The Taddington branch of the LNWR

[airnimal]

Hi, hope these photo's come out.

[Argos]

Indeed they have,

 

Very nice, presumably the second chassis is a 0-4-2 box tank?

Which begs the question what are the other set of wheels for?

 

I like the D33 and D16 vans are they scratch built?

 

A D32 is also on the "to do" list but will have to be scratch built as I don't think there is a kit available, the D33s weren't built until 1894.

I'll definitely be need a D16 Brake van though, hope mine looks as good!

[airnimal]

Indeed they have,

 

Very nice, presumably the second chassis is a 0-4-2 box tank?

Which begs the question what are the other set of wheels for?

 

I like the D33 and D16 vans are they scratch built?

 

A D32 is also on the "to do" list but will have to be scratch built as I don't think there is a kit available, the D33s weren't built until 1894.

I'll definitely be need a D16 Brake van though, hope mine looks as good!

[airnimal]

The van is a Dia32 built from my own kit that I produced approx 10years ago. I don't have any left. I let A.B.S have the master and Adrain Swain made one batch but I am not sure if they are still available. The Dia 16 is also from my own kit that I made a couple of years ago. I still have a few left minus the roofs.

 

Yes the 0-4-2 is for dock tank that ran on Cromford warf in the 20's. Not sure if they ran there before that but who can prove that they didn't.

 

And yes the Airnimal name is my tourning bike that I use when cycling abroad. Off cycling in Romania in a couple of weeks.

[airnimal]

The van is a Dia32 built from my own kit that I produced approx 10years ago. I don't have any left. I let A.B.S have the master and Adrain Swain made one batch but I am not sure if they are still available. The Dia 16 is also from my own kit that I made a couple of years ago. I still have a few left minus the roofs.

Yes the 0-4-2 is for dock tank that ran on Cromford warf in the 20's. Not sure if they ran there before that but who can prove that they didn't.

And yes the Airnimal name is my tourning bike that I use when cycling abroad. Off cycling in Romania in a couple of weeks.image.jpegimage.jpeg

[airnimal]

I hope to start and build a small layout next year based on Ladmanlow or Cromford wharf. Both these locations appeal as small shunting layouts. I live in a 70's house that are not noted for there large rooms for us 7mm modellers.

 

The other pair of driving wheels are for a second chopper tank.

[Argos]

It's been a while since my last post.

 

The flu and family visits have kept me away from the workbench and layout so progress has been slow.

 

That said I've managed to finish the build of the D17 6 wheeled brake van:-

 

 

It is definitely not my best build and was a bit of a battle so not that enjoyable, I still need to attack some of the gaps with filler.

In fact the best thing on it are Quarryscape's 3D printed axleboxes.

 

These really are exquisite.

My previous experience of 3D printing was coach roof supplied with a kit that needs a lot of remedial work to render it acceptable.

These axle boxes are superb out of the box, certainly better than any brass casting.

 

I've also made some progress with the layout, but nothing worth posting yet. I'll update later in the week.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

Completing the brake van gave me the incentive to get my finger out and finish the 910 tank.

 

Whilst not quite complete (I am awaiting a couple of hand wheels, vacuum lever and second whistle) it is virtually there now.

The chassis has already been dis-assembled and sprayed:-

 

 

 

 

Most of the past week has been spent adding detail to the cab.

My original intention was not to bother and just rely on the rather crude castings provided with the kit.

The interior is quite visible though, so a bit of research and some of Hobbyhorse Development's excellent casting made a difference.

 

Of course it would have been much easier to fit these prior to assembly........... but where's the fun in that?

Cutting back the white metal castings and overlaying the brass on a virtually finished model was nerve racking but I think the end result is worth it.

The back of the cab just needs a couple of hand wheels between the gauges and the right side need a vacuum lever and pipe, then off to the paintshop!

 

 

 

With the 910 tank virtually complete I can start on the Coal Tank.

The chassis parts are all cut out, reamed, rivets punched, tabs filed and awaiting assembly.

 

 

So out with the soldering iron tonight!

[Argos]

So battle has commenced on the chassis.

 

Actually, barring a numptie mistake when I handed one of the coupling rods wrongly  and had to disassemble the whole thing, it all went together smoothly.

 

I feel this is thanks in no small part to the Poppy's Woodtech cradle I was using:-

 

 

This is the first time I've used this device.

I was a bit skeptical that being wood it would not hold the chassis in line well enough, especially as it was me who glued it together!

