d600 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Hi I've never used isopropyl has a degreaser is it ok to use on metal and plastics also would you strip loco down to blacken the brass spacers or do them on loco. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 If and when I get around to it, I shall remove the wide brass spacers and replace them with a brass shims. In the meantime, I have used a black 'magic marker' to blacken the visually offending parts, as that seems to be a safe option;. I would not leave blackening fluid unwashed from any parts that I blacken. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Hi I've never used isopropyl has a degreaser is it ok to use on metal and plastics also would you strip loco down to blacken the brass spacers or do them on loco. Cheers Its fine for metal and plastics. No need not strip down just degrease bushes/washers with a cotton bud soaked in isopropyl then use chemical black solution you manage need to run in black solution with cotton bud several time to get depth of colour or use a black permanent marker (I find Sharpie pens are the best) then lightly oil using oil Dapol recomend in their instruction sheets. If you were worried about possible damage then suggest try on paints chassis underneath just to show its OK. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Hi I have suggested that he phone Dapol but he does not want to go to the hassle of sending it back for what is or should be a fairly trivial problem. As for posting a photo - I saw it tonight there's not much to see really, a loose buffer head which is metal and the buffer housing, inside the housing there appears to be a shaft which moves but does not drop out. It could be that this shaft has a screw thread which screws into the buffer head but in any event the spring appears to be missing. An exploded diagram would be useful here. Norman Agreed - I would recommend getting in touch with DCC Supplies then and getting his name on the list for spares/diagram, or getting similar springs and replacing such - the springing is a little on the slack side anyway and could do with upgrading? Failing that, would Richard Webster know? Thanks, your reply is much appreciated, makes me wonder which cab is prototypical, or if they both are? Those are sage words of advice thanks, as I mentioned in a previous Post, if it aint broke then dont fix it....IF I were to convert the collets/bushes/axles, like you, I believe that a brass washer in their place would be prudent-theres bound to be some sideways movement, so washers, or smaller collets/bushes would be required. My other option is to paint the OEM parts black, leave as they are, and run the loco until something breaks/wears out and then modify. Yes agreed will just used metal black solution on mine will degrease with isopropyl alcohol first I am a little wary of using blackening solution (although I have one that, dies/neutralises after 3 mins, with or without extra cleaning) my loco seems well oiled - unlike me, sadly! - even on some of the paintwork. May I ask what ratio/brand of IPA you use? Hi I've never used isopropyl has a degreaser is it ok to use on metal and plastics also would you strip loco down to blacken the brass spacers or do them on loco. Cheers One can blacken them (but that maybe a risky strategy), use a permanent marker pen, or use 'Black Magic' paint, as that sticks to anything...... If and when I get around to it, I shall remove the wide brass spacers and replace them with a brass shims. In the meantime, I have used a black 'magic marker' to blacken the visually offending parts, as that seems to be a safe option;. I would not leave blackening fluid unwashed from any parts that I blacken. David Yes David, that's prudent, as you correctly point out, blackening can leave areas exposed to oxidisation etc. Have you any ideas about taking some of the 'slack' out of the joints on the rods? Its fine for metal and plastics. No need not strip down just degrease bushes/washers with a cotton bud soaked in isopropyl then use chemical black solution you manage need to run in black solution with cotton bud several time to get depth of colour or use a black permanent marker (I find Sharpie pens are the best) then lightly oil using oil Dapol recomend in their instruction sheets. If you were worried about possible damage then suggest try on paints chassis underneath just to show its OK. Good advice. These Sharpie pens seem all the rage now. I may just used some IPA wipes. Just wondering how I can clean the lower cab sides and running plate of oil w/o damaging the paint. I tend to use Labelle oils, sparingly, but my loco came with lots of oil on it from new - I mopped the worst up with a cotton bud. I never know which brand/ratio/mix of IPA to use on model's paint work...any recommendations greatly appreciated. ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yes David, ... Have you any ideas about taking some of the 'slack' out of the joints on the rods? CME Ah, CME, now you are the third person to ask me that! OK, I give in, I'm off to the workshop shortly and I'll have a good look at my 08, have a ponder and report back in due course. