The Taddington branch of the LNWR

[Edwardian]

I read the stats: it ain't that many.

Well I always do.  Don't always understand them, mind you ...

[Edwardian]

The stats, or the posts?

 

The posts, specifically the discussion about remote control.

 

I have so much to learn .... [glum face]

[Edwardian]

Argos was, I think, referring to my blog, but don't be glum: learning is fun.

 

And when it comes to remote control, I know that my ideas are possible (the guy behind the Sprog says so, but it will take too much time away from other things for him to do it, although he likes the idea), but I have a lot to learn if I am going to get a prototype working, which will essential be a transceiver-######-voltage regulator-######-small booster to plug into a DCC decoder, all powered from a battery, with the output from the command station being also via a transceiver.

 

By having the command station, you can control which decoders (engines and accessories, although I am not personally interested in the latter) and which controllers have access to the system: no hi-jacking brother people at exhibitions. On top of this, any registered controller can connect with any registered decoder, and consisting to create engines running in multiple is as easy (!) as current protocols, as other than no longer using rails for power and command signals, nothing else has changed. These features are generally not possible or are at least difficult with direct radio control and blue tooth control systems, at least at the moment, as their proponents are applying technology to a system, rather than using technology to improve a system. (The difference is perhaps more clearly expressed by comparing, "Why don't I use my knowledge of BT/RC to create a new way to control trains?" with, "How can I control trains wirelessly using other technologies?") Not a large difference, but more than enough to make some ideas work better than others.

 

Edit: C-U-M is a Latin loanword, meaning "with", as well as something else. Hence the hash marks.

(Anyone who knows the truth behind the "Male Chicken of the North" on another forum some years ago can chuckle at my cumuppance!)

 

One thing I did understand; the word excised by the Automatic Prude.  Pity the folk of Chorlton-########-Hardy.

[Argos]

Back at Taddington I've been on with putting some of the track down:-

 

 

With the rails down and the adjacent siding laid the curve into the warehouse area doesn't look too bad.

It's certainly a lot better than I feared.

I'm not overly happy with the adjacent siding though as I've misaligned the sleepers slightly.

I may just leave them and bury them in ballast, a detail typical of 18th century goods yards.

 

Progress will slow for a bit as I'm back at work tomorrow.

The weekend will tied up with a trip to Telford for the O Gauge Guildex.

I just hope my tax rebate comes though in time to give me some pennies to spend........

 

I have also spent some more time planning.

In my head I was starting to cram more and more in. Flagg Station, Flagg Junction and Chelmorton Station.

All do-able but not creating an open feel I was looking for.

 

I rather like the plain running Trevor Marshall has achieved with his S Scale layout.

This creates a sense of space and journey (this has been posted before but always worth watching again):-

 

 

So I've now drawn up two options.

The first is just one station, midway between Flagg and Chelmorton, serving both villages.

The junction is just beyond the station providing a route over the LNWR to Buxton, and a short chord owned by the NSR giving access to Ashboune via the LNWR.

 

 

The station layout is an adaptation of Hartington so is appropriate and prototypical.

I've reduced the sidings by one and there was also a cross over further down the line so the goods headshunt formed a loop.

The crossover would take up too much space though so has been omitted.

 

This gives two main stations with a realistic feel with a long run between (circa 18 feet, or around 30 seconds at a scale 20mph).

Hopefully enough of a gap to give the feel of a journey.

 

The second plan includes a simple junction and a simplified station layout for Chelmorton. I have assumed that Flagg station is further down the NSR Chord and offscene.

It also creates a separate fiddle yard for the NSR trains, although there is an anomaly in that the NSR should depart on the inside of the curve.

I'll live with that!

 

 

Although this gives two scenes they are separated. This will hopefully retain the journey feel but will break up the scene slightly.

The short spur by the junction is for coal for the signal box (and adjacent railway cottages) and water tankers.

A feature of the area was the use of old 4 wheeled tenders to provide water supplies at remote locations.

The limestone plateau around Taddington/Chelmorton is fairly plain. No rivers, drystone walls, grass pasture fields with the odd tree and very few buildings.

