recommendation of best analog controller

[Silver Sidelines]

I had an H&M Duette for many years.  However it had wire wound rheostats which wore through and made the unit inoperable.

 

I then bought a number of Gaugemaster units, first D (simple twins) and later DS (with brake simuator).  I am guessing that these have carbon rheostats and in my opinion are far superior to the earlier H&M design.

 

Noise may be an issue.  My early Gaugemaster controllers - the ones in big square boxes - were very quiet.  My newer controllers - shaped a bit like an upright piano - tend to produce quite a lot of 'mains hum'.  It would be interesting to hear what other people think.

 

Ray

[Brassey]

 

I recently acquired a Gaugemaster 100m, as a backup, which also has a lot of hum compared with my H&M Executive.  Both can power my Gaugemaster walkabout through their 16v outputs which is ideal for my needs.

 

Peter

[Metr0Land]

I then bought a number of Gaugemaster units, first D (simple twins) and later DS (with brake simuator).  I am guessing that these have carbon rheostats and in my opinion are far superior to the earlier H&M design.

 

Noise may be an issue.  My early Gaugemaster controllers - the ones in big square boxes - were very quiet.  My newer controllers - shaped a bit like an upright piano - tend to produce quite a lot of 'mains hum'.  It would be interesting to hear what other people think.

 

Ray

 

Same here.  Recently had to pension off the H&M Duette.  Very pleased with the Gaugemaster DS overall - esp slow speed control, but the hum definitely louder than Duette.

[FNM600]

  Apologies for repeating the post, but it is maily to make more visible in the chronologies.

 

 These are the basic technologies:

 

  Series variable resistance in the main circuit   Hammant & Morgan examples: Clipper and Duette (2 controllers in the same box)

 

  Variable voltage transformer         Hammant & Morgan examples: Safety Minor and Powermaster

 

  Electronic (transistorized) control       Hammant & Morgan examples: Electran and Executive

 

 The actual output waveform is usually in the non electronic types is just a rectified unidirectional series of sine waveforms (twice the AC mains frequency). For electronic types it can be dependant on the actual circuits used anything from almost pure level DC to trains of pulses (rectangular waves) or chopped sinewaves of frequencies varying from mains frequency (50Hz in Europe or 60Hz in N.America) to very high frequencies of up to tens of kHz. but in all cases overall unidirectional.

 

  These are the main advantages:

 

Series variable resistance:

 -  traditionally the cheapest and simplest sistem.

 

Variable voltage transformer:

 - the output voltage for a given setting is fairly constant for differently rated motors and at the varying loads, 

 -  it is like the series variable resistance type elettromechanical in nature and tolerant of overvoltages and brief short circuits.

-  It is energy efficent with just low transformer's losses.

 

  Electronic (transistorized) control:    

 - The output voltage for a given setting is constant and even stabilized regardless of the current drawn by the motors.

 - Possibility of adding all sort of features such as simulated inertia with realistic acceleration and braking.

 

  These are the disadvantages:

 

Series variable resistance:

 - The actual output voltage for a given setting varies a lot depending on the motor's rating and actual load such as hauled load and whether the train is climbing or descending a gradient.

- The reostat gets warm.

 

Variable voltage transformer:

 -  It is more expensive than the Series variable resistance type,

 

  Electronic (transistorized) control:    

- Its is more expensive than the simple series variable resistance and for older types more than the variable transformer too.

- Unless properly protected it can be damaged instantly by short circuits on the track and overvoltages. Beware of Relco type track cleaners.

________________________________________________

 

 Hoping it is useful !

Edited March 21, 2017 by FNM600

[DCB]

The Morley Vector or the older OnTrack would be my recommendation. These have voltage stabilisation, or voltage stability which gives very good speed stability for trains on undulating track.  Within some limits they also allow double heading with different mechanisms from different manufacturers and different eras. Motors run very smoothy and stay cool even during prolonged crawling. The ones FNM600 describes are basically this type. As a test when you turn the knob to minimum power the digital test meter shows under 1 volt.