 

I needn't have feared, once freed from the cradle and the wheels installed all six rolled sweetly and in constant contact with the ground.

 

The rods just needed the barest of easing to allow the chassis to roll nicely.

 

 

Mounting the radial truck and detailing will be next, I'll leave the brakes off for the minute as this will ease dropping the wheels out while fitting and fettling the motor.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

I thought I'd post up my intentions for the Coal Tank build:-

 

The Coal Tanks appeared in the Buxton area quite quickly after the first batch was built in 1881, with Longsight receiving a substantial allocation.

Although built to handle freight traffic they quickly proved useful on passenger turns, taking over from the 2-4-0 Chopper tanks which were starting struggle with the increased load over the heavily graded Buxton- Manchester line.

The appearance of the three compound tanks at Buxton later in the 1880's returned the coal tanks back to freight workings.

 

Although there are many references to the coal tanks working to Buxton, and they appear to have done so right through to grouping, I have only ever seen a handful of photos.

This makes life slightly awkward, as in 1894, the year modeled, the coal tanks were in a variety of states:-

• Sloping smokebox door or vertical door
• With and without vacuum brakes
• Freight black or lined passenger livery

Unfortunately there doesn't appear to have been any correlation between these states.

Engines appear in fully lined passenger livery but no vacuum equipment, so couldn't work passenger trains (the LNWR fully converted to vacuum brakes passenger trains in 1892).

Equally the addition of vacuum brakes didn't always coincide with the application of lined livery.

 

To compound matters, around this time the tool boxes on the rear bunker were turned round and overhung the bunker sides slightly on some engines.

I believe this was done to enable the crews to access the boxes more easily whilst standing on the bunker.

They were finally moved forward and doors cut in the rear cab sheet to enable safe access from the cab around a decade later.

 

So, to build an accurate model a photo reference is important.

I decided my ideal would be an unlined, non-vacuumed brakes engine with a vertical smokebox. 

Part of this is pragmatic, the kit is provided with vertical smokebox and an unlined livery is easier to re-produce and partly to add variety to the loco fleet.

I also wanted to recreate a work-a-day run-of-the-mill freight engine.

 

 

The photo above comes from the J.W Sutherland collection.

It is a well known picture and is included in various books including Talbot's LNWR locomotives and the Bahamas Locomotive Society's Bashers, Mourners & Gadgets.

The later book give some extensive detail about the photo and engine.

Talbot's book gives an 1892 date for the photo, the Bahamas's book gives 1898 so right in the time period required. A later photo taken around 1900 shows 252 in lined livery, still without vacuum brakes (she received these in 1904).

 

The picture above is taken at Whaley bridge when the engine was allocated to Longsight but sheded here to provide banking assistance for the climb up to Bibbington's summit.

 

I am drawn to this engine for several reason:-

 

Firstly she fits the requirement perfectly, and appears to have been at Longsight for a long period. The 1900 photograph mentioned above was taken at Chapel-en-le-Frith.

 

Second is the very workday appearance of the engine, showing that not all pre-grouping engines were kept in absolute pristine condition! The grime will contrast nicely with the more polished passenger engines.

 

The third reason is a human one. The driver and fireman shown are very like several commercial available white metal figure. So I hope to also model Driver Tommy Dugmore and Fireman William Oldfield.

 

William Oldfield started his career at the Lanmanlow shed on the C&HP on the Crewe Goods engines. These engines had a mechanical water pump, so to fill the boiler the rails were greased and the engine buffered up to another which had its the brakes applied. The wheels were then set in motion. This worked the pump and filled the boiler........what could go wrong?

 

One night while filling the boiler the engines shifted pinning Tommy against the shed door. Due to the injuries sustained Tommy found firing increasingly hard and, later in the 1890s, was given the post of foreman cleaner at the Buxton depot, a post he held until retirement.

 

I like the link back through the history of the Buxton area, both human and operationally.

The Crewe Goods engines were still in use in 1894 and were by that stage truly archaic.

 

The link is also represented in the photo as I believe the Ladmanlow shed was dismantled after the CH&P was connected to the Ashbourne line and moved to Whaley Bridge after the later burnt down.

 

So 252 it is then!

Edited July 23, 2016 by Argos

[Penlan]

The one photo missing from Bashers, Mourners and Gadgets is an aerial view of the top of the side tanks.
I've posted it somewhere before on this Forum, but here we are again...
I wish I could find the photographer's name, I'm sure I have it somewhere, but..
An extensive Google Images search did not bring forth this photo.