I want to capture this scene but if too much space is given over to it I fear it will look a but bland and uninteresting.

 

Some pondering time ahead.......

Edited August 30, 2016 by Argos

[Penlan]

18th century?

I wouldn't worry about the misaligned sleepers: not everything was perfect in the Victorian era!

Let alone during the 1700's..... The Hanoverians era.

[Penlan]

Woh is me........

[Edwardian]

Woh is me........

 

Take it easy and just suck on a Marlborough.

 

Queen Anne did, apparently ...

[Penlan]

Take it easy and just suck on a Marlborough.

 

Queen Anne did, apparently ...

Which is why she had bad teeth, apparently.  The Duke was familiar with STD's

[BG John]

Which is why she had bad teeth, apparently.  The Duke was familiar with STD's

I didn't realise they even had telephones in those days, let alone anything as advanced as Subscriber Trunk Dialling.

[Argos]

I don't know, you turn your back for a day or so......

 

I had a great day out at Guildex yesterday, well worth a trip.

 

I was hoping to pick up a Special DX kit from Gladiator, but as the kit isn't ready just left a deposit. Dave indicated it should be out at the back end of the year. 

So I had spend left which is always a dangerous thing, I was being good just picking up parts to finish of various projects when I spotted this on one of the 2nd hand stalls:-

 

 

I've always liked these engines, the curved tank giving a pleasing variation from the usual linear lines of the other LNWR engines.

 

 

I've even bid for a few kits on Ebay, but they always seem to go for silly money.

This one wasn't cheap but on opening the box to check its integrity I found wheels, motor, gearbox, number plates, couplings inside so was in fact a bit of a steal. The only issue was the lack of any instructions. Purchase was duly made!

 

The special tanks were surprising numerous and very long lived (the majority passed into LMS ownership being replaced by the standard 3F tanks, 5 survived into BR days lasting until the late 50's). The first batch of 20 was built by Ramsbottom in 1874  just before his departure. Webb altered the design slightly and added another 240 to their numbers. so with 260 members they were nearly as numerous as the coal tanks and no doubt just as ubiquitous.

The problems is, being relatively low rent engines, scurrying around sidings etc. they are not as well photographed or recorded as you might expect for such a numerous class. Also I can't find reference to them being in Buxton.

 

There is a nice photo of one in Locomotives Illustrated 158 in the 1880s on a passenger train at Heaton Chapel so were certainly in the area. If they appeared at Buxton I'm sure they would have been ideal engines for some of the short trip workings out to Ladmanlow, Hindlow and of course Taddington. In 1894 very few appeared to be vacuum fitted so would have been relegated to freight only work. 

 

By 1894 most were renumbered in the 3000 series on the duplicate list, although some were later reinstated to capital stock and then moved back to the duplicated list again (bloody accountants!), in fact different engines carried the same duplicate number at different times in their existence!.

 

Unless I can find evidence of a specific presence in Buxton I am going to model locomotive number 3235, which is the duplicate number given to the locomotive in the Heaton Chapel photo, it gained this number in 1893. She'll be finished without vacuum brakes in unlined black with an open cab (most enclosed cabs were not fitted until 1912.)

 

The model has a brass chassis with a resin body so I'm hoping will go together well and should be a relatively quick build (in time for the arrival of the Special DX?). The only issue for me is the boiler comes in two resin castings, which will be great to house the battery, but these parts are intended to be glued together in the kit so I'll need to figure out a way to make them separate without damaging the finish.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

Apart from blowing my money on an engine kit, I also bought a few bits to develop Taddington some more.

 

First up was a kit for a pair of ground signals, the first has been assembled and is shown located at Taddington protecting the Goods Yard Exit onto the mainline:-

 

 

Obviously it still needs painting and finally mounting, but it feels like a milestone getting the first signal in place.

It will be operable but not lit.

 

I also picked up a three level MSE signal frame for a fiver.

only two of the levers work (the solder had failed on the third) and it had obviously been assembled by some with limited ability.

Nothing was cleaned up (green fur everywhere) and the solder had been left blobby, also no attempt had been made to tidy the brass edges, file off tabs etc.