 These have centre off control knobs and very light wander lead remote control units which work with cables at least 30 feet long.  Both types seem to work fine with Relcos.

 

There are several breeds of electronic controllers which use Pulse Width Modulation so instead of a constant (ish) voltage sinewave  you have spikes of 16 or 21 volts banging away for short pulses which make motors buzz noisily. These controllers  normally have reversing switches and show 16 volts or so as soon as you crack the control knob or slider off the stop. I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole if I was running DJM, Oxford, or 2017 Bachmann / Hornby models. They are fine of you use Triang/Hornby Mainline or Airfix  and don't mind burning out the odd motor.

 

The best budget controllers were the Jouef / Playcraft diode controllers which used diode drop to give variable voltage, I made my own variation with diodes from Maplin and a 12 way rotary switch which works a lot better than a Duette.   

 

The best 1960s controllers were the H&M Safety Minor variable transformers.  They varied the voltage supplied.   The superficially similar Clipper and double version the Duette were entry level variable resistor units with poor speed stability. To over simplify...With variable voltage, on a constant controller setting when a train comes to a hill mechanical resistance increases and the motor draws more amps up to the transformers rated maximum, maybe 1 amp, so maybe 1 amp at 6 volts uphill, 6va and 0.2 amp downhill 1va with minimal voltage and thus speed variation. The variable resistor will instead keep the va constant for a constant control knob setting maybe 6va equating to 6 volts at 1 amp uphill but 15 volts at 0.4 amps downhill, the motor speed being approximately equal to voltage this means it will probably be going over twice as fast downhill.  

 

The smart move might actually be to get a DCC controller and power DC locos through a decoder connected between the controller and the track. This will make upgrades to DCC less painful pocket wise if you can't live without the DCC lights and the sounds of steam, diesel, and welsh drivers singing emanating from your locos cabs and trackside bothys.

 

Did I mention I recommend the Morley Vector ?

Edited March 16, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[Retro_man]

I have an unused Codar controller - how does it compare and is it worth keeping?

 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Steve

Canada

[60159]

I'm very much a believer in simplest is best and have a total of 5 analogue Gaugemaster controllers. 3 of which are feedback models - 2 panel mounted and one handheld. I have a lovely little series D twin track (the flat one) for my rolling road and for my wheel cleaner. For my workbench test track I bought a very old 100M very cheap, as  not working. Gaugemaster guarantee their controllers for life so I sent it to them with an honest covering note and it was returned promptly, fixed at no charge and post free. Now, what can be better than that? Great service and good straight forward product. Recommended!

Edited March 16, 2017 by 60159

[Nearholmer]

Another Gaugemaster recommendation from me.

 

I currently use two, both of the older box-shaped casing type, and they are excellent.

 

As others have said, their service is excellent too, whether you email, write, phone, or visit them.

 

There is no real need to get into technicalities, unless you want to, and, without wishing to be unkind, I would suggest that FNM600's synopsis is somewhat out of date in some respects.

 

Kevin

[Steamport Southport]

Another one for Gaugemaster here.

 

 

 

 

Aren't we being told to avoid feedback controllers now though? I can't believe that anyone is recommending them unless all you have is old Triang or Hornby Dublo era models.

 

 

 

Jason

[davefrk]

There are several breeds of electronic controllers which use Pulse Width Modulation so instead of a constant (ish) voltage sinewave  you have spikes of 16 or 21 volts banging away for short pulses which make motors buzz noisily. These controllers  normally have reversing switches and show 16 volts or so as soon as you crack the control knob or slider off the stop. I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole if I was running DJM, Oxford, or 2017 Bachmann / Hornby models. They are fine of you use Triang/Hornby Mainline or Airfix  and don't mind burning out the odd motor.

 

 

Sorry but I don't agree with your comment on feedback controllers, I and friends have been using them on exhibition layouts for years, fantastic slow speed control and slow, realistic steady speeds through pointwork etc. We as a club have always had good comments about the running of the Alloa layout and have never burnt a motor out. Okay early ones, 1970s, were a bit coarse but more recent ones are fine with modern RTR and kit built. Yes some people have a poor electricity supply and this can affect the feedback and cause some buzzing, we experienced this with another layout at a show near London and enquired about it and were told by the caretaker the power was well down as usual - 180 volts and the cycles were down too. Two weeks later at another show but in Perth, Scotland the running was perfect once again.

