RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2015 On the C&L web site today: "We hope to be able to make an announcement regarding the availability of Turnout Kits in a ready to use format. This has been an ongoing development that looks likely to be almost ready to make available. Watch out for a further announcement shortly." No statement about whether they will be DOGA-Intermediate, DOGA-Fine, or 00-SF. Their current assembled crossings have 1.0mm flangeways, so only suitable for the last two, or EM. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I definately recon it'll be 00-sf!!! Dave 00-sf Smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Their current assembled crossings have 1.0mm flangeways, so only suitable for the last two, or EM. Or those for P4... :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Mmmm - 'Turnout Kits in a ready to use format' - I wonder what that means.....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Mmmm - 'Turnout Kits in a ready to use format' - I wonder what that means.....? Simple C&L have ready built kits available in limited runs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Simple C&L have ready built kits available in limited runs Many people find the kits too expensive let alone already assembled versions..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Jeff Like everything, if you do it yourselves its a lot cheaper. Having anything hand made costs money, how much is it to have a loco built? As for the costs of a kit, if you are buying a few kits it's so much cheaper buying the component parts. Off the top of my head in its simplest form, £10 to £15 from components if you make the common crossings and switch rails yourself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted August 26, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2015 I've just spoken to Pete at C&L - they will (initially) be B6 in 00 (16.5mm), with a 1.25mm Flangeway. Tiebars will be fitted, also a wire from the Frog (sorry Martin) . Pete hopes to have examples in 0 Gauge and P4 at forthcoming shows, but just to gauge interest. Production will be limited to 3/4 a week at the moment, so there may well be a wait for them if you want one. HTH polybear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted August 26, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 26, 2015 also a wire from the Frog (sorry Martin) Hi Brian, "Frog" is ok. It's the standard term in the USA and is increasingly being used in the UK in relation to cast crossings. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hi Brian, "Frog" is ok. It's the standard term in the USA and is increasingly being used in the UK in relation to cast crossings. Martin. Perhaps sorry was more for the 1.25mm flangeway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted September 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2015 Nope - it was for the term "Frog". Fortunately Martin let it go - no ankle tag this time And I wouldn't dare critisise 1.25mm...."someone" may take offence... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted September 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2015 I saw an example of the C&L ready made turnout at S4um yesterday; it was a B6 in P4, using (I think) C&L (Black) timbers and Exactoscale (Brown) chairs. And very nicely made too, at first glance - not even a sign of excess (or any, for that matter) glue or solvent at the timber/chair interface. Price? Approximately £108 each. HTH polybear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I e-mailed Pete last week and asked if he could post a picture and asked what the point would be. He said it would be 00 not 00-SF and based on the exactoscale template. Maybe the 00 ones will be cheaper as there is potentionaly a bigger market than P4. Keith HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted September 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2015 I e-mailed Pete last week and asked if he could post a picture and asked what the point would be. He said it would be 00 not 00-SF and based on the exactoscale template. Maybe the 00 ones will be cheaper as there is potentionaly a bigger market than P4. Keith HC Since they are building to order and so not holding stock, the size of the potential market should not influence the price. Then again at that price, I rather doubt if there is a market anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Since they are building to order and so not holding stock, the size of the potential market should not influence the price. Then again at that price, I rather doubt if there is a market anyway. But that's not really "ready assembled". Ready assembled is going into your local model shop and picking one off the shelf, and the online equivalent. For that they have to be built for stock, and that should give economies of scale and reduce the price, especially if unskilled/semi-skilled workers can be trained to turn them out quickly in large quantities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdaveadams1 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Think I'll stick with marcway then. Once my little boy grows up a bit, I'll start to try building turnouts but until then, Marcway offers the perfect compromise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 But that's not really "ready assembled". Ready assembled is going into your local model shop and picking one off the shelf, and the online equivalent. For that they have to be built for stock, and that should give economies of scale and reduce the price, especially if unskilled/semi-skilled workers can be trained to turn them out quickly in large quantities. I think if this idea takes off then initially there will be a few made a week, as I assume the builder has a lot of other commitments. I have seen the built P4 turnout but had little time to look at it closely to see what parts have been used. Many items in your local store may be out of stock or special order, as Pete said its ready built but not ready assembled I guess the biggest slice of the price is the labour cost to build it. That will depend on who builds it and their rate of pay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Thank you for starting this thought provoking thread. I have to admit, having read most of the postings, that I am rather