The Taddington branch of the LNWR

[ChrisN]

Being a physicist I really should have known this, my only excuse is that I have spent all my working life with unsealed radioactive sources.  There is obviously no tuning on the receiver then?  What wavelength are we looking at?

 

Are the batteries rechargeable or will they not produce enough current, and what would their life be?

[Argos]

Hi Chris,
 
Since you ask about batteries I thought I'd post my recent delivery:-
 

as Simon has said this is a Lithium Polymer battery, known as a LiPo.
The one shown is a 350mAh and is 40x20x12, not high capacity or large in size.

It is a "2s" so will generate 7.4v which should be enough to drive the loco at scale speed.

If not voltage rectifiers are available for under £2 to up the voltage.
I've posed it against the Coal Tank's rear bunker and an 1833 mashima motor and gear box to give a sense of scale.
 
I think I could probably go up to an 800mAh in the boiler without too much of a squeeze.
 
I have seen quoted that the maximum current draw for the motors fitted to the Ixion Fowler and Hudswell Clarke as 350mA, so the battery would power the loco for an hour at full chat.

On the Battery Powered/Remote Control forum Davetheroad has done some on endurance test on LiPos fitted to 4mm scale locos.
Using a smaller 70mAh battery his locos ran for 30 - 45 mins at a scale 60mph.
 
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64616-battery-poweredradio-controlled-locos/page-18

 
LiPos also have the advantage of not developing memories like NiCADs so can left partial charged and topped up without the need to power cycle.
 
The downside they have a habit of bursting into flames if not charged correctly (and slowly)!
Their life expectancy is not huge I seen figures as low as 50 cycles and as high as 500.
I guess time will tell.
 
To put this into perspective though if I operate the layout twice a week and use this loco for half an hour each session at around full power (unlikely) then the 350mAh battery will last a year worst case (assuming a similar current draw on the Mashima as the Ixion motor). In reality I suspect it will be nearer two years.
 
The battery cost around £5 from various model shops and Ebay.
Balanced chargers can be found for under £10.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Argos

[ChrisN]

As you are a physicist, then given a frequency of 2.4GHz, can you not work out the wavelength?

 

Batteries are lithium-iron polymers, fully rechargeable. There is a lot more in the radio control special interest section.

 

Simon,

Thank you.  Now I know the frequency, yes I can.

 

(This is where I make a fool of myself and say 124.9 mm)

Edited August 4, 2016 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris,

 

Since you ask about batteries I thought I'd post my recent delivery:-

 

Battery and motor.jpg

as Simon has said this is a Lithium Polymer battery, known as a LiPo.

The one shown is a 350mAh and is 40x20x12, not high capacity or large in size.

It is a "2s" so will generate 7.4v which should be enough to drive the loco at scale speed.

If not voltage rectifiers are available for under £2 to up the voltage.

I've posed it against the Coal Tank's rear bunker and an 1833 mashima motor and gear box to give a sense of scale.

 

I think I could probably go up to an 800mAh in the boiler without too much of a squeeze.

 

I have seen quoted that the maximum current draw for the motors fitted to the Ixion Fowler and Hudswell Clarke as 350mA, so the battery would power the loco for an hour at full chat.

 

On the Battery Powered/Remote Control forum Davetheroad has done some on endurance test on LiPos fitted to 4mm scale locos.

Using a smaller 70mAh battery his locos ran for 30 - 45 mins at a scale 60mph.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64616-battery-poweredradio-controlled-locos/page-18

 

LiPos also have the advantage of not developing memories like NiCADs so can left partial charged and topped up without the need to power cycle.

 

The downside they have a habit of bursting into flames if not charged correctly (and slowly)!

Their life expectancy is not huge I seen figures as low as 50 cycles and as high as 500.

I guess time will tell.

 

To put this into perspective though if I operate the layout twice a week and use this loco for half an hour each session at around full power (unlikely) then the 350mAh battery will last a year worst case (assuming a similar current draw on the Mashima as the Ixion motor). In reality I suspect it will be nearer two years.

 

The battery cost around £5 from various model shops and Ebay.

Balanced chargers can be found for under £10.

 

Thank you, that is very interesting.  I have not gone down the RC road even though I have vaguely known about t through the 009 Society but it is worth thinking about even though I would need to change all my locos, or perhaps just make the new ones RC.  I will follow how you get on with interest.

[Argos]

Just in case anyone is following the Battery/RC discussion, I've asked some questions over on the RC forum which has generated some discussion and additional information/advice:-
 
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64616-battery-poweredradio-controlled-locos/page-19
 
Post 474 onward.