 

 

I has started the clean up when I took this.

For a fiver I thought it worth a punt to operate the Platform release crossover at Taddington.

This would have been controlled from a ground frame on the platform so fits with the prototypical operation I am looking for.

With three levers I can also have a facing point lock on the passenger line, probably a bit OTT.

All I have to now is work out how to use it to lock the adjacent point lever.

 

After an hour or so's work the frame was tidied up. Still some work to do but it's looking  a lot better and all three levers work.

 

 

I'll use this to activate some Blue Point Turnout controllers under the board.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

I've not posted anything for a few weeks as modelling time has been limited.

 

Still, softly, softly, catchee monkey......with the odd hour snatched here and there the track is almost complete on the Taddington boards.

Just the platform entrance point to complete.... which means I need to get on with building the next base board.

This will house the yard shunting neck, the goods yard entrance point and, ultimately the Taddington's signal box.

Unfortunately the wall behind still needs some remedial work so the board will need to be de-mountable for the minute.

 

Anyway some photos of progress, some cosmetics are still needed, fishplates and dummy track joints etc.

 

 

 

[SimonME46]

Looks good. Making me think about my use of peco streamline..and lack of fishplates and cosmetic joints.

[Argos]

Thanks Simon,

 

Building track is surprisingly therapeutic, as long as you are not in hurry.

The biggest hassle in 0 gauge is filing the vees and switch blades, but that can be speeded up with a grinding disc in a mini drill.

It's also not that hard, if you make a mistake it is seldom beyond salvage, at worst you will have to bin a few components.

 

also I'm too tight to buy Peco now........

[SimonME46]

I enjoyed making my C&L points, but the plain track was all peco. That and the option of doing ballast while the sleepers are down before adding the track..too late now though probably.

[Argos]

Hi Simon,

Apologies, I didn't realise I was preaching to the converted!

 

For Pre-grouping LNWR I need 9 foot sleepers, so Peco plain track is not appropriate.

I have been tempted by the new Marcway track, but by the time I've cut the webbing between the sleepers, re-positioned them to create standard 30' panels and cut to the required size (with associated wastage) I may as well have made my my own.

 

Building the final point is underway but this morning the postie brought me a reminder I should be on with building the coal tank  :-

 

[Argos]

Not a lot of modelling this week either.

 

Partly due to a flood through the garage care of a blocked drain outside.

No harm was done, but a river of water flowing in and straight out the door has left the floor a bit damp.

 

I have turned my thinking  temporarily to the operation.

The previous method of allocating a wagon to a spot from a role of a die (see post 103) developed for Three Shire Heads wont work as there too many wagon spots, especially when the yard at Chelmorton is added.

 

The first experiment will be with a Waybill system, as used by a lot of our American brethren.

I have been a bit wary of this approach for a smallish layout as the cards rotate to give 4 options (i.e 2x in and 2x out) which could feel a bit repetitive.

Time will tell....

 

Commercially produced waybills are available from various source, mostly (all?) based on American prototypes. I'd prefer a something a little closer to the home prototype.

Nosing around the Web and looking through my bookcase turned up a couple of LNWR examples.

Strangely for the LNWR they all appeared different, although containing similar information.

I'm guessing the different districts sourced their own from the printers.

 

An example from "The North Western at Work" was selected as it was dated May 1894, so band on the time frame.

I've generated the form in Excel to ease the task of populating it:-

 

 

The fonts look a bit wild west but are actually pretty close to the form reproduced in the book.

 

This now begs a few questions.

Presumably incoming and outgoing LNWR wagons would have this label but what of other railway companies and Private Owner wagons?

I would assume that incoming wagons would have their home companies label and leave with an LNWR one?

I'm guessing incoming Private Owner wagons would have colliery labels?

If so a bit more work is required to source and reproduce labels form the companies represented by the wagon stock.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Argos

[Poggy1165]

I'm pretty sure 'foreign' company wagons would arrive with their own labels, unless the label, for some obscure reason, needed to be replaced en route. I've a feeling at the back of my mind they could be reversed, but I could be quite wrong on that.