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted December 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 9, 2016 The cab does look a bit different to the MMP one. The door on the Dapol one seems a bit further forward than the MMP one. It shows up when trying to fit the numbers in. I used what are now HMRS transfers (I bought them when they were PC models!) on both locos and while they fitted OK on the MMP cab they were very tight on the Dapol one. Dapol have used smaller sized numbers and I wonder if BR did the same. I have ordered some Railtec numbers to see if they fit better as at the moment it looks a bit squashed. BR did use smaller numbers on blue 08s for the most part. Standard loco numbers were 8" high, but 08s (and other shunters) used 6" high. The exception being some ScR depots/workshops which used 10" numbers on mainline locos and 8" for 08s for a period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Agreed - I would recommend getting in touch with DCC Supplies then and getting his name on the list for spares/diagram, or getting similar springs and replacing such - the springing is a little on the slack side anyway and could do with upgrading? Failing that, would Richard Webster know? I am a little wary of using blackening solution (although I have one that, dies/neutralises after 3 mins, with or without extra cleaning) my loco seems well oiled - unlike me, sadly! - even on some of the paintwork. May I ask what ratio/brand of IPA you use? One can blacken them (but that maybe a risky strategy), use a permanent marker pen, or use 'Black Magic' paint, as that sticks to anything...... Yes David, that's prudent, as you correctly point out, blackening can leave areas exposed to oxidisation etc. Have you any ideas about taking some of the 'slack' out of the joints on the rods? Good advice. These Sharpie pens seem all the rage now. I may just used some IPA wipes. Just wondering how I can clean the lower cab sides and running plate of oil w/o damaging the paint. I tend to use Labelle oils, sparingly, but my loco came with lots of oil on it from new - I mopped the worst up with a cotton bud. I never know which brand/ratio/mix of IPA to use on model's paint work...any recommendations greatly appreciated. ATVB CME I use..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/LITRE-Pharmaceutical-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Isopropanol/dp/B00WL8NHEA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481301551&sr=8-1&keywords=ipa+isopropyl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastdax Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I use..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/LITRE-Pharmaceutical-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Isopropanol/dp/B00WL8NHEA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481301551&sr=8-1&keywords=ipa+isopropyl I just ordered http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SHL-1-Litre-1000ml-Isopropanol-Isopropyl-Alcohol-99-9-IPA-CHILD-PROOF-CAP-/370553401624?hash=item5646b43118:g:IgsAAOSwyjBW20gP They do MEK and Acetone also - very useful for modellers. Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Ah, CME, now you are the third person to ask me that! OK, I give in, I'm off to the workshop shortly and I'll have a good look at my 08, have a ponder and report back in due course. David BR did use smaller numbers on blue 08s for the most part. Standard loco numbers were 8" high, but 08s (and other shunters) used 6" high. The exception being some ScR depots/workshops which used 10" numbers on mainline locos and 8" for 08s for a period. I use..... https://www.amazon.co.uk/LITRE-Pharmaceutical-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Isopropanol/dp/B00WL8NHEA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481301551&sr=8-1&keywords=ipa+isopropyl I just ordered http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SHL-1-Litre-1000ml-Isopropanol-Isopropyl-Alcohol-99-9-IPA-CHILD-PROOF-CAP-/370553401624?hash=item5646b43118:g:IgsAAOSwyjBW20gP They do MEK and Acetone also - very useful for modellers. Duncan Thanks all! BTW, I am sure that in the past, at work we had IPA that had a lower % of alcohol than those that we mentioned, and we used such on painted surfaces - without any damage to the paintwork - for degreasing, I had some small stocks of that until a year or two back Ha ha! So I was wondering if the 99% stuff is still okay to use on painted surfaces, ie the 08. Will the 99% IPA evaporate quickly and degrease without damaging the paint? ATVB CME Edited December 9, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Ah, CME, now you are the third person to ask me that! OK, I give in, I'm off to the workshop shortly and I'll have a good look at my 08, have a ponder and report back in due course. David Right then, this is what I have found. And here in words and pictures is how to do it ... well, wouldn't that be nice. I shall not be offended if you skip to the next topic! Without actually doing it, of course, I cannot be specific but the problem is one of over generous clearances to ensure it all 'works' after assembly on mass production. The simple solution is to bush all the holes in the rods to achieve a better fit (ie remove most of the play/slop) on the crankpins and to remove almost all the play in the joint in two of the rods. If and when I come to do it, I would measure very precisely the distances between the individual axles and make a note. I would then measure equally precisely the distance between the holes in the rods, again making a note. With a fair wind, the distances would all match within a smidgen (say within 0.05mm, or 2 thou) so I could make plain brass bushes that are a force fit in the existing holes in the rods, making the holes in the bushes about 