[Argos]

Well this weekends modelling has been a bit out of the ordinary.

I've been assembling a DT Receivers (Deltang) TX 22 transmitter kit.

 

Being confronted by a plastic box, a pile of wire, chips, resistors and chips was a bit daunting at first but the instruction take you through the build in steps  .

I wasn't that convinced all was going to work, so it was no surprise when I switched the unit to find I had power but couldn't bind to the receiver.

 

A panicky email was sent off to DT receivers  and I waded through the internet to find pictures of a build.

whilst comparing the internet pictures to my build I realized I had reversed the power connection on the transmitter chip...... 

 

once the wires were reversed:-

 

 

         

 

All seems to work fine, the inertia control giving a nice smooth start and stop.

 

With that done I thought I'd take advantage of the warm weather and get some spraying done.

Here are the wheels for the Coal tank and the 5'6" Tank in the spray booth.

 

 

It is nice to know I don't have to scrap the paint off the rims to get track power.

 

[runs as required]

All most interesting about R/C, but the last thing I ought to be reading, I'm the very worst kind of Mr Toad...poop...poop

Some 00LS club people have been adapting their Hornby Live Steam locos to R/C.

dh

[Argos]

Apologies for blinding you technology Run as required.

 

Like most things once you plough through the jargon, apply common sense and have a play it all seems to work.

 

I've now got a battery charger and have been playing, I've just connected the 4' Shunter built earlier in the topic.

It was never a good runner on DCC even with a keep-alive.

I always suspected this was down to dodgy pick-ups as once moving it was ok, but only at speed.

I could never get it to start without a shove.

I was concerned this was down to my gear meshing abilities.

 

With the receiver fitted, pickups and DCC chip removed, the motor and battery connected (body off at the moment) it ran very sweetly.

 

All I need to do now id find a battery to fit in the body......

[Argos]

Indeed Simon!
 
I knew the challenge was coming!
 
As observed elsewhere on the RC forum the currently available LiPo batteries seem to be either thin with a large area (to fit in the floor plan of a car?) or long and rectangular in section.
Presumably these are the requirement of the RC car, boat and plane market.
 
Having played around with my locos the ideal shape for model railway applications would be more cubic (to fit in bunkers of tank engines) or cylindrical (to fit in the boiler tube).
 
The selection is exacerbated by most of the web sites selling these batteries being searchable by capacity (mAh), peak discharge ( C ), and sometimes, if you are lucky, weight.
It is really only the capacity that is any use for us.
 
Still, I think I found solutions to the four locos I have to currently fit out.
 
The 5'6" tank and coal tank can fit a 860mAh battery in the boiler tube without infringing on the motor.
 
http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/237259/
 
This should be good for around 3hrs constant usage at full pelt (assuming the Mashima motor is not too current thirsty).
 
The 4' shunter can fit a 300mAh battery
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221951914488?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
This will again fit in the boiler which is resin on the model.
I've already opened this out and cut a slot to fit the DCC keep alive in. 
The battery should fit nicely.
Although much smaller capacity the motor fitted is smaller and the loco will running for short length so although overall continuous running time will be shorter, probably around an hour, in real terms this would be good for a prolonged operating session.
 
The most problematic is the Ixion Hudswell Clarke.
There really is not a lot of spare space!
Still, I think I can fit a 200mAh battery in the tank behind the chimney.
 
http://www.wheelspinmodels.co.uk/i/116262/

 

Again the load is light and I'm only intending the loco to be used for shunting and short trips so a continuous run time of around 45 minutes should still last for a couple of hours operating session.

 

I should add I have no connection with the above suppliers.

I have used Wheelspin models and Hobbies and received  a prompt service but that is as far as the recommendation goes!

I should also make clear I have yet to actually buy the batteries and try to fit them in the 4' shunter and Hudswell Clarke!

Edited August 10, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks, I had not come across those batteries.

They do indeed look interesting, however will need rectifying up to a higher voltage as they are only 3.7v.

There is then the issue of installing into a cradle and fixing in a charging circuit.....

All do-able and I might investigate in the future but for the minute I'll stick with the LiPos.

Besides I've already invested in some LiPos and If I let myself get too distracted I'l never get anything done!

 

The Hudswell Clarke would need a lot of hacking to fit an 18650 mind.

I'll post photos when I get around to the conversion, you'll see what I mean!

