Sutton's Locomotive Works class 24

[37081LochLong]

Sorry not at the moment. I have D5000 that is waiting to have a SYP added to the front, but I also have to modify the water tank to the smaller one for this version. Unfortunately it is behind in the queue for attention behind a batch of 37's. Originally going to be in blue as D5000, but didn't have the heart to overspray the original paint job.

 

Paul J.

Looking forward to seeing the results when you get around to it

 

37's should always have priority

[jjb1970]

I think most people here have agreed that this model looks very good. If people do not think that the grills are correct then it is legitimate to comment on that and for those who do find the grills do not look right then it is quite an obvious failing of the model and not something you will not normally notice.

 

This is not a cheap model. In the initial part of the thread there was a lot of comment about what a bargain it was however for people who are not existing customers of RE the price will be £175 + £8 shipping I think. Or £183, without a DCC chip. DCC chipped it seems it will end up near enough £200. You can buy a DCC fitted Bachmann Class 24 for less than £100, call it £100 inc. postage, or half the price of the RE model. Now to be clear I’m not claiming that the Bachmann model is better or without faults of its own however I do think it puts the idea that RE are offering a bargain into perspective. Yes, some can get the RE model for a bit less and the Bachmann model is a discount price however for me all that matters is the price I would have to pay. Is the RE model better? Yes, even accounting for the grills. Do I consider it merits a 100% price premium over the Bachmann model? Probably not.

 

On the sourness, I think RE are not blameless here. If you release a letter writing off every other model supplier as being disinterested in quality, over charging and fobbing us all off with junk whilst you are revolutionising models with a wondrous new release then that kind of sets the tone for how your own model is likely to be received by some and certainly means you can’t complain if people are critical about aspects of the model.

Edited December 14, 2015 by jjb1970

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

...maybe it is time to compare the SLW model standards with some of the good European mainland ones and have a look at some of the prices charged over there.

 

Dave

[No Decorum]

I think most people here have agreed that this model looks very good. If people do not think that the grills are correct then it is legitimate to comment on that and for those who do find the grills do not look right then it is quite an obvious failing of the model and not something you will not normally notice.

 

This is not a cheap model. In the initial part of the thread there was a lot of comment about what a bargain it was however for people who are not existing customers of RE the price will be £175 + £8 shipping I think. Or £183, without a DCC chip. DCC chipped it seems it will end up near enough £200. You can buy a DCC fitted Bachmann Class 24 for less than £100, call it £100 inc. postage, or half the price of the RE model. Now to be clear I’m not claiming that the Bachmann model is better or without faults of its own however I do think it puts the idea that RE are offering a bargain into perspective. Yes, some can get the RE model for a bit less and the Bachmann model is a discount price however for me all that matters is the price I would have to pay. Is the RE model better? Yes, even accounting for the grills. Do I consider it merits a 100% price premium over the Bachmann model? Probably not.

 

On the sourness, I think RE are not blameless here. If you release a letter writing off every other model supplier as being disinterested in quality, over charging and fobbing us all off with junk whilst you are revolutionising models with a wondrous new release then that kind of sets the tone for how your own model is likely to be received by some and certainly means you can’t complain if people are critical about aspects of the model.

If it's a bargain you want, Invicta is offering a limited edition Bachmann green D5000 for £69.99 and RDB968007 in RTC lightly weathered blue for the same price, postage free. Delivery is likely to be quick. No connection except as a satisfied customer.

 

Probably you have SLW to thank for the reductions.

[gordon s]

I'm chuckling to myself because I'm reminded of a graffiti sign I saw the other day...

 

"The best things in life are full RRP"......

[Austrag]

I am fortunate to reside a few miles north of the premises and collected my locos. Having them mixed in with the Christmas mail didn't enthrall me one bit. My fleeting visit was timed and very short. They are working their socks off and have at least one new helper onboard. Those who are buying the model will not be disappointed, I can assure you of that.

 

I am about to fit a Hall-effect sensor to one model but it looks so good that I haven't had the heart to undo the screws yet! However, Paul Chetter tells me that if you do fit one, the default sound is the Flange Squeal so all your curves can invoke that sound wherever you wish. 

[Downendian]

My point was that the reinforcing bars are behnd the grill, the toolmaker for the model has put them in front.

It reminds me of looking at an attractive girl who has a spot on her face, ones eye is drawn to the blemish, not to the rest of her face.

 

It is indeed a good model but not perfect!

 

D5018 - Copy.JPG

I've just received my 24081 and absolutely stunning model, to me the number of slats in the rad grille is a non-issue, I can barely make them out with my eyesight, and more than three feet away even those with 20:20 vision I suspect couldn't either. I take Norton961's point re the reinforcing bars - perhaps the etch has been fitted the wrong way round, and maybe a simple remedy?

Miles ahead of the Bachmann model which looks crude in comparison. Will have to save for the sound project now.

Neil

[cctransuk]

True but I've been really looking forward to this loco and i'd rather ensure I get one without people jumping the queue by not following the instructions on their website which is very clear

 

On another note, Has anyone who has already got one started any modifications yet? (weathering? renumbering?)

 

That seems to be a legitimate concern, given the hype that this model has received.

 

Why it is not possible to accept e-mail reservations indicating the model(s) required is beyond me. Reservations could be fulfilled in due course after payment has been requested and received, in strict date / time order so that there can be no suggestion of queue jumping.

 

I realise that SLW is a two person outfit, (just as Cambridge Custom Transfers is my one person outfit), but the rush to buy must surely have been anticipated? Complex retail facilities are not required; simply a basic system that guarantees fairness.

