Cobalt ip digital

[newbryford]

Just bought a few and my DCC system is a Roco Multimaus which has an offset to its point controls by 1 bit - a ESU Switchpilot is always 4 more than its programmed setting and a Lenz LS150 6 more (unless you manually program it) so has anyone experienced programming a digital Cobalt with a Multimaus?

 

I am presuming 198 is 197 on the Multimaus, does the Cobalt lose is centrering immediately  the power is restored or does it wait until being switched after being programmed with its actual address?

 

If it's a "recent" Cobalt, the automatic centring on power up should be disabled. Even though the motor is delivered in the centre position. (The easiest way to centre it later is to command it to move and remove power half way.)

 

The Roco Z21 offset is 4 but can be updated.

https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/an-alert-regarding-roco-z21-accessory-addressing-problems/

 

I don't know if the offset also applies to the Multimaus.

 

Ultimately when addressing a Cobalt Digital IP you are "pairing" it with a command from the DCC station - it's only when you want to use the 197-199 commands or use with another DCC system that there may be an address issue.

 

I originally set my system up to use 1-18 with a Lenz. They now run as 1-18 from a Cobalt Alpha switch and encoder panel. They did not need re-addressing.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[PaulRhB]

You might find it's also 4 out on the Z21 as it's also Roco.

They now come centred and I think it was as soon as you power them up they moved. I block the blades so it's centred and slide in the rod and fix it in place and if you're slightly out the sliding adjustment is enough to take up the slack.

[Butler Henderson]

Well got one working, not sure what killed the centre off - tried 202 as suggested for the Z21 and then tried 197 as had thought. Still not sure if it had done anything as the point motor stayed motionless so I decided to try programming - put in 6 as suggested for 2 on the Z21 and tried to work it as 2 - dead, tried 6 it worked swinging from side to side without going back to centre. So no offset affecting the actual address.

[Butler Henderson]

Tried another - put the address in first and straight away it lost its self centering as Mick notes above - pity the instructions do not tell you that. Anyway yes the Multimaus is 4 out on these - had to enter 203 to reactivate the self centering (as I had not positioned it in place) and 201 on the one I set up the other night to swap the direction of throw.

[reded23]

I have around 30 Cobalt IP Digital motors and for the most part they work fine....but 2 of them that lose their address about once a week. So annoying as I use Traincontroler software and the first I know about it is when there's a crash. I spoke to DCC Concepts and they just blamed my wiring...but I have changed it 3 times now with the last a direct line from the Lenz unit.

[Anthony566]

I have around 30 Cobalt IP Digital motors and for the most part they work fine....but 2 of them that lose their address about once a week. So annoying as I use Traincontroler software and the first I know about it is when there's a crash. I spoke to DCC Concepts and they just blamed my wiring...but I have changed it 3 times now with the last a direct line from the Lenz unit.

 

Have you tried swapping those point motors with another one from a different area of your layout to see if the issues is point motor related or location ?

[Trip]

Have you tried swapping those point motors with another one from a different area of your layout to see if the issues is point motor related or location ?

 

This seems like a good idea.

 

I'm following this thread because I have an issue with Cobalt IP digital motors losing their addresses occasionally. I recently switched from a DCS50 to a DR5000 command station and the problem become much more frequent. (I've since switched back, for the moment.) Obviously there's nothing a command station should be able to do that would cause the lost address but it's interesting all the same.

[PaulRhB]

Does the DR5000 put out a higher voltage by default? The loss of address happened on mine when there was a short but what actually seems to cause it is the spike as the power comes back on. I seperated the accessory bus and added the filters on the end recommended by dcc concepts and so far it's not affected the areas done like this so I'm working back to the original area. I have included a switch so I can power up the dcc base unit then switch in the bus if the loss of address reoccurs but it doesn't seem necessary so far.

[Trip]

I think it does put out a higher voltage, yes. Can you explain what you mean by 'the filters on the end'? I don't think I've come across that.

[PaulRhB]

Here we go, recommended by their UK boffin

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/bus-suppressorsterminators-2-pack/

Some question their effect but the motor that was prone to losing it hasn't since I added them so it seems to help.

[Nigelcliffe]

Here we go, recommended by their UK boffin

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/bus-suppressorsterminators-2-pack/

Some question their effect but the motor that was prone to losing it hasn't since I added them so it seems to help.

 

The components needed come to under 10p.  A DCC bus snubbers consist of a resistor of around 100-150ohm, rated at 1W to 2W in series with a 0.1uF 50V ceramic capacitor.    To reduce the cost of the resistor, use five 0.25W resistors of approx. 500ohm each in parallel.   

 

I've checked one UK online electronics supplier, resistors are well under 1p each and the capacitor under 2p.  