[Argos]

Hi Simon,

 

Strictly speaking (as I understand it anyway) 18650 batteries are Li-ion not LiPo.

The only difference between the two (again as I understand it) is that the LiPos are basically Li-ions without a rigid case.

 

So in real terms all difference, so we're quibbling over semantics.....

 

I was aware of the step up regulators and as they are less than a couple of quid I did contemplate these in conjunction with the LiPos.

They were going to be my back up plan if a LiPo 2s battery (7.4v) didn't give the speed range required.

However I don't think I need to worry on that score, albeit I might fit a lower ratio gear box in future.

Alternately I have ordered a couple of cheap brushless 6v motors off ebay to try in place of the ubiquitous Mashima, especially as production of the Mashima is being stopped.

 

Another approach I considered was to use a 1s battery with the step up regulator.

This proved a bit of a waste of time, as essentially the battery was around half the size of the 2S for any given output but you need twice out to match the run time of a 2S (obvious when you think about it), still it might be a solution if space is really tight.

 

I'm not going too have much modelling time over the weekend but hope to have the 5' 6" tank up and running and ready for range trials with the receiver in different locations soon.

As ever I'll post updates.

 

If you are reading this and it is all getting a bit RC orientated, I apologize.

I have some time off soon and I am targeting getting the Taddington boards moved to their permanent position which will allow work on the layout to recommence.

It won't be all batteries and workbench!

[Argos]

Actually that picture flatters to deceive.

 

The saddle tank is where most of the space is.

This is formed of two pieces, an upper and a lower. David has not got them separated in the photo:-

 

 

As you can see there is a central spindle which takes the screw that holds the top of the tank on and the back of the tank has a raised section to accommodate the motor.

There is a convenient shelf in there though to mount a receiver (or decoder chip).

So in reality there is only just over the front third of the tank available to mount the battery. 

I am pretty sure I can still squeeze the 200mAh battery from the previous post in here though.

 

There are some up sides, there is a speaker mount in the base of the chassis which has pre-configured wire runs down to it from the motor compartment.

This will be ideal to mount the charging point.

 

To do anything else would require major butchery of a well put together model.

 

There is no criticism of Ixion meant here, I am very pleased with the model, it is a superb runner and I accept I am installing a drive mechanism never foreseen by the designer, indeed it would be unrealistic for the designer to allow for RC control given the potential market size. 

 

Back dating this model on similar lines to David is still on the to do list, I am not planning on going as far as him though!

His re-build (it far to extensive to call alterations) is quite superb and recommended reading for anyone backdating the Hudswell Clarke.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

One of my weekend pleasures is to get up before the rest of the family, feed our menagerie of animals and settle down in a comfy seat with a cafetiere of freshly brewed coffee and catch up on various railway related blogs.
 
Some times this a quick read, sometimes the links on the blogs take you off in unexpected directions.
 
One such chain of links took me here:-
 
http://thphotos.com/#/172947/
 
The photos are all real images altered to look like models and are very effective (I've already posted the link in the "When real railways look like models" topic).
It did get me thinking though, if I could identify what in the photos created the model like image then reversing this would create a more realistic looking model.
 
Pondering a while I came to following conclusions (feel free to add more.....)

• Colour - the colour is very uniform, for example the grass is green but a constant green, there is no blend of colours, even around the edge of worn patches. There is no variety of colour shades.
• Tone and contrast - The images are very bright and stark, more muted colours would subdue the "model" effect.
• Cleanliness - The is a limited amount of dirt and grime. This impacts on the observation on colour as there is no dulling down of the colours around the areas affected by dirt.
• Crispness  - All borders are neatly demarcated, there is no blend between also there is a preponderance of straight lines, very little organic curving forms.
• Texture - Whilst this is present in some pictures a lot of the image look slightly flat surfaced, again this overlaps with the observation around cleanless, a bit of dirt would give depth to the texture.
• Lighting - All the images are very starkly lit (again acting to remove the texture?) even with shadows the lighting feels false. The light is very white and cold not warm. One of the layout topics I aways enjoy on RMweb is Waverley West's layout topics - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2978-waverley-west-princes-st-gardens-and-haymarket-mpd/page-111 - Whilst the modelling is superb, I feel it is the lighting that lifts the photos posted to be among the most constantly realistic of any I've seen.

I have yet to decide how all this will be incorporated into the modelling techniques used on Taddington, but hopefully the observation will help steer toward a more real scene.

[Edwardian]

Excellent find.  It would be great to work out how to light models that convincingly. 