And no, we don't run old Triang/Hornby Mainline or Airfix.....

 

Dave Franks.

[Steamport Southport]

You see that's what gets slightly bewildering. We're getting told not to use them by some quarters and others are telling us they are fine. Same goes for track cleaners, etc.

 

 

I think we could do with the definitive answer. Or pointing to the place that has the answers.

 

 

 

In Janet and John terms please.

 

 

 

Jason

[crompton 33]

One more for Gaugemaster.

[Nearholmer]

Dave

 

Voltage down I can believe; significant frequency variation, I can't.

 

Methinks the caretaker was making wild guesses.

 

K

Edited March 16, 2017 by Nearholmer

[davefrk]

Dave

 

Voltage down I can believe; significant frequency variation, I can't.

 

Methinks the caretaker was making wild guesses.

 

K

 

The caretaker went to the power room with the organiser and checked.

 

Dave Franks

[Nearholmer]

Unless the venue was connected to something other than the national grid, its own generator running in isolation, it isn't credible. The caretaker probably got confused.

 

Anyway, it's OT, so I probably shouldn't have picked-up on it; apologies.

 

K

[Horsetan]

You see that's what gets slightly bewildering. We're getting told not to use them by some quarters and others are telling us they are fine. Same goes for track cleaners, etc.

 

 

I think we could do with the definitive answer. ....

 

Perhaps there is no definitive answer.

 

I recently picked up an old Digitol simulator / controller. Not connected it for testing yet, but this looks a bit like an early Pentroller, in that it has regulator and brake handles, plus a direct drive function, but does not have the switching capability intended for coreless motors.

[yelrow]

As a guy, who has,  Morley, Guagemaster, H&M Duettes, and Clippers, i find them all excellent. Because of the 2 Hand held controllers, supplied free, with Morley,  this is particularly good value, with 5 year warranty.  On the other hand, Guagemaster, are guaranteed for life.  I have 7 duettes, and 5 clippers, and you can still pick them up on ebay for about £20. john

[muir]

Perhaps there is no definitive answer.

 

I recently picked up an old Digitol simulator / controller. Not connected it for testing yet, but this looks a bit like an early Pentroller, in that it has regulator and brake handles, plus a direct drive function, but does not have the switching capability intended for coreless motors.

Hi,

I picked up one of those, although admittedly I ran it with older motors.

Initially I thought it worked wonders, very good running etc, but after i got used to it I was finding that the rattling/ hum of the motors was actually quite excessive, like its using a fairly coarse wave so I've stopped using it, and just back to the antique H&M's with completely silent running. Seemed to work okay with more modern cans, but the vibration has kind of put me off it a bit...

[muddys-blues]

Thank god for that I was quite afraid to open this thread...

image.jpg

 

chuckle chuckle, I see this thread has appeared on the forum header pages again ..... with the unfortunate title showing 

[Stevelewis]

I  Recommend  Morley  controllers  ( Southport)  excellent  value,, robust  good  looking,  with  many  extras  supplied  at  no  extra  cost 

 

and  they  work  well.

 

 

is  this  an  old  thread  or  what!!

[Nearholmer]

Oh, so it is!

 

Revived at 00:29 today ........ how very odd!

[Nick G]

Do people still use analogue?  

[Nearholmer]

Well, I use it when I get fed-up with winding clockwork, and it's too rainy and dark to go outside and play with steam engines.

 

Why? Is there another technology available?

 

K

[NHY 581]

chuckle chuckle, I see this thread has appeared on the forum header pages again ..... with the unfortunate title showing

We need to keep this going if only for that reason alone.........

Edited March 16, 2017 by nhy581

[Stevelewis]

Do people still use analogue?  

 

oooh no  I  don't  I  have  forgotten  how  to  do   wirin' up &  all that  sort  of  thing