 

 

 

 

- Nigel

[PaulRhB]

The components needed come to under 10p.  A DCC bus snubbers consist of a resistor of around 100-150ohm, rated at 1W to 2W in series with a 0.1uF 50V ceramic capacitor.    To reduce the cost of the resistor, use five 0.25W resistors of approx. 500ohm each in parallel.   

 

I've checked one UK online electronics supplier, resistors are well under 1p each and the capacitor under 2p.  

 

 

- Nigel

For those not happy with soldering though the pre made option is easy ,

Do you have a simple diagram or picture done that might help people make one, and a link to the parts if you've looked it up.

I get what you mean but wouldn't have known what to buy until you said it.

[Brian]

For those not happy with soldering though the pre made option is easy ,

Do you have a simple diagram or picture done that might help people make one, and a link to the parts if you've looked it up.

I get what you mean but wouldn't have known what to buy until you said it.

My web site shows the two items and their Maplin part numbers if it helps?  http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html#On

Maplin total cost per filter £0.29p.  Of course Maplin are by no means the cheapest, but are convenient as they have High Street stores in many UK areas.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Brian

[Nigelcliffe]

For those not happy with soldering though the pre made option is easy ,

Do you have a simple diagram or picture done that might help people make one, and a link to the parts if you've looked it up.

I get what you mean but wouldn't have known what to buy until you said it.

 

The pre-made version requires two solder joins, from the wires to the track.  The DIY requires three joins in total. 

 

Brian has covered how its made, and shown the links to Maplins (usually an expensive source, but have shops in many large towns, and thus avoid post costs on a cheap item). 

[Trip]

Ok, so my DCC bus doesn't have two ends. A pair of wires comes out of the booster and snake off down one side and two other pairs of wires are joined to the first pair near the booster and go off in different directions. So I count three 'ends' plus one 'end' connected to the booster. Is that right?

 

Would I need to put one of these terminators on each of the three exposed 'ends'? 

[PaulRhB]

Ok, so my DCC bus doesn't have two ends. A pair of wires comes out of the booster and snake off down one side and two other pairs of wires are joined to the first pair near the booster and go off in different directions. So I count three 'ends' plus one 'end' connected to the booster. Is that right?

 

Would I need to put one of these terminators on each of the three exposed 'ends'? 

As I understand it yes, each 'open end' of a bus is the place to put them but not across the 'source end' at the base stn or booster, imagine it as a wheel with the DCC signal fed in at the hub and the DCC bus as a spoke with a filter at the end of each one.

Edited February 6, 2018 by PaulRhB

[WIMorrison]

As I understand it yes, each 'open end' of a bus is the place to put them but not across the 'source end' at the base stn or booster, imagine it as a wheel with the DCC signal fed in at the hub and the DCC bus as a spoke with a filter at the end of each one.

Does it actually make a difference where it is connected across the bus wires? I don’t think that the electrical signal makes note of whether it is at the end or 10’ from the end

[PaulRhB]

No idea I'm just following the diagrams Brian and others have done. I'm fine with electrics but I don't 'do' electronics

[Trip]

Does it actually make a difference where it is connected across the bus wires? I don’t think that the electrical signal makes note of whether it is at the end or 10’ from the end

 

This is sort of why I asked the question. My limited understanding of electronics would suggest that only one is required, at any point between any DC bus wire pair. But all the diagrams suggest it should go at 'the end'. I'm perfectly happy either way I just want to get it right.

[WIMorrison]

I think that the ‘requirement’ to terminate at the end comes from the days of computer buses which used coax cable and they had to be terminated at the ends to quench signal reflection that occurred due to the end of a cable. These were terminated with a special connectors that could only fit on the end of a wire

[Nigelcliffe]

Termination of coaxial network cables (I remember 50ohm coax Ethernet) is to do with transmission line theory.   

 

DCC "suppression circuits" or "snubbers" are nothing to do with transmission lines.   So, termination at the end of a transmission line has nothing to do with it.   They are just noise spike filters, in theory can go anywhere. 

[PaulRhB]

Thanks chaps knew someone would know the 'lectronic bits

[Brian]

They can be fitted along the bus wire(s) but why not just put them at the ends of the wires where a radial or star shaped bus is used?

 

BTW They are NOT Terminators. Just filters. They remove spikes that may occur in the bus pair and can cause decoder malfunction or resetting of some decoders especilly where a short circuit occurs. They also help with poor quality DCC transmitted from some DCC systems.

I don't make them or sell them regardless what some others may suggest in their posts in another topic, so I have absolutely no gain from the information provided other than passing on something that I and many others know that works! Whether its needed or not is up to the individual and their DCC system and wiring

Edited February 7, 2018 by Brian