 

I have taken to posting pictures of other people's superb work on the Pre-Grouping Layouts topic.  As these pictures are taken at exhibitions, they tend to be on the dark side and I have to lighten them a bit.  By accident I clicked on an option that made an image black and white.  Then, for some reason, I had the idea of dialling up the saturation.  This restored colour, but in a sort of bleached way that resembled colour prints from the Seventies.  I have not tried this technique on models; I don't model anything set in the '70s, but the closeness of the effect to my childhood holiday shots of the Dart Valley was striking! 

[Argos]

Hi Edwardian,

 

I am hoping to get the Taddington section into it's final position this week.

This will then open the door to the lighting question as the garage is currently lit from two centrally mounted fluorescent strips which don't shed a great amount of light into the perimeter corners. They look like office surplus units as they have diffuser baffles installed.

 

At the moment I have the spray booth set up where the station end will sit and I have to set up some task lighting when spraying to see properly.

 

Current thoughts are to have a series of 12v spots above a I can add more or increase the centers to raise the light intensity and these spots are more directional. Aa strip will be less directional and difficult to control intensity. 

 

It all needs some thought and planning once the boards are moved.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

Hi Simon,

 

I have some LED strips to play with for a small 2mm layout that the build is stalled at the moment whilst I concentrate on Taddington.

 

If I mount the lights on the roof they are a reasonable distance from the layout surface, so I am not sure that LED strips will give enough power to light effectively.

I am also not convinced that LED light gives the right tone, The light always appears very white, stark and flat, the yellow LEDs may temper this somewhat but I need to have a play to convince myself.

 

I use LEDs for night time cycling and have notice a tendency for the light to flatten the surroundings giving poor depth perception.

This is particularly true when cycling off road.

[Argos]

Hi Simon

 

Funnily enough I am just wading through a search on RMweb of layout lightning topics and seen that suggestion a couple of times.

 

One of the things that puts me off strips is the lack of direction of the light, I am going to be modelling late winter/early spring so would like that low, weak sun effect.

The problem with directional lighting on a layout 18' x 10' is that I am always going to get overlaps.

 

I am hoping to mitigate this by lighting the separate scenes directionally (currently 4 - Taddington, Flagg and Chelmorton station and Flagg Junction)  with the plain track linking the scenes lit more broadly.

 

Thus where trains will be stood the shadows take effect, where they are running in open scenery the effect is less pronounced.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Argos

[Argos]

.....place on a baking sheet and place in a pre-heated oven at gas mark 7 for 10 minutes...........

 

 

 

Do I qualify for the Great British Bake Off?

 

I am about to start some work that will create a lot of dust in the garage so wanted to get some spray work done on the 910 tank.

I had hoped to get the first black paint coat on prior to the dust however things conspire against me.

 

It being summer (supposedly) I took a rather cavalier attitude to spraying, simply cleaning the model in my usual way, leaving to dry overnight and the spraying with primer.

 

This was done Friday evening, and left to dry.

In the light of Saturday morning things didn't look so great, there were patches which had bubbled in odd locations on the body and areas where the paint felt soft. I took off the bad bits with a scraper (again the paint peeled off suspiciously easily) and scratch brush and filled a couple of gaps that had become apparent.

 

Taking no chances this time I resorted to winter spraying methods. The spray can was heated in a jug of hot water and the model placed on a baking tray in the oven ( on warm, I've used low melt solder for some bits so anything over 70 degrees C would see bits falling off, gas mark 7 would have been a disaster!).

 

The model was sprayed and when touch dry returned to the oven for 10 minutes to fully dry.

 

All seems to well with no blistering and an even looking coat this time.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Argos

[Penlan]

At the swag doooo this year, ‘Tresparrett Wharf’ by Maurice Hopper, had LED strip lighting set into some 'U' (inverted) channel which seemed to work well, though it was only about 30cm above rail level.  The channel was aluminium, probably 18mm sq. overall.

 

We use LED strip a lot now for the Village Christmas Lights http://www.mouseholelights.org.uk/ , and as the technology has advanced so quickly in the last 5 years, it's a bit difficult to recommend any particular type.  One of the main advances has been in the availability of colour, and here I'm thinking from the stark blue/white over to the softer, creamy colours, now available.  Last Christmas we had about 1Km of LED strip in use, all at 24v.

 

 I have been trying the brighter LED strips for illuminating a 20m long Nativity scene, but it's a bit difficult to replicate the dark of winter in mid-summer...

We also now use a lot of LED bulbs and they have changed a lot recently, especially the price (down).