 

Edited July 23, 2016 by Penlan

[Argos]

Thanks for re-posting that picture Penlan.

 

It will be a very useful photo during the build.

[Argos]

I've now completed the chassis and have it all cleaned up ready for the paint shop.

 

The weights were added to the wheels with filler as the etches provided were proving too much of a faff to file to shape.

I also opened up the hole above the crank pin. For some reason Slaters provide this blind.

A few minutes with a drill soon had the hole milled out.

 

 

 

The first part of the body are cut and filed ready for assembly, although the carpet monster has eaten the coal hatch surround.

This is quite impressive given the size of it but a concerted search has yet to turn it up.......

Edited July 24, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

Whilst researching for the coal tank build I found the link below which is video sweep of the preserved coal tank cab.

I safely stored the link so I could refer to it whist detailing the cab interior, being careful, of course, not to include items that wouldn't be present on no 252 in 1894.

Whilst detailing the cab back plate today I decided to check whether the coal hatch door handle should be vertical or horizontal (I've always assumed horizontal).

 

Guess where the fireman's jacket is hung...........

 

http://www.getlinkyoutube.com/watch?v=x2dDfsk9IPI

[Penlan]

If you mean the door in the cab back to the bunker.....

These copies are from book prints, not photo's, thus clarity is not good, but, down I think is the answer.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Penlan

[Argos]

Thanks Penlan,

 

Typically I've just soldered the handle on horizontally...........

[Argos]

For a while now I have been giving some thought about control of the layout.

 

I have already reached the decision that the signalling and points will be controlled as if by a Signal Box/Ground Frame or lever and separate from the loco control.

The actual loco control is the area for debate.

 

I currently run a NCE Powercab which will be fine for the terminus at Taddington, but once the line extends out will need a bit more oomph, so a 5amp booster is needed.

 

However, I've also been toying with the idea of remote control.

 

I like the idea of being free to roam, following a train from fiddle yard to terminus as it runs through the layout. 

The total run when all is finished will be about 60ft, not extreme but you cannot be stood in one place for this, equally moving location and plunging in repeatedly feels like it would be a faff.

I know this can be done with DCC, but wireless systems add another layer of cost to an already expensive system.

I also like the idea of being free from having to keep the rails clean, doing a lot of wiring, not having to arrange pick-ups on locos and not having shiny silver wheel rims on locos. 

 

With this in mind I spent the morning reading the Radio Control forum, I won't say pleasant morning as a couple of the topics descended into arguments that had me seeking the OO fine-scale debate for a bit of peace and serenity.....

 

It would seem I have now mentioned three topics that seem to unleash the fervor of the railway modelling fundamentalists, DCC, RC/battery control and OO finescale. 

Perhaps I should be expecting a visit by an RMweb SWOT team........

 

Anyway, I've now placed an order for some Deltang equipment, the price looks very reasonable and there are some users around who seem to be happy with the system.

 

The plan is to mount a 350mAh 2S LiPo battery in the loco.

This should delivery around 7.4v which, whilst not spinning the motor at full speed should be enough for a 19th century branch line where the fastest train would not likely exceed 40mph.

I am hoping that this size of battery will also give a decent run time.

Trials will prove all.

I'll post progress.

[Argos]

Thanks Simon,

 

I am aware of most of the options you have listed above.

The switch to RC has been under consideration for a while and I have been following the development of the various systems from a distance.

I am at that point where I need to commit one way or another.

If I chose DCC then I've a lot of wiring to do in the near future as I can tilt the Taddington boards in their current location which will be difficult in their final home. This would mean working from below if i left the wiring until after the move.

I also have buy decoders for the 5'6" tank and coal tank.

 

Although I've been a DCC user for a while I don't really use the functions in O gauge, my N scale diesels have working lights but in O for the 1890s there isn't much need.

I'm also not wholly convinced by DCC sound.

To me it always seems odd that I hear the main sounds of the loco but no background noise or sound of the rolling stock etc. We model everything as accurately as we can, but then just overlay the sound of the engine.

It is, of course, personal preference.

 

For me, I just want to drive the locomotives remotely and save a lot of time wiring, cleaning, not bother about fitting pick ups, not to mention saving some money updating to a 5 amp DCC system in the near future (The 5amp upgrade currently retails around £160 and will no doubt get more expensive unless Stirling rallies).

 

I am also pretty confident that the wireless market will take off and systems will become more prevalent.

