Driving standards

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

 

Also don't Americans use handbrakes? In most of those cases the rear wheels were turning freely...

Generally Americans appear NOT to use handbrakes. Apparently they use the terminology 'emergency brakes', so that's what most drivers think they are - only to be used in an emergency, presumably only when the normal brakes fail, which even on a not fully maintained car, should be never!

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

 

Two questions

 

1. Why do we allow the general sale of 'Non Road Legal' vehicles

 

Because an owner is fully entitled to use them on private land, assuming the land owner has given permission. Of course, there is nothing to enforce the use of helmets or any other safety equipment. Although some jurisdictions, do make roll over cages mandatary on certain new vehicles.

 

Remember, it's the misuse of such vehicles that present a problem, not the ownership.

[johnofwessex]

4 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Because an owner is fully entitled to use them on private land, assuming the land owner has given permission. Of course, there is nothing to enforce the use of helmets or any other safety equipment. Although some jurisdictions, do make roll over cages mandatary on certain new vehicles.

 

Remember, it's the misuse of such vehicles that present a problem, not the ownership.

 

Bit like Jet Ski's, nothing wrong with the product just the people who buy them.

 

Another suggestion might be to say that they have to be licensed and carry a number plate even if they are off road only so they can be identified

[kevinlms]

2 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

 

Bit like Jet Ski's, nothing wrong with the product just the people who buy them.

 

Another suggestion might be to say that they have to be licensed and carry a number plate even if they are off road only so they can be identified

You mean like bicycles?

 

Sorry, forget I mentioned that!  😇

[Reorte]

18 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

Another suggestion might be to say that they have to be licensed and carry a number plate even if they are off road only so they can be identified

 

I don't like that idea, if something's only (supposed) to be used on private land then that's entirely the landowner's business (things like noise issues notwithstanding), licencing anything that's only used in private very much feels wrong. Besides, if they're only supposed to be used on private land then people using them elsewhere are already breaking the rules, so it seems very unlikely that they'll go along with a different one saying they have to licence them.

 

I'm very much of the opinion that any form of registration of licencing is only acceptable under extreme last-ditch no alternative circumstances (in an ideal world cars wouldn't need it, although I accept that in practice it's not really feasible not to).

Actually come to think of it do cars that don't carry a number plate and are never used on public roads (e.g. non road-legal racing cars) have to have any form of registration? AFAIK, but could be wrong, SORN only applies to roadgoing vehicles.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Reorte

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

It's the same with the electric scooters - they're getting to be a real menace around here. Both are illegal, but the police don't have enough resources to go after them...

 

Scooters owned by 1 of 2 hire companies are legal on the pathways & 30mph roads in MK & the owners are responsible for their maintenance. There are some terms for use (parking afterwards in particular) which get ignored.

I often see people riding other e-scooters. These are obviously their own & therefore illegal.

I know of some people who have electrically assisted bikes. These allow them to ride further then they otherwise could & the assistance often only works uphill. These are great when ridden carefully, allowing their users to be far more active than otherwise possible & also to join riders of standard bikes for a morning out.

Where do you draw the line between appropriate & inappropriate for design or use?

 

[Nick C]

51 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I know of some people who have electrically assisted bikes. These allow them to ride further then they otherwise could & the assistance often only works uphill. These are great when ridden carefully, allowing their users to be far more active than otherwise possible & also to join riders of standard bikes for a morning out.

Electrically assisted bikes are perfectly legal, it's electrically powered ones that aren't (i.e. you have to actually be pedalling, plus there's limits on power and top speed). If you can make it go without pedalling, it's a motorbike - and so has to meet C&U regulations, registration, insurance etc.

[big jim]

53 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Electrically assisted bikes are perfectly legal, it's electrically powered ones that aren't (i.e. you have to actually be pedalling, plus there's limits on power and top speed). If you can make it go without pedalling, it's a motorbike - and so has to meet C&U regulations, registration, insurance etc.

what about electric assist bikes with a thumb throttle?

 

i.e still maxes out at 16mph and has a motor that activated by pedalling but once moving you can just use the throttle to keep your momentum

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

what about electric assist bikes with a thumb throttle?

 

i.e still maxes out at 16mph and has a motor that activated by pedalling but once moving you can just use the throttle to keep your momentum

Good question - it doesn't mention those here: https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules

[big jim]

The reason I ask is my mum and stepdads old electric bikes had a thumb throttle fitted, I think it was sold as a ‘walking assist’ accessory for it you were pushing it along and needed a bit of help on hills etc, most electric bikes have the same function but they cut out at 1.5mph but hers will take you to the full 15.5mph!

 

as it’s a bit of a grey area when Dominic inherited the bike for work I’d tell him to start pedalling if he saw a police car so as to not draw attention to himself! 

 

 

[johnlambert]

On the subject of changing gears.

 

Yesterday I had the pleasure of driving three old cars.  The oldest was designed in the 1930s, launched in 1945 and the particular example I drove dated from 1952.  In the middle was a car launched in 1957 and built in 1960.  The youngest of the trio dated from 1968 as a development of a basic design that was introduced in 1953.  By design, none of them had synchromesh on first gear and not much second gear synchro left either.  Changing up was a matter of taking your time and feeling when the next gear was ready to engage, going down was a pleasant opportunity to polish the double declutching skills that modern cars allow us to neglect.

