The Taddington branch of the LNWR

[Argos]

Chris,

 

That is an excellent idea, I will give that a go for the next batch of setts (around the crane base).

 

I had intended to start to paint the setts, then I realised that I need to complete the walls and buildings around or wise I would be covering the finished painted setts with clay dust from the caving of the stonework on these items. Not all of them will be removable from the layout.

 

I have converted the card mock ups into foam board actuals, the gate is balsa wood scored with a screw driver to represent the planking. I still need to add the personnel door and door furniture. 

 

I've increased the height of the wall from the mock up as it was a little low, it now represents an 8' wall which is a more appropriate height.

 

It feels like it is starting to take shape.

 

 

 

 

In other news, I've been informed my 2mm coal tank etches are winging their way to me.

I've also just found a box with some un-built 3mm scale items, including a half built coal tank kit.

I might be building coal tanks in three scales!

Mind you that would mean the 3mm one would need a layout.............   

Edited April 17, 2016 by Argos

[Edwardian]

A very satisfying composition. Look forward to seeing the buildings come to life.

[Argos]

I've not progressed much the past few weeks due to other commitments, however this did give time to think (always dangerous).

 

The original plan was to finish Three Shire Heads and then build the Taddington branch.

The intent was to try out ideas on Three Shires to refine ready for the Taddington layout.

Actually, I was rather pleased with the way Three Shires was turning out and the thought of scrapping it to develop something similar seemed a waste of effort.

 

So the bullet was bitten, The day was seized and Three Shire Heads has become Taddington.

 

The board has been turned round so the Quarry branch is now at the back.

I was contemplating sloping the ground up behind to the backscene, but actually I quite like the look of the ground falling away, I've not seen this on a model before, but it looks quite natural.

 

The board has also been widen by 9" to accommodate the station.

The platform will not be modelled full width and a station building may or may not appear.

I currently thinking of modelling the station building in low relief with the inside of the station open for viewing through......

It would give another perspective but might look a bit twee...

 

The photos below should give a feel for the alterations.

The backscene is just a few spare bits of hardboard at present to shield off the green pealing fireplace in the garage and not a permanent fixture.

 

 

It looks a bit scruffy at present but then it has been a couple of steps back, for hopefully, forward progress!

 

 

The boards will sit up against the window behind in their final position but I still have to bit of work to enable them to sit in there.

I also need to build the next station board to enable it all to fit snugly.

 

Looks like I've some track to build!

Edited May 2, 2016 by Argos

[Edwardian]

Your layout has track; looks like progress to me!

[runs as required]

My, oh my!

I see you are taking Coachman on at his own game!

Everytime we visit your thread you are into radically reconstructing an enviably plausable scheme that had been well on its way to realisation. I do like the 'handed project, and relieved to find the wonderful cobbled floorscape has coped with 're-visioning'.

Like Edwardian, I am very much looking forward to seeing the low relief limestone buildings that surround the railway yard massing up against the backdrop boards.

 

dh

[Argos]

Thank you gentlemen,

 

Hopefully the comparison to Coachman is only passing...... the only thing I've removed is a backscene!

That said I've also converted an operable layout into a static one!

The siding in at the front will have to be relaid to give a better alignment into the pointwork on the station loop (next board).

It will also shift across to allow space to unload wagons, this will become the general siding for unloading coal etc.

 

The trackwork for this board has been generated in Templot, I'm debating whether to build insitu or in pieces off the layout.

 

 

 

Completing the buildings will offer a respite from the track building so will progress.

 

 

[ChrisN]

I am all for (other people) having a trial layout but if it is working why not incorporate it into the final project.  It is certainly a good idea and will save time in the long run.

 

I like the idea of seeing inside the station, because a lot of people do not bother with the inside

[Argos]

Thanks Chris,

 

To be honest I nicked the idea of BCN Pete.

He is modelling a station with a train shed (Thurso I think) and you look into the train shed via the station entrance.

 

I liked the viewpoint it gave so I am tempted to try something similar.

 

The only draw back is the boards are now quite wide (31" ) and will be mounted quite high (track level at Taddington will be about 52.5") which will make it a stretch to reach the back for uncoupling.

Being at the front I am worried the station building would get leaned on in the process.....

 

I'll mock something up once the boards are in position.

[Northroader]

I think it always helps to have a wide board, more than you planned, push on. "Taddington" comes up on my 'content' and I thought what's this? Now I see, a rose by any other name and all that...