0.1mm (4 thou) greater in diameter than the diameter of the crankpins. In practice, I would expect to have to open up the holes in the rods to give a reasonable thickness for the wall of the bush. If the holes did not match up so well, I would open up the holes and plug them completely with a brass plug and then re-drill the plugs at the correct centres. This last operation I would have to do on my milling machine to achieve the required precision in the centre distances but I expect their are people here with toolmaker skills adequate to do this by hand (possibly drill undersize, measure, correct the position by drawing the hole over with a round needle file, open up the hole with a larger drill, re-measure ... open up to final size). Refitting the rods will almost certainly result in binding because the quartering is not consistent (the angle doesn't need to be 90 deg but all the axles do need to have their cranks offset by the same angle). So all that is needed is to rotate one or two of the cranks until the pair on each axle are offset by the same angle. Yes, yes, I hear you but I don't know because I haven't done it yet on this model. At the end of the day, even with the best of efforts, the 0.1mm clearance may not be adequate. Short of starting again (oh what joy!) some of the holes in the rods may be elongated slightly with a file (not just drilled out larger, please); it's just a matter of working out in which direction - are the holes to far apart or too close together causing the jam or tight spot? Perhaps the first person to do this could amplify with details and illustrations ... so that I'll know what to watch out for ;-) Any questions? No. Good. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d600 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) I think I'm going to add a driver and 2nd man and enjoy mine has it comes from Dapol after all it's a lot better than I could build lol. Cheers Edited December 10, 2016 by d600 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) I think I'm going to add a driver and 2nd man and enjoy mine has it comes from Dapol after all it's a lot better than I could build lol. Cheers Yes agreed make the most of loco as it's taken out of the box with non evasive mods. I have just painted a nice 7mm scale 3D printed figure from 'Modelu' (not strictly a diesel driver but looked the best for the 1960's era and was probably a typical pose used now and again). Link to a very interesting new site and the chap I painted... http://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/ws065-loco-crew-standing-with-hands-in-pockets/ For info primed him with white primer from Halfords first and used humbrol enamels for rest. I will upload photo of my chap latter. Edited December 10, 2016 by Greenmodelmonkey 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) In the latest BRM magazine which reviews the new Dapol Class it looked as though the reason for the brass bushes is becoming more apparent.... It's a probably due to 3D parts on the side frames such as springs and axle boxes being underscale (i.e. no to scale depth) and bushes used to put connecting rods in the correct 'out board' position (something which will be lost if bushes are removed) I also suggest the side frames are not in the right place compared to the real thing (don't forget this is made for 32mm gauge not Scale 7 which could add a further 1mm to chassis width). Having said that I have no complaints as it's a stunning model and realise that we can't have everything absolutely correct at the price so there will be compromises which can be overcome in many ways as suggest on this forum. Keep up the good work all as its very interesting! Edited December 10, 2016 by Greenmodelmonkey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Yes agreed make the most of loco as it's taken out of the box with non evasive mods. I have just painted a nice 7mm scale 3D printed figure from 'Modelu' (not strictly a diesel driver but looked the best for the 1960's era and was probably a typical pose used now and again). Link to a very interesting new site and the chap I painted... http://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/ws065-loco-crew-standing-with-hands-in-pockets/ For info primed him with white primer from Halfords first and used humbrol enamels for rest. I will upload photo of my chap latter. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 10, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Blimey! He is a bit clean, obviously the result of keeping his hands in his pockets........just wait till the Yard Foreman catches him.... Edited December 10, 2016 by boxbrownie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Has anyone had difficulty in taking the roof off as the only safe way to remove mine was to gently (or "gentry" as instruction say) squeeze sides of the loco body then pull roof upwards rather than squeezing the roof as the instructions state. When I eventually got the roof off I realised the clips were on the body with location lips facing outwards and location onto the roof sides so squeezing the roof makes it tighter to get roof off. I did get roof off by following instructions but realise it only came off because I was pulling so hard in order to overcome the clips which were being squeezed even tighter, gently squeezing did nothing. Has anyone found roof difficult to remove like me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adc Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Has