 

Would I want a car with a "crash" gearbox as my daily transport?  I'm not sure, but I love the idea of a car with the benefits of modern brakes, tyres, engine management, heating and ventilation; yet furnished with such old-fashioned features as a close-ratio, un-synchronised gearbox, fly-off handbrake, maybe even a convertible top that allows for the fitting of a centre-zipped tonneu cover and fold-flat windscreen.

 

Does the ability to use an un-synchronised manual gearbox make me a better driver?  I very much doubt it.  For me, good road driving is about observation and consideration as much as any particular technique of car control.

 

As for automatic transmissions, I feel they are done a disservice by the name as it sets an expectation that they cannot match.  They cannot (as recently stated) anticipate, only react.  Where some fail is that they don't necessarily make it easy to inhibit changes when they are unwanted.  When I am driving a car with automatic transmission, I am happy to use whatever means are available to prevent it changing gear when I do not want it to.  But my experience of current automatics is that switching between automatic and manual control is not as intuitive as it should be.  The last automatic I drove was a Triumph Stag, with an ancient three-speed auto (probably the evergreen Borg Warner Type 35), which was perfectly adequate although I didn't fancy using the stiff lever to try and hold lower gears.  Earlier in the year I drove a Jaguar XJ (X300 type) with the 3.2-litre straight six and four-speed automatic.  With a sensitive ear and right foot (and prior experience of the type), I never once encountered an automatic shift that I didn't want, despite leaving the thing in drive on a test route that took in a reasonable variety of roads.  But I do remember some of my early experience of two-pedal cars, where things like kick-down could be somewhat disconcerting if you weren't used to it.

[Kris]

We have a local roundabout that has recently been moved, however some individuals are finding things hard. Almost all caused by poor driving, poor lane keeping and even poorer sign reading. 

 

https://i2-prod.cornwalllive.com/incoming/article8685476.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_JB_drivingchaos2_17082023.jpg

[Tankerman]

On 16/08/2023 at 18:31, 30801 said:

Wanted to look for e-bike stuff on YouTube and came across this:

Whole channel dedeicated to riding like a knob. You have to wonder where the enforcement is.

 

 

 

Quote "You have to wonder where the enforcement is." Looking at a video posted on the web by numerous people, they are too busy illegally arresting autistic teenagers.

[Coldgunner]

Who paid for them? Surely the parents must've had to buy them?

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 minutes ago, Coldgunner said:

Who paid for them? Surely the parents must've had to buy them?

 

Pay???

 

Mike.

[Grovenor]

4 hours ago, Kris said:

We have a local roundabout that has recently been moved, however some individuals are finding things hard. Almost all caused by poor driving, poor lane keeping and even poorer sign reading. 

 

https://i2-prod.cornwalllive.com/incoming/article8685476.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_JB_drivingchaos2_17082023.jpg

Turning right onto a roundabout is a rather extreme form of poor lane keeping. 🤨

[kevinlms]

Tonight's good news story!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-18/holden-ute-crushed-by-sa-police-after-extreme-speeding-incident/102746344

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Tonight's good news story!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-18/holden-ute-crushed-by-sa-police-after-extreme-speeding-incident/102746344

The operator must get 11 out of 10 for job satisfaction.

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The operator must get 11 out of 10 for job satisfaction.

I was going to say it seems a bit wasteful, but the report says they sell roadworthy vehicles they take off such people, so no qualms left about crushing it.

[kevinlms]

6 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I was going to say it seems a bit wasteful, but the report says they sell roadworthy vehicles they take off such people, so no qualms left about crushing it.

253kmh and unroadworthy - wonderful isn't it!

[jcredfer]

On 17/08/2023 at 11:38, Nick C said:

.....

 

Also don't Americans use handbrakes? In most of those cases the rear wheels were turning freely...

 

My B-in-Law, who lives in Canada, recently informed me that many of the people on that continent don't use the Parking Brake, as many of the population have to deal with long winter weather.  An applied Parking brake can freeze up, overnight, leaving it well nigh impossible to defrost, in any reasonable time.  Leaving the Gear Stick in Park allows them to get in and drive to work / wherever, in the morning.  It seems that the habit simply persists into Summertime.  Also, the Parking brake is quite frequently operated by a foot pedal and not always conveniently placed, which makes it less easy to use.  The laziness, quoted by Kevinlms, was also cited.

 

I recently came back from a couple of weeks in Canada, driving a Toyota 4Runner, which had a pedal for the Parking brake, right up, just under the lower edge of the facia.  It required some considerable lifting of the knee to get the foot on it and a long, heavy, push to the floor, to lock it [8 - 10"?].  The release push was even more heavy and I wouldn't have liked to have to try anything like that for a hill start, fortunately their Auto Transmission, prevents roll-back anyway,  Previous visits have been with much smaller cars, where a normal handbrake was often the case and those with foot operated Parking brakes, were much more convenient to use, than the Toyota one.

 

[johnofwessex]

4 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Tonight's good news story!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-18/holden-ute-crushed-by-sa-police-after-extreme-speeding-incident/102746344

 

Be even better if the driver was still locked in it.................

[big jim]

[kevinlms]

Not all follow the stereotypes. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2023-08-20/livestock-rural-transporters-association-young-driver-award/102742534?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web

[Jol Wilkinson]

7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Not all follow the stereotypes. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2023-08-20/livestock-rural-transporters-association-young-driver-award/102742534?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web

14 hours a day behind the wheel! Presumably no driver's daily hours limits?