puzzled by the whole thing. We know that there is a demand for better looking trackwork in OO, and this is clearly a "Rolls Royce" product. But tHe price (£108) is eye-watering, though reasonable for the labour and skill involved. Prices need to be considered not with reference to the cost of manufacture but whether the market can bear the it. How many people will care to this degree about the look of their track AND be able and prepared to spend that much on it? The turnouts for my layout would have cost around £5,000 which is out of the question! And if one cared that much about the appearance would one really want to build a layout from a catalogue of standard turnouts? My guess is that these will appeal to micro-layout builders who believe they lack the skill to build their own and want a step change in the quality of their track and need less than a handful of turnouts. Someone will surely come up with a 3D printed version that will sell at a fraction of the price and grab a much bigger market. Anyone who hankers after these in any sort of quantity might get a better return on investment by attending a track-building modellers' weekend and learning how to emulate it. As a matter of interest does anyone know who is building them? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 My guess is that these will appeal to micro-layout builders who believe they lack the skill to build their own and want a step change in the quality of their track and need less than a handful of turnouts. Chris Yes and by the same logic micro layouts can have hand built track without taking too long. One costs money the other costs time...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Surely a point is "ready-assembled" if it drops onto my doormat and all I have to do is PVA it to some cork? It doesn't matter to me if it's been assembled to order by C&L or picked from a shelf in a box-shifter's warehouse from amongst a vast number of identical items. You've provoked another thought. Once PVA'd down it's going to be a darned sight harder to get up again without damage than a (say) Peco turnout. So maybe not easily reusable? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 You've provoked another thought. Once PVA'd down it's going to be a darned sight harder to get up again without damage than a (say) Peco turnout. So maybe not easily reusable? Chris So, how often would hand made track be re-used? I'm guessing not often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 A good soaking with warm water soon lifts track laid with pva. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I'm guessing for plastic sleepers this might work as PVA does not really adhere too well to plastic or PCB, however I'm sure ply sleepers would not release easily unless glued with water soluble glue. In the US School Glue, which looks just like PVA, will dissolve with water. I know this because I used diluted School Glue for ballasting then found it softened when wash was applied...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Thank you for starting this thought provoking thread. I have to admit, having read most of the postings, that I am rather puzzled by the whole thing. We know that there is a demand for better looking trackwork in OO, and this is clearly a "Rolls Royce" product. But tHe price (£108) is eye-watering, though reasonable for the labour and skill involved. Prices need to be considered not with reference to the cost of manufacture but whether the market can bear the it. How many people will care to this degree about the look of their track AND be able and prepared to spend that much on it? The turnouts for my layout would have cost around £5,000 which is out of the question! And if one cared that much about the appearance would one really want to build a layout from a catalogue of standard turnouts? My guess is that these will appeal to micro-layout builders who believe they lack the skill to build their own and want a step change in the quality of their track and need less than a handful of turnouts. Someone will surely come up with a 3D printed version that will sell at a fraction of the price and grab a much bigger market. Anyone who hankers after these in any sort of quantity might get a better return on investment by attending a track-building modellers' weekend and learning how to emulate it. As a matter of interest does anyone know who is building them? Chris Chris I have copied a statement from C+L regarding the price Beautifully hand built turnout with both C&L and Exactoscale 'special chairs' for added effect and effective stretcher bar for connection to point motor. Hand crafted by professional track builder. Cost is as for a C&L kit plus £60 for providing it ready to use straight from the packet. Just connect the feed wires tabs and operating system. How many hours work would you save by spending £60 on having it made for you! There are modellers who have the disposable cash to buy a few, their option is £48 + 4 modelling hours per turnout. Others could be built for a lot less when the components are bought separately and the parts fabricated. On the other hand there are a small group who can afford whole layouts to be hand built Another thought is to buy a kit just to see how these turnouts are built, then buy the components. The ready built turnout does use a slightly different construction method of the common crossing and tiebar, and has parts not in the kit. But the build system used may be easier for the home builder. If someone has several turnouts to build then it would be cost effective to buy the EMGS Vee filing jig and the switch rail filing jig, both being £34 each and can be easily re-sold on a well known auction site recouping most if not all their cost Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted January 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2016 At risk of crossing threads, what I'd like to see for 00 is mass produced turnouts to match this product, (OK maybe they would be thick sleeper). This would leave C&L to sell (ready made), the items which won't be commercial to mass produce for some time, the slips, diamonds etc. I think this would suit many modellers, and hopefully shouldn't disadvantage C&L too much. Thanks Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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