I can always upgrade to one of those if the mood takes me.

 

What I like about the Deltang system is:-

• It is relatively inexpensive and flexible.
• A transmitter to control up to 12 locos in kit form is £30
• The higher capacity receivers, pre-wired, are £32. This works out less than the DCC chips I was planning to use, a NCE KAT22 with keep alive (currently £37 from DCC supplies).
• You can use multiple transmitters so can add as you need. 
• It uses RC technology that has been used by Aero and boat modellers for years so there is plenty of advice, support and equipment available if you look outside the rail market.
• I like having a dedicated throttle, driving from a phone doesn't seem right.

The only thing I'll miss from DCC is the ability to configure each decoder to the specifics of the engine and motor.

But, like most things, what works for me is unlikely to be the panacea to everyone else's control needs.

 

I appreciate the effort you've gone to to list to options above, hopefully they will acting as a guide for others contemplating cutting the wires.

Just out of interest what system do you use for your own modelling and how do you find it?

 

P.S. I am planning to keep my Powercab for my 2mm modelling...... unless I can find a way of squeezing a battery, receiver, charging point and switch into a 2mm Killin pug......(and I know it's been done by other in N scale 0-4-0 tanks!)

Edited July 31, 2016 by Argos

[Northroader]

Think I'll go back to clockwork.

[Argos]

That's an Idea, we could use the clockwork mechanism to charge the battery...........

[Argos]

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for posting that link.

 

I've been following Trevor Marshall's blog for a while now.

I suspect I originally found it from a link via good self in a previous post.

A lot of the design on the Taddington branch is driven by Trevor's thoughts on "achievable modelling". It was certainly the catalyst behind me dropping my previous plan for a more mainline station in the form of Leek North Western.

Every time I cram more trackwork in I go back re-read Trevor's blog and rationalise my approach.

If truth be known the terminus at Taddington is larger than I would have liked.

 

I would recommend anyone thinking of a design for a layout to have a read, even if not for the design treatise the modelling is superb and justifies the investment of a few hours.

 

To be honest I enjoy the crafting element of modelling more than the electronics so won't be pursuing sound at this point.

This is not "no never" rather just "not now".

 

I might look to add a sound layer at a later date once construction is more advanced.

I suspect a lot of time and effort (and not say money) would need to be directed at it.

 

I have always thought that fixed speaker points around the room which pick up on the throttle setting and loco selected would provide a better sound (bigger speakers) rather than having the sound generated within the loco. I am a long way off developing this idea though and have yet to investigate feasibility.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Argos

[runs as required]

I agree. Strip out the subject matter and geographic location (which many would use as an excuse to ignore the blog) and what you get is a terrific story of decisions, techniques, ideas and inspiration on how to build a really high class layout.

I was just about to enthusiastically click the Agree tick about "a terrific story of decisions, techniques, ideas and inspiration on how to build a really high class layout"

when I remembered  "the subject matter and geographic location" was how I'd first been seduced by Argos's upland settings.

As teenagers my best friend and I had frequently rode the Ashbourne train to/from our 'potholing' expeditions - until he got access to an ancient tamden.

 

dh

[Argos]

It's not all just rumination about remote control, I've also been getting on with the body for the coal tank.

 

Thankfully the rear bunker door part has reappeared in the spares box!

The body has gone together nicely so far, the only part that needed any adjustment was a slight shortening of the tank insides, everything else has fitted true.

This makes assembly a pleasure.

 

 

 

I've left the bunker and tanks off at the moment so I can work out how best to fit the battery pack when it arrives.

From the size I've ordered it might just fit in the rear bunker, it will be a tight squeeze though.

If this works I'll route the cabling through the tank connectors between the back and front tanks.

 

I've also taken delivery of the RC controller kit and a couple of receiver chips.

I've currently ordered the largest capacity ones, which I suspect, will be slightly OTT.

That said I don't envisage a problem fitting them in.

 

 

The large plastic plug is to match the battery connector, it is a bit bulky and always be removed for a more compact connector.

 

The batteries and charger should arrive later in the week ready for a play at the weekend.

 

[Argos]

Hi Simon,

 

I'm not sure yet, I plan to just have a play and see what works.

 

If worst comes to worst I'll mount the chip under the cab roof with the antenna running out onto the roof (but Isolated from it).

This will leave a line across the roof, but I'm happy to live with that.

[ChrisN]

I know nothing about RC but could you use a handrail for an aerial, or do they have to be tuned to the wavelength of the signal?