 

Collieries often had their own wagon labels - I've seen examples, though it's not been something I've made a great study of, so I can't quote a source.

 

You know, just for a moment, I thought you planned to reduce these to 7mm scale and attach them to the wagons!

[Jamie Douglas]

Hi Argos

 

I am sure you will work out your waybill system just fine but just to let you know that wargamers have many types of dice 4,6,8,10 12 and 20 spots if you feel like just modifying your original idea. I believe I even have a couple with 36 spots. There are even some kinds made of clear acrylic with another dice inside to save double rolling.

 

Best wishes

Jamie

[Penlan]

I'm pretty sure 'foreign' company wagons would arrive with their own labels, unless the label, for some obscure reason, needed to be replaced en route. I've a feeling at the back of my mind they could be reversed, but I could be quite wrong on that.

Collieries often had their own wagon labels - I've seen examples, though it's not been something I've made a great study of, so I can't quote a source.

Back in the days relevant to this layout, Colliery Wagons usually had 'Return Empty to Colliery', or similar, painted on the side planking.

 

Interesting though re. Railway Co. owned Wagons & Vans, all the wagon labels I've seen would be carried by the Company Van / Wagon to it's destination as there is often routing, sheets, ropes etc., information contained on it, and if the 'carriage' has been paid, or not.    I haven't seen any labels with printing on the reverse side, yet.

 

As my old RCH compendium is out on loan, I can't check it, but I'm fairly certain Rly. Co. Vans / Wagons were returned to the owners nearest depot, station etc., otherwise we are into demurage schemes.

I thought I might find something relevant in the LNWR's Accountancy Handbook (1917), but I got bogged down in minuiteeeeee.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Penlan

[Caley Jim]

I would assume that incoming wagons would have their home companies label and leave with an LNWR one?

Back in the 1960's, while a member of a group of fellow students on a brake van trip to Brechin (then still open for freight), we found some old CR wagon labels in a desk in the trans-ship shed.  One of them was pre-printed 'Live Stock/ Brechin to Bellgrove NBR'.  At first we couldn't understand why there should be pre-printed labels to a 'foreign' station until we realised that the Glasgow abattoir was, at that time, adjacent to Bellgrove station!  Clearly there was regular traffic from Brechin of cattle for slaughter.  I no longer have the label as I passed it, along with some others we found, to the Caledonian Railway Association archive.

 

Jim

[Penlan]

.....  At first we couldn't understand why there should be pre-printed labels to a 'foreign' station until we realised that the Glasgow abattoir was, at that time, adjacent to Bellgrove station!  Clearly there was regular traffic from Brechin of cattle for slaughter.  

And you will find many others, I have labels 'From Wainfleet' (G.N.) 'To Bradford (Corporation Slaughterhouses)' Mid.

... and somewhere, many NB pre-printed to various locations in England and marked 'Potatoes'.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Penlan

[Argos]

Interesting, I hadn't considered that the labels might be double sided.

I had always assumed that they would be collected at destination.

 

Clearly some more investigation is required!

 

Thanks for the comments so far.

[Poggy1165]

There were 'exchange points' for foreign wagons. On the GC for example GWR wagons had to be sent to Aylesbury, Banbury, Wrexham or (less obviously) Ashburys. In the latter case they would be trip worked to Ordsall Lane, I believe, where the GW had running powers. I think in theory you sent them to the nearest or most convenient exchange point, as speed was of the essence. 

 

For companies not listed (generally the minor roads) the instruction was that they must go back by exactly the same route as they had been sent. 

 

I may be completely wrong about double-sided labels. Sometimes these faint bells at the back of my head are not connected to reality.

 

None of this stuff really impacts on models, but it's just nice to know how stuff worked. Of course if one had one of those giant model systems that used to be popular, I suppose you could send empty foreign wagons in the 'correct' direction. But I don't think many people have that sort of set-up nowadays. 

[Crewe North]

Re: your Special Tank kit.........there's an article in MRJ 39 on building the kit.....you may find it of interest . Should still be able to get a copy of the mag via eBay if you haven't got it already

 

John