's fault"  society, people don't see the need to look after their property, preferring to blame the manufacturer/retailer when it goes wrong. 

 

The pollution story is a new one on me, although I had read that it applied to the Toyota Prius Hybrid, owing to the pollution involved in mining and transporting the materials for the batteries as well as manufacturing them.

 

Now I think about it, the pollution statistic might even have been out of a copy of National Geographic sometime in the 1970s, so no doubt massage that 50 year figure down a little to account for more efficient engines getting better mpg if that is so. I sent all my NGs for recycling over a decade ago so cannot check. Either that or it came from my A level physics teacher, so may not be entirely accurate, though everything else he taught me about the workings of stuff materials and things seems to have panned out okay. 

 

I still remember with mild amusement the lady at Stafford services southbound asking the cashier about the oil pressure warning light for her spanky BMW 7 series on the forecourt. Apparently the light had come on when she left the house and she had decided to ask what the Aladdin's lamp meant when she stopped for more cigarettes. The consensus was that as her BMW had sounded like a bag of spanners in a cement mixer when she pulled up, the trip down the M6 from Knutsford had probably been a bit much for it with no oil. 

 

Perhaps it was the warning light that the magic car genie that keeps the mystery thing under the bonnet working had escaped? 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Jenny Emily

[njee20]

Doesn't seem to be much in the way of driving standards being covered at present........

Apologies, amid 4500 posts it's hardly surprising, and it's (perhaps tenuously) related to driving at least!

 

Getting back OT then, good to see other police forces trying to clamp down on close passes on cyclists, here, although a shame they're not being fined.

[TheQ]

It would be difficult to fine someone for something that has no legal definition. unless they have an accident, they could only be charged with careless driving and then it gets into a legal argument over why is 1.5 metres a safe distance and not 1.49metres.

Meantime Norfolk tried this for 1 day in Norwich a couple of weeks ago. about 20 were stopped. The best one they stopped, had no tax, insurance, mot, nor drivimg licence and was high on canabis....

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/motorists-who-drive-too-close-to-cyclists-to-be-targeted-by-police-in-norwich-1-5218744

[njee20]

Yep, like many offences, there’s vast amounts of subjectivity and judgement involved. I’d still happily see people fined, as with tailgating etc, although accept the limitations.

 

We’re far too lenient when it comes to traffic offences IMO.

[Wolseley]

Passing too close to a cyclist is an offence here.  Drivers must allow at least one metre in distance when passing a cyclist or, if the speed limit is more than 60 kilometres per hour, 1.5 metres.  If it is safe to pass a cyclist, drivers are allowed to move across a centre dividing line, broken or unbroken, into the other lane.  They can also drive on a flat dividing strip and a painted island.

 

The fine for motorists caught not allowing sufficient space when passing a cyclist is $319 and two demerit points, with a maximum court fine of $2,200.

[TheQ]

In the UK

"You are permitted to straddle or cross a continuous solid white line to enter a side road or property, to manoeuvre round a stationary vehicle blocking your side of the road, to overtake a cyclists, horse or a road works vehicle moving at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less. Crossing double white lines where the line closest to you is solid is illegal outside of the circumstances described above."

 

Trouble is many cyclists are doing 15mph, which to overtake in a car is illegal, if you go over the line, but the roads are not wide enough for the 1.5 meters recommended space. Therefore if you obay the law you get huge holdups...

 

Crossing the white line outside of the above is a 3point penalty +£60 fine (12 points= loss of licence)

 

oh the police here were wanting a 1.5metre gap in a 30mph zone...

Edited October 25, 2017 by TheQ

[duncan]

It would be difficult to fine someone for something that has no legal definition. unless they have an accident, they could only be charged with careless driving and then it gets into a legal argument over why is 1.5 metres a safe distance and not 1.49metres.

Meantime Norfolk tried this for 1 day in Norwich a couple of weeks ago. about 20 were stopped. The best one they stopped, had no tax, insurance, mot, nor drivimg licence and was high on canabis....

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/motorists-who-drive-too-close-to-cyclists-to-be-targeted-by-police-in-norwich-1-5218744

 

Was that the cyclist on cannabis ?  Another couple of the lycra brigade out this morning, cars had dipped headlights on, cyclists in matt black, no lights.  Quite happy to swerve out in front of cars on the duel carriageway to pass parked vehicles, wonder if they would do that in a car ?