WCML100 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 finally seen the layout in the flesh. looks really good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hi, Firstly, a huge apology for not updating this thread sooner, it's partly due to a little post exhibition 'depression' (more on that in a second), my house move, Christmas, illness and a broken laptop. Last time I posted was between Peterborough and Wycrail, but it was short, so I thought I would give a run down of each show. Peterborough was the layouts debut show (I don't count Chinnor as being a show!), the Friday set up wasn't without its problems, the fiddle yard didn't quite go together, probably because we had made a difference in the width of the boards when we added the extension (although we had checked and we didnt think we had!), luckily we managed to beat it (almost literally) into submission. The unfortunately this sort is set the tone for the rest of the weekend. Saturday morning started early by welcoming Andy York to photograph the layout for BRM, he had to wait for me to re-wire the two position light signals to work off 12v and through the tortoise microswitches, but a broken wire stopped me making it fully work! The show opened, which is when the problems the started. We had two major problems throughout the weekend. Number 1 was the point on the scenic side of the outer line; somehow the switch blades had become damaged and because it was a facing point, a lot of the stock was coming off over the point, but only some at certain speeds . It took us a long time to figure out what stock went over at what speed made it over the point! Problem number 2 was the fiddle yard, amazingly easing the curves on the fiddle yard caused us more problems than before. The biggest culprit was my container train, it kept buffer locking on the corners. Which worked perfectly with the previous fiddle yard it was a shame as its one if the two trains that were really made for the layout! I think it maybe we're there isn't a constant radius that Pete laid it with originally. The other problem we had on the Saturday was more of stupidity. About mid way through the day, it appeared the interlocking had failed, I was sure it was the track circuits, which weren't the most reliable in the world, so pulled most of them from the interlocking. This didn't resolve the problems, so we left it until the end of the day. Kind of embarrassingly (being a signalling designer), it turns out that the rotary switches in the panel had twisted in the casing, so we weren't turning them to the correct position, a simple fix, but a big annoyance and embarrassment. The Sunday was much better, but we still had the odd problem with the point on the scenic side and the fiddle yard, I was interviewed for the BRM DVD and at the end of the day, the two gentleman came to film the layout itself, they were very professional and very good! I'm afraid that all of this did upset and depress me a bit and if I'm entirely honest I did say that I was going to put the layout up for sale, but I decided after help from and others to see how Wycrail went before making a decision. So, on to Wycrail! Wycrail was always going to be an 'interesting' show as I had left the High Wycombe a few months (for various reason which I won't go into). Again the Friday setup wasn't too bad apart from my interlocking seemingly failing to work again. So I came in extra early on the Saturday to find that the problem was that the two ribbon cables had been swapped . I'm still uncertain as to what the problem was as the two cables were identical and wired up in exactly the same way and the worked perfectly when swapped! This did give me the chance to run the stock and sort it all out, which meant that the days running was much better than Peterborough, but the point on the scenic side still gave us problems. The weekend also saw debut of a new 'train', I had purchased a EWS inspection saloon and fitted my EWS Class 37 with a decoder the week before the show, it made a nice little consist Even after Wycrail, there still remains problems with the layout and although I have decided for the moment to keep it and do a few shows, if I get the chance to build something different, I will (the main reason for not is lack of space in my new house), but I will sale the layout rather than scraping it. The obvious problem is a the point on the scenic side, I'm afraid that I think that this is, for me, unfixable, as I'll never be able to replace that one point without matching Petes beautiful ballasting. The other major problem is the operation of the layout, it is quite frankly a boring layout to operate for me personally, I had thought this when buying the layout, but I thought that with the Tram and signalling it wouldn't be boring. Unfortunately my ambitions have got the better of me and it hasn't materialised and connected with my lack of available modern southern stock, meant that for me, it's a boring layout. I must stress at this point that Petes ground work was great and it's been me who has created these problems. But for now, the layout is safe, nothing has happened to it since Wycrail as its in dada garage as I simply haven't the space to model anything in my house. Onto happier things, as mentioned the layout was photographed and filmed for BRM and the article is in the March Issue, the digital version is out now, I'm waiting for the print edition which is out on Thursday 2nd February, Andy York's photography is excellent! I did manage to take some photos: A Connex Class 205 'Thumper' sits in the turnback siding at Norwood Road having worked a service from London Bridge: A Firsr