This has resulted in us having around a surplus 10,000 BC 15w filament bulbs in stock..... 

The Village Lights are one of the main LED suppliers UK testing sites,

We can have a wide range of weather 'way down west'.   

Edited August 24, 2016 by Penlan

[Argos]

It's been an uppey downey kind of week on Taddington.

 

I've got the Taddington boards moved to their new location but having made the move I was singularly unimpressed with the appearance in the new location.

This got to the point I was seriously considering ripping the whole lot up and going back to the drawing board.

Fortunately (I think) sense prevailed and I left the thoughts to fester while seeking solace and inspiration in a large gin and tonic.

 

The following morning I add some more bracing which made the layout feel more secure. I also moved a cupboard that was stood close to the far end of the layout (Where the red spirit level is in the photo below).

This opened up the aspect of the far end considerably and improved the feel no end.

Freshly enthused sleepers have been going down for the new track.

 

 

The view above shows the final location, the need for some decent lighting and the amount of remedial work still to do to the walls around the layout.

The Heath Robinson guttering in the window is because I've still cure to leak over the window, in heavy rain with a northerly wind behind I get quite a bit of water coming through. I can't find the source of the leak so have resorted to some internal plumbing to protect the walls until I can get it sorted.

The reason for the bare plaster in the window reveal is because it is permanently damp and will remain so until I cure the leak.

 

 

On a more positive note the backscene is in place. I just need to disguise the joints and corners.

The current plan is to paint some thin card and paste this into the corners and over the joints.

The current paint is a bit too blue but I will down this down with come white and grey to get to a more winter sky.

 

One of the areas of dissatisfaction is the run into the exchange siding and warehouse.

Because I'm using the original track form Three Shire Heads the alignment is a bit odd:-

 

 

The track curves out and back in give an odd look to the approach with unnecessary and un-prototypical looking curves.

However once past the curves I am happy with view and don't want to waste the modelling done to date:-

 

 

I guess I'll get the rails down and decide then.

Adding the rails for the siding to the right might add some sense to the curve.

The view above will be difficult once the continuation boards are in place so maybe I'm am worrying too much.

 

As ever I now have too many projects on the go - finishing the build of the Coal Tank, finishing the painting of the 910 tank, converting the locos to remote control and building elements of the layout. I intend to focus on the layout for the next week or so and hopefully get this looking a bit more respectable and get further trackwork completed. That and sort the lighting.......

 

 

 

 

 

[Argos]

The problem is now I can't even correct it......

[Argos]

Whilst contemplating light fittings yesterday my wife looked over my shoulder and pointed out we had an old light fitting from my son's bedroom when he was a toddler.

 

After drilling a hole to accept a cable from the side, I mounted this above the layout, this may not be a permanent fitting but does give me chance to play.

I've included photos below as an attempt to illustrate the differences, this is marked in actuality but interestingly seems to get lost through the camera lens.

The shadow in front of the objects (from the adjacent window) is also more noticeable than reality.

 

 

The unit had two 50w halogen so was the stating point:-

 

 

This gave quite a warm glow, more late summer evening than late winter/early spring.

 

I then added an LED bulb, this had a 120 degree spread and is warm white:-

 

 

This looked a bit stark and gave multiple shadows.

I have a dimmer switch mounted on a plug socket left over from an attempt to create a variable temperature controlled soldering iron on the cheap (it worked, but I find it easy to solder white metal using an uncontrolled 15w iron).

Using this I realized the dimmer did not affect the LED bulb (it's a non-dimmer bulb) but lowered the light output of the halogens.

This gave quite a pleasing effect, the output of the halogens can be lowered so they just fill in the peripherals, softening the whiteness of the LED but the main shadow is projected from the LED:-

 

 

This gives quite a nice compromise.

I will try some daylight LEDs in the future and see what difference these make.

 

All in all a successful experiment.

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

Ignoring the shows front and left thrown by the window, I'd say the third shot is a pretty good effect.  Interesting that a mix of bulb types, as opposed to positioning and colour, can enhance the effect.

[Argos]

Hi Edwardian,
 
The real find was being able to throttle the intensity of the halogens whilst keeping the LED constant.
I hadn't even considered this a possibility until I started to play.
 
I might even say it was serendipitous......but then Simon would probably correct me 
 
https://ewjr.org/

Edited August 28, 2016 by Argos

[wagonman]

Good grief.

 

Someone actually read my witterings...

 

 

Beware! Lots of us do...