Edited May 3, 2016 by Northroader

[Argos]

Thanks Northroader,

 

The wider board does seem to give the goods yard room to breath.

Hopefully once the front siding is relaid by the run round loop this will be amplified.

 

With the momentum of a new project behind me I decided to try and build the new track insitu.

As an experiment I used photomount spray to stick down the Templot plan.

This worked better than expected as the glue takes a couple of minutes to set which gives enough time to accurately position the plan and smooth out any wrinkles.

It worked so well I used it stick down the sleepers.

This seemed to work well and if the state of my fingers is anything to go by they should be well stuck down!

 

so all the sleepers down:-

 

 

Rather than use the Templot standard sleeper spacing for the plain track I've used a template for a LNWR 30' track panel I drew up with pencil and paper a few years ago. The difference is noticeable. The 30' panels were superseded a few years after the layout is set by the standard 60' panel.

 

[martin_wynne]

Rather than use the Templot standard sleeper spacing for the plain track I've used a template for a LNWR 30' track panel I drew up with pencil and paper a few years ago.

 

Hi,

 

There isn't a standard sleeper spacing in Templot. You can set it to whatever you want. There is a typical 30ft setting in the list of pre-sets, or you can create a custom setting to match your LNWR information.

 

The list of pre-sets is at real > plain track options > rail lengths and sleeper spacings... menu item:

 

 

Instructions on creating a custom setting here: http://templot.com/martweb/pdf_files/gwr_track_panels.pdf

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Argos]

Thanks Martin,

 

I half guessed there would be.

The LNWR standard 30' panels only had 10 sleepers per panel (increased to 11 on sharp bends) so I would need to create a custom setting.

 

To be honest having a ready stock of printed out templates is just as easy for positioning plain track sleepers with Templot producing the alignment.

I realise this is probably sacrilege but I find it more time efficient.

 

I'll probably experiment a bit more when it comes to the curved sections.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

I don't know what the opposite of a Golden Spike is but the first rail is down.....

 

[Caley Jim]

I don't know what the opposite of a Golden Spike is but the first rail is down.....

A plastic chair?  

 

Jim

[Argos]

It's been a while since my last post, the sun and the garden providing a welcome distraction, work a less welcome one.

 

Progress has slowly continued and all the plain track is down for the Station board at Taddington.

The first point is almost complete as well (my first 0-MF one) just needing check rails, although the test wagon runs through fine with out them.

It still needs slight attention with a file on the crossing nose in one direction but other than that it's ready for operation.

All the track need fake joints and fish-plates adding along with electrical sectioning and wiring up.

 

 

 

A bit more progress through the week and I'll be in a position to attack the approach board.

 

I've still not finalised the track plan yet, I've a couple of ideas but will wait until the board is built to help visualise the completed look.

[Edwardian]

 

I've still not finalised the track plan yet, I've a couple of ideas but will wait until the board is built to help visualise the completed look.

Know the feeling.

 

Excellent looking track

[Argos]

Thanks Edwardian,

 

As ever there are bits still to improve, but that is the joy of learning!

Being able to build your own track does enable a more prototypical look, particularly for the pre-grouping period.

To be honest once you get over the initial trepidation it is quite easy as long as you are methodical. The component parts are relatively inexpensive, so if you balls it up, all you've really lost is time.

 

The pointwork still needs a bit more work to LNWRise it, I might try an interlocking sleepered point on the approach board

[Argos]

Given the wet weather outside and the cold temperature down in the garage, the afternoon has been spent on the sofa.
 
Some progress has been made though! I've been playing around with templot to generate the templates for the Taddington Station approach trackwork.

The plan below has the approach spliced the station plan.

 

The top siding need to tie into some trackwork that wasn't generated in templot so it has taken a bit of playing around the get the alignment vaguely right. It's still a bit off  but close enough to tie in when the trackwork is laid.
 
I just need to build the baseboard now, something for the bank holiday.
 
I've been playing around with Sig Scribe, for those who don't know it's a free to download programme (from http://modratec.com/ )that helps generate a signal, connect levels and generate the interlocking. This can then be upload and a kit purchased to enable an interlocking frame to be built.

 

 

Whilst building the interlocking frame is a way off it helps with the planning and the signalling development.

I've also planned out Chelmorton and Flagg signal frames and layouts.

The current plan is build the layout and operate it for a while to ensure I am happy as changing the frame once built I suspect will be quite hard!