Great Western Class 150/1 stands in the turnback siding waiting to work a return evening rush hour service to Reading: The Class 150 leaves the turnback to form the once a day Norwood Road - Reading service: An Windhoff MPV finds refuse at the turnback siding at Norwood Road waiting to run to Selhurst Depot: A rather grubby preserved Battle of Britain 4-6-2 sits in the headshunt: A Class 150 is signalled into the turnback, the single yellow aspect and standard route indicator showing that the turnback is empty: An Overall view of the layout at Wycrail: Once last thing, I big thank you to my operating crew and helpers that have been extremely patient and supportive with me stressing out over issues! Regards, Simon 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The layout looks terrific Simon. You did something I was never able to do... finish it!!! I do sympathize with the problems you've had. Re: the layout being boring to operate... I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm lazy and when I conceived the layout, it was just meant to be somewhere to run trains. No operation required... just one train running unattended on the Up line and one on the Down. That would have pleased me but it's not hugely exciting, is it? Operation has never been my main interest, I get more enjoyment from building the actual layout structure. The sad fact about Tillig points is that they are incredibly fragile. It sounds as though the tiny solder tag underneath each point blade has become dislodged. An impossibility to fix without removing the point. Tillig most certainly have the edge on realism over Peco, but Peco is incredibly robust. If you do need to remove the point and repair or replace it, there is no secret to the ballasting. Humbrol 29 was used to give the trackwork a base colour of dirt and the ballast used was Woodland Scenics Fine Grey. Another fine blast of Humbrol 29 to blend everything in and then a little dry brushing with powders for variety. Have a break from it for a while. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2017 With regard to repairing or replacing the turnout, don't try to hide the fact, just leave it as fresh ballast and add some rail suitably rusted in the cess as if it would be if it had been changed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hi Simon Firstly, well done on an excellent article this months BRM We all have ups and with layouts and things not going to plan at shows for one reason or another (which reminds me I have to fix the turntable drive and also one of the signal operating on Fisherton Sarum before its next outing) With respect to turnout issue I am happy to help you to take a look at this, either to try and work out a repair or if it is needed to replace, with thanks to information provided by Pete in his post above we should be able to replace and either match the existing ballast and colouring or as Siberian suggested make it look like a recent bit of permanent way work (after all you have something for the track moneys that you have on the layout to look like they have been busy with!) I space to set up the layout is a constraint, as it is me and Fisherton Sarum but this can worked around. Keep your head up and I am sure we can resolve things, 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 The layout looks terrific Simon. You did something I was never able to do... finish it!!! I do sympathize with the problems you've had. Re: the layout being boring to operate... I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm lazy and when I conceived the layout, it was just meant to be somewhere to run trains. No operation required... just one train running unattended on the Up line and one on the Down. That would have pleased me but it's not hugely exciting, is it? Operation has never been my main interest, I get more enjoyment from building the actual layout structure. The sad fact about Tillig points is that they are incredibly fragile. It sounds as though the tiny solder tag underneath each point blade has become dislodged. An impossibility to fix without removing the point. Tillig most certainly have the edge on realism over Peco, but Peco is incredibly robust. If you do need to remove the point and repair or replace it, there is no secret to the ballasting. Humbrol 29 was used to give the trackwork a base colour of dirt and the ballast used was Woodland Scenics Fine Grey. Another fine blast of Humbrol 29 to blend everything in and then a little dry brushing with powders for variety. Have a break from it for a while. Hi Pete, Thank you for the kind words, I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but I'm quite proud of the layouts presentation, just a shame that what I have done on the 'underside' has let me down a bit. I don't think the layout would be boring if I was to have more multiple units (and modern at that, not just my 4-CEP / 4-VEP) and to instigate a sequence, which I didn't have time to plan out prior to the shows. The problem being that I simply can't afford to get more 4 car multiple units and I can't guarantee that they will run considering the point problems. Having said that, I do like the fact that I can give my units a good run, something which I couldn't do with my previous layouts. With regard to repairing or replacing the turnout, don't try to hide the fact, just leave it as fresh ballast and add some rail suitably rusted in the cess as if it would be if it had been changed. I have thought about doing that, but I just think it wouldn't look quite right, stuff like that has to be done well, as I've found that if you just leave fresh ballast, then it looks like you've just left the ballast, it doesn't look like you've created a scene, if that makes sense? Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hi, Also, I would be more willing to work on the layout again if I had some exhibition invites, the only one I have at the moment is for Doncaster 2018, with potential invites from DEMU and Croydon, but nothing for this year. I would like to do some more shows with it, I made the mistake of not really advertising the layout due to its problems and my thoughts of getting rid of it. If I was to have more shows, I would probably look at getting more stock, fixing the problems and I'm seriously considering rebuilding the control panel into a proper individual function switch panel! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hi Pete, Thank you for the kind words, I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but I'm quite proud of the layouts presentation, just a shame that what I have done on the 'underside' has let me down a bit. I don't think the layout would be boring if I was to have more multiple units (and modern at that, not just my 4-CEP / 4-VEP) and to instigate a sequence, which I didn't have time to plan out prior to the shows. The problem being that I simply can't afford to get more 4 car multiple units and I can't guarantee that they will run considering the point problems. Having said that, I do like the fact that I can give my units a good run, something which I couldn't do with my previous layouts. I have thought about doing that, but I just think it wouldn't look quite right, stuff like that has to be done well, as I've found that if you just leave fresh ballast, then it looks like you've just left the ballast, it doesn't look like you've created a scene, if that makes sense? Simon Add some orange army with shovells and perhaps kangos and don't forget the lookouts. A BR,Network Rail or Railtrack van parked nearby would help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2017 Add some orange army with shovells and perhaps kangos and don't forget the lookouts. A BR,Network Rail or Railtrack van parked nearby would help. More - there's already half a company from that army there 'brightening ' the scene If Simon adds any more he'll after issue viewers with dark glasses - sort of like the specs you used to get when going to watch a 3-D film (but don't be mistaken it is a beautifully detailed 'modern image' [as in really modern] layout and a pleasure to watch) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) More - there's already half a company from that army there 'brightening ' the scene If Simon adds any more he'll after issue viewers with dark glasses - sort of like the specs you used to get when going to watch a 3-D film I did get told at Wycrail (by I think a manager at NR) that my orange army figures shouldn't be on the layout as they wore caps instead of hard hats! How he could tell at 3 feet away (or why he cared) defeats me... Simon Edited January 31, 2017 by St. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRail Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I did get told at Wycrail (by I think a manager at NR) that my orange army figures shouldn't be on the layout as they wore caps instead of hard hats! How he could tell at 3 feet away (or why he cared) defeats me... Simon ww Simon Have looked back at the photos on your thread and can't see any of the orange army wearing caps as opposed to hard hats. He Sounds a bit of a knob to me. You don't seem to have too much luck with exhibitions. I think you will have to bite the bullet and replace the faulty turn out if you don't you will have problems for ever and a day. My guess is that once you have changed it you will wonder what you worried about. Just work out how you will do it before starting. I would suggest just cut the switch to get it out remove a couple of sleepers from the track either side to allow new fishplates to be slid onto the adjant rail out of the way then drop back into place the new switch and once installed the fishplates can be slid back onto the new switch to join everything up. New Sleepers can then be slid in and glued in place after. All will hidden by ballasting and a bit of weathering. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony566 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I did get told at Wycrail (by I think a manager at NR) that my orange army figures shouldn't be on the layout as they wore caps instead of hard hats! How he could tell at 3 feet away (or why he cared) defeats me... Simon There is ALWAYS one rivet counter ....... I think the layout looks fantastic in every way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Stunning layout! I have loved watching it develop and if it ever does come up for sale then I'll snap it up haha 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hi, Just picked up a copy of March BRM with Norwood Road in it and although I was stunned by the photos when Andy first sent them over, they are really good in the Mag! Simon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Must remember to buy a copy. Andy told me about things like focus-stacking when he shot North Street, but a lot of it went over my head. Suffice to say, he does take a good picture! Looking forward to seeing the article, Simon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRail Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Stunning layout! I have loved watching it develop and if it ever does come up for sale then I'll snap it up haha Postage could be a bit much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Postage could be a bit much I'll sneak it in a massive suitcase Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melangoose Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Hi Simon, I have been admiring your work on Norwood Road for sometime, you have good attention to detail on Infrustucture topics. The pictures in the latest BRM are very nice, you must be very proud. Re your point issue, have a look at how Mick Bryan on New Bryford did his replacement, think you might find it worth while. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/40199-new-bryford/page-5 Look forward to seeing the layout in the flesh sometime. Regards Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Just had a good read-through of BRM. Excellent article, Simon. The tech stuff still goes way over my head, but we can't all live in the 21st Century. In the 75C household, it's 1983 every day! Well done. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 Hi, However, spurred on by the feedback on the layout and magazine article I have received not only from you guys, but the likes of Ben Jones and Andy York as well as members of my operating crew, I have decided to actually take the layout forward and have a good stab at fixing the problems with the layout, as well as making a few improvements: 1) The Scenic Point - Having looked at photos before and after the tortoise point motors were installed, it seems that as we cut away the motor shaft (using a slitting disk and therefore pushing the point tie bar), the R/H blade has been bent away from the stock rail, I don’t think this was a problem with heavier power bogies on locos or MUs, but it caused the trailing bogies on units and wagons to jump off the rails. I am liaising with Graham_Muz of this parish to rectify this 2) Signaling - I have decided to abandon a full NX Panel in favour of a ‘Relock & Recontrol’ onto a enhanced I.F.S. panel (much like the little box I already have, but a new more switches), this will make it a lot simpler to wire up and interlock (still using a Arduino). I have already designed a replacement set of face plates for the panel that I had created, so I don’t have to and buy a whole new enclosure, and I’m already working on the locking! It will also include a SPAD alarm, so everyone will know whether you’ve passed a signal at danger! Additionally, I have also decided to install another ground signal on the inner circuit near the station facing the turnback, so we can do moves from the inner circuit reversing into the turnback, just for a little bit of interest. I will also dig out the ground signal in the headshunt and replace it as one of the wires has snapped. 3) Operating - So, I will start to create a proper sequence for the layout so we aren’t bored (although most of my operating crew disagrees that it was boring to operate 4) Stock – I do lack a little bit of stock for the layout (come on Bachmann bring out an Electrostar!), although some of this was down to the stock coming off in the fiddle yard, like my container train. I will look into what’s causing this and try to rectify. I’m also looking at getting some other bits and bobs (Dapol 68 for instance) to bolster the suitable stock list. 5) Graham_Muz has suggested that I use the layout for showing off the details and inform people about modern detailing and signalling and I will look into how to add information boards on the curved layout front 6) Scenics – There’s some scenic work still to complete, mostly of a ‘touching up’ nature to finish off the odd bits and pieces that we missed. The biggest scenic alteration I would like to make is to the footbridge at the tram stop end of the layout, I would like to replace the southern concrete bridge with this bridge (taken from a screenshot of a Youtube Video): I feel that the Concrete footbridge is a little bit of cliché on a southern layout, plus this bridge looks a bit different and a bit of a challenge (to someone at least!) A possible, long term thing is to extend the layout width-wise, one to add some space in the well of the layout to allow us to operate, but also it add a scenic part of station to make things a little more interesting thing. At the moment, the only show I have for the layout is Doncaster next year, but I do think I would like to do some more shows, so if you know anybody looking for modern 'OO' layout, please get in touch! In the meantime, all remember to buy BRM this month to see Andy Ys photos of Norwood Road! Simon 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRail Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Simon, That's all god news Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
73c Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Just out of interest, where is that bridge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) Just out of interest, where is that bridge?It's the first over bridge you reach when travelling from Waddon towards West Croydon Simon Edited February 11, 2017 by St. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 That bridge certainly has some character, Simon. In reality, it's just a footbridge - I've walked over it many times. Will you be modelling it as such, or using a bit of license and turning it into a roadbridge? Apologies for the fuzzy crop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I did get told at Wycrail (by I think a manager at NR) that my orange army figures shouldn't be on the layout as they wore caps instead of hard hats! How he could tell at 3 feet away (or why he cared) defeats me... Simon you can wear orange bump caps or white hard hats these days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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