anyone had difficulty in taking the roof off as the only safe way to remove mine was to gently (or "gentry" as instruction say) squeeze sides of the loco body then pull roof upwards rather than squeezing the roof as the instructions state. When I eventually got the roof off I realised the clips were on the body with location lips facing outwards and location onto the roof sides so squeezing the roof makes it tighter to get roof off. I did get roof off by following instructions but realise it only came off because I was pulling so hard in order to overcome the clips which were being squeezed even tighter, gently squeezing did nothing. Has anyone found roof difficult to remove like me? Yes, exactly the same problem. Managed to unclip the roof next to the cab and raise slightly, and then gently slide some cardboard down the gap to get the other clips. The diagram included with the loco shows to lugs from the roof panel but fails to show the clips coming up from the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Yes, exactly the same problem. Managed to unclip the roof next to the cab and raise slightly, and then gently slide some cardboard down the gap to get the other clips. The diagram included with the loco shows to lugs from the roof panel but fails to show the clips coming up from the body. Yes thats how I did it to start with as there is nowhere to grip the roof due to the side handrails, think they may have dropped a clanger on roof removal. Far easier if you gently push in the body but make sure you don't push on the metal door grab handles located on the sides otherwise you risk pushing them into the body to far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 IMG_20161210_084906.jpg There is good news and bad news.... The good news I now have a driver in the cab the bad news is that the lower door hinge broke when he clambered in... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 10, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2016 He's gonna bop his nut in there too! Maybe you should get him at 1:48 so he can see out of the windows Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted December 10, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) With regard to the slop in the coupling rods may I suggest that if the knuckle joint is a loose and sloppy fit, then re-jointing somehow - so the distance between the rod crankpin centres becomes a constant measurement - should be all that is needed. It has to be accepted that a measure of rod angle might exist when the driven axle is an outer one (the result of additive crankpin play which will exist whether the rods are fixed or jointed), and I believe this may be the case with the Dapol 08 from the recent shots I have seen You will appreciate that rod knuckle joints are usually positioned in relation to the driven axle on the prototype - usually the centre axle/s on most 6/8 coupled chassis (which helps equalise any play in the crankpins), but many models are driven off the rear axle. This can become problematic when jointed rods are used (the knuckle joint mostly being to the rear of the centre axle) and too much play is present in the knuckle joint, leading to rods with continually variable rod centres. The amount of play of the rods on the crankpins is not generally problematic so long as the rod centres are constant, but 'slotting' the holes isn't to be recommended because this once again produces rods with continually variable crankpin centres. Izzy (edited to add some info) Edited December 11, 2016 by Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 He's gonna bop his nut in there too! Maybe you should get him at 1:48 so he can see out of the windows Errrr... know what you mean .....just checked his height and he is a scale 6'4" but his mate is 5'10" (the Station Master from 'Modelu'also). Hmmm.. 3D scanning does produce accurate renditions in all dimensions (I might have a word Modelu to see if print could be made a little shorter than the original chap was likely to have been in real life..). Failing that I could reduce him by a foot if I cut off his feet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Failing that I could reduce him by a foot if I cut off his feet. Surely that would be 2 foot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray M Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) Take 2 or 3mm of the bottom of his legs then replace his feet (it might work ) Sorry,i was thinking of 00 gauge. you may need a little more. Edited December 11, 2016 by Ray M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 11, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2016 Errrr... know what you mean .....just checked his height and he is a scale 6'4" but his mate is 5'10" (the Station Master from 'Modelu'also). Hmmm.. 3D scanning does produce accurate renditions in all dimensions (I might have a word Modelu to see if print could be made a little shorter than the original chap was likely to have been in real life..). Failing that I could reduce him by a foot if I cut off his feet. Shorter = Fatter............1:48 = A bit smaller...........but if the scan isn't you, it doesn't matter. And if you chop a section from his legs he really will be out of proportion, noticeable if he is standing at the door.......he may well be worse than the Heljan scan of the Prairie everyone is so worried about Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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