 

 

[Penlan]

Just wondering about the spare (white) levers, as there's 5, all at one end, is there not a possibility one or more might be contained within the 'working' levers somewhere? 

[Argos]

Hi Penlan,

 

There is a slight problem in that the Modratec frames come in bundles of six, so you can have 6,12, 18, 24 ......etc. levers.

 

The LNWR built their frames in bundles of five so for any box there is always going to be spares if trying to replicate the number of levers unless you get a box with 30 or 60 levers.

So for Taddington the station would need a 15 lever frame.

The intent was to leave the three excess levers un-built and two unused.

 

This does seem a bit of a waste of money though.

 

I've been re-work the signalling this morning as there were several items bugging me as not being right.

So a morning with a cafetiere of coffee, the Sig Scribe programme open and Richard Foster's excellent LNWR Signalling book has resulted in a redesign and the need for only 12 levers.

 

This makes the lever frame kit less expensive.

It also gives a "C" size 15 lever  frame box (Type 4 in the time period), so quite a small box.

This is appropriate for a back water, but the frame being a bit big for an open frame on the platform also justifies the box.

 

The changes to the design are as follows:-

• Bracket Distance signals reduce to a single fixed distance. The LNWR removed Bracket distance signals for goods and slow lines in the 1880s. Also by the time period modelled a move to fixed distance for the approach to termini was adopted. 2 levers saved!
• The exist to the goods yard reduced to a ground signal, this is more likely to fit and it is unlikely the parsimonious LNWR would have fitted a full size signal, this is consistent with other goods yard exits I've found.
• The Shunt Signal on the platform Starter has been removed and the platform starter is now an advance starter with the starter now located past the goods yard entrance. The actual signal will be mounted on the wrong side using the bracket signal  post for the station approach. Again consistent with the LNWR's shallow pockets.
• Finally I've added a ground signal protecting the exit from the loop, still not sure about this but it seems appropriate.

 

One item I am unsure about is whether the bracket signal for the goods yard entrance would have a ring on the face or not. These were applied to signals indicating goods and slow lines but I'm not too sure about goods yard entrances.

 

Hopefully I've got the signalling correct now. I want to be able to shunt the yard whilst a passenger train arrives at the station. Also have a goods trian depart following the arrival of a passenger train.

 

Not that this will happen often, but allowing for it has the potential to make operations more interesting.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

Hi Simon,

 

For the track plan shown on the schematic it certainly would, however that point provides access to the yard and interchange siding.

 

 

The tandem point on the let will be accessed via the left road but all the point work from there on is operated by a lever next to the point.

 

If set for the right hand road I think there is insufficient space to get a train length to clear the headshunt points prior to the buffers.

Especially if there are wagons in the siding

The left hand road will have a longer run before meeting any standing wagons , so I've presumed on that basis I've assumed point 11 would be controlled from the box.

 

This might be overkill though.

Once built I'll measure everything out and check.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

Just in case anyone thinks this weekend's modelling has consisted of sitting on the sofa playing with software, I have managed to get the crossovers complete on the station board.

 

The track is now complete apart from the detailing (electrical gaping and cosmetic fishplates).

 

 

I did have a brief panic when I tried to connect up a tortoise point motor, only find it merely wobbled the point blades rather than moving them.

A quick check through the RMweb forum showed this to be a common problem in O Gauge rectified by some thicker wire to transmit the movement so a roll of 20SWG has been duly ordered.

 

So I'm now on with my least favourite part of track building, glueing on the fishplates.

 

 

They do make a difference though.

As the photo shows it's important to get your chairs the right way round at track joints! there's not a lot of room to spare.

 

In case you are wondering about the bovine and equine witnesses I was checking the feasibility of including a cattle and horse dock on the siding off the loop.

I needed enough space behind to allow a horse and cart to pass, as luck (planning?  ) would have it there is.

I am sure the good citizens of Taddington will be more than happy to share their station environs with cattle and their by-products! 

 

There is precedence for this at a few stations in real life, I presume a lot of livestock transport was moved by the passenger service so having the animal docks close to the platforms makes sense.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

In between enjoying the sun I've been attacking the first extension board for Taddington.

 

Just to make life difficult for myself the boards are not in the final location and I've decide to use a long beam to form a structural member for both boards.

I want to keep the boards separate though to make it easier to move them into the final location.

I probably should wait, but prior to placing the boards in their final position I need to do some work to the garage walls and roof.

Having the boards in a temporary location at least lets me progress the trackwork, electrics and scenery.

 

With the board half constructed I tried out the loop for length.

 

 

Please forgive the junk piled up, I can never figure out how people keep their workspace so pristine!

 

The 5 wagons and a brake van represent the maximum length train. This equates to 32 inches, with an 0-6-0 tender loco this give a overall length of 45 inches.

 

The train fits the loop although a bit on the tight side, I'll have to mark the clearance points in some way.

 

 

The template is an early working copy, the latest one should be a better match for the sidings!

 

I've also realised a mistake in my signalling and lever diagram

The LNWR differed from usual practice and had cross-overs worked by two levers rather than one.

I've seen a couple of explanations, but this needs to be incorporated if I am to represent the LNWR's working practice.

Another two levers will need adding to the frame.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Argos

[beast66606]

Hi Penlan,

 

There is a slight problem in that the Modratec frames come in bundles of six, so you can have 6,12, 18, 24 ......etc. levers.

 

The LNWR built their frames in bundles of five so for any box there is always going to be spares if trying to replicate the number of levers unless you get a box with 30 or 60 levers.

So for Taddington the station would need a 15 lever frame.

The intent was to leave the three excess levers un-built and two unused.

 

This does seem a bit of a waste of money though.

 

I've been re-work the signalling this morning as there were several items bugging me as not being right.

So a morning with a cafetiere of coffee, the Sig Scribe programme open and Richard Foster's excellent LNWR Signalling book has resulted in a redesign and the need for only 12 levers.

 

This makes the lever frame kit less expensive.

It also gives a "C" size 15 lever  frame box (Type 4 in the time period), so quite a small box.

This is appropriate for a back water, but the frame being a bit big for an open frame on the platform also justifies the box.

 

The changes to the design are as follows:-

• Bracket Distance signals reduce to a single fixed distance. The LNWR removed Bracket distance signals for goods and slow lines in the 1880s. Also by the time period modelled a move to fixed distance for the approach to termini was adopted. 2 levers saved!
• The exist to the goods yard reduced to a ground signal, this is more likely to fit and it is unlikely the parsimonious LNWR would have fitted a full size signal, this is consistent with other goods yard exits I've found.
• The Shunt Signal on the platform Starter has been removed and the platform starter is now an advance starter with the starter now located past the goods yard entrance. The actual signal will be mounted on the wrong side using the bracket signal  post for the station approach. Again consistent with the LNWR's shallow pockets.
• Finally I've added a ground signal protecting the exit from the loop, still not sure about this but it seems appropriate.

Taddington Signalling V2.png

 

One item I am unsure about is whether the bracket signal for the goods yard entrance would have a ring on the face or not. These were applied to signals indicating goods and slow lines but I'm not too sure about goods yard entrances.

 

Hopefully I've got the signalling correct now. I want to be able to shunt the yard whilst a passenger train arrives at the station. Also have a goods trian depart following the arrival of a passenger train.

 

Not that this will happen often, but allowing for it has the potential to make operations more interesting.

 

Distance = distant.

Fixed distants were very common on the approach to termini, single line termini even more so however it was not universal, Birkenhead Woodside was a double track terminus and had a working distant on the approach right up to close in the 1960s.

 

Signal 3 is the wrong side of points 10 - they would be used to provide trap protection for the main line. As has been mentioned points 11 would be worked by hand and not the cabin.

Generally the LNWR grouped signals together and then the points would be in the middle, so the approach signals would be low numbered, then any shunts - on balance I reckon you need one for access to the goods yard, this might be a ground signal mounted at the base of the home- then the points, then the shunts reading the other way and then the main departure signals - with maybe a space and/or a space thrown in if there was a projected need for more signalling.

 

Points 7 would probably be worked off a local ground frame, released from the cabin, having them as they are would require a facing point lock on them (in reality they would more than likely be a trailing rather than a facing crossover)

 

 

(PS - The LNWR did not only build their frames in multiples of 5, they were just as likely to be 12 or 16 depending on the size of the box required)

[beast66606]

I've also realised a mistake in my signalling and lever diagram

The LNWR differed from usual practice and had cross-overs worked by two levers rather than one.

I've seen a couple of explanations, but this needs to be incorporated if I am to represent the LNWR's working practice.

Another two levers will need adding to the frame.

 

Not always - it probably depended how far from the cabin the points were.