 

The way this is currently set up, the merest suggestion on their web-site that they are ready to sell to the great unwashed, (sorry, new customers), will simply result in a permanently engaged phone line and even more frustration. An announcement here, ASAP, that e-mail reservations are being accepted would be much better IMHO.

 

I have no axe to grind here - just annoyance about the matter has been so badly handled. The elitist "We've got 'em, but you can't yet "! was bound to get people's backs up.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited December 14, 2015 by cctransuk

[tetsudofan]

Collected my D5000 from the local delivery office at 6:40am this morning. Why so early you might say? Well. Royal Mail tried to deliver the model at 8:00am on Saturday but they say I was not at home at that time despite me being propped up in bed enjoying my early morning cup of tea whilst reading the latest copy of "Hornby" magazine.........

 

Another reason for collecting the model so early was that I had a pre-arranged visit this morning from my professional financial advisor (no SWMBO around here   ) who controls my pension fund and what I withdraw from the fund to support my model railway habit. I thought that showing him the SWL D5000 and comparing it with the Bachmann D5000 would support my intention to increase my pension fund withdrawals to cover the cost of this and some of the other goodies to be released in the future. My financial advisor knows nothing about Cl.24s but he had no problem pointing out many differences between the two models. He was impressed!! Think he was happy that my money was not being wasted   .

 

Now that I've got D5000 sitting in front of me I can't really see why there has been so much talk about the big grill mainly by forum members who have not got the actual model in front of them. The problem, I think, has been caused by the blown-up pictures posted on this thread. Looking at the model I've got in front of me and comparing it with the blown-up pictures on here is like comparing chalk and cheese. In my opinion the blown-up pictures on here make the model look ghastly which it certainly is not. The cab windows don't even look as bad as they do here

 

Looking at the grill in question there are a number of horizontal whatnots, three verticals and one diagonal. Getting out a magnifying glass I can see that the vertical whatnots are moulded in front of the diagonal instead of behind it on the prototype ..... but you really need a magnifying glass to see this. Also, depending on which way the light lands on the model decides how visible the vertical whatnots appear. 

 

The chat about pricing is interesting. Last week I got a pre-ordered Rapido FL-9 Electro-Diesel locomotive and, with the pre-order discount from Model Junction, the price came in at £265.50 similar to what I paid for my SLW D5000. This, I think, gives an indication of what you have to pay for models produced to real-world standards and not the dumb-downed standards that mainstream models in the UK are produced to - which the manufacturers perceive is what the UK market is willing to pay for.

 

The interest shown in the SLW model shows that there is a market niche in the UK for this type of model. I don't think the model is being produced as a replacement for the Bachmann model. SLW is introducing a choice in the Cl.24 market. It might encourage Bachmann to "improve" their model but then the price of their model would have to be increased .... and would that go down well with the market.

 

To end I must say that I have no connection with SLW/Rail Exclusive apart from being a purchaser of some of their limited editions. I like what they produce but what does cheese me off is the waffle, waffle sales blurb that emanates from them........and I think their main supporter is overdoing it here. You've got to see the model yourself!!

 

Keith

Edited December 14, 2015 by tetsudofan

[SHMD]

Thanks tetsudofan but you really are not succeeding in putting me off wanting needing desperately needing one of these miniature wonders!

 

Has anyone moaned about "duplication of models" yet in this thread?

I think this release should put an end to that argument once and for all!

 

 

Kev.

 

 

[ardbealach]

Having opened the tin box with my green 24 inside, my initial comment must be on the quality of the protective packaging. I haven't read, in any detail in this thread, remarks on the quality of the packaging; not just the tin itself, but the protective foam, as well as the locomotive being fixed secure in its own perspex plinth and cover.  And I thought Heljan had a good standard of packaging! Even this is on another level for us modellers.

 

As an EM modeller, it is wonderful to have a 5 star EM model straight out of the box that can be put straight on the track - without having a six month wait for a decent set of wheels, and the necessary adjustments to brake blocks etc etc..  And all those brake pipes and connectors are ready and securely fixed in-situ without the need to get out the superglue and mess up the buffer beams.  Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful!

 

Usually my first job is to weather my new locomotive purchase, but I fear this one is going to continue to run in ex-works livery for some time.

 

The downside of all this new standard in 4mm diesels is that many of us will now be putting off our potential 4mm diesel purchases for fear that we will buy one, only to find that our purchase will be the next more superior model to be delivered from Suttons Locomotive Works.  

[Guest Digital]

Details of how to purchase and costs are now on the Suttons Locomotive Workshop website.

 

http://sulzertype2.co.uk/page.php?p=purchase

 

John

[37081LochLong]

Wonder how long it will take to get through? Hope its not as long as it takes to get through to my doctors at opening time

I have all my information ready to hand over And as for them not getting sent out until after Christmas... I'm actually happy about that! I hated the thought of them tackling the christmas post!

[37114]

B*gger - back to back meetings all day on Wednesday, hope they don't sell out by the time I get on the phone....

[Clive Mortimore]

Having opened the tin box with my green 24 inside, my initial comment must be on the quality of the protective packaging. I haven't read, in any detail in this thread, remarks on the quality of the packaging; not just the tin itself, but the protective foam, as well as the locomotive being fixed secure in its own perspex plinth and cover.  And I thought Heljan had a good standard of packaging! Even this is on another level for us modellers.

 

As an EM modeller, it is wonderful to have a 5 star EM model straight out of the box that can be put straight on the track - without having a six month wait for a decent set of wheels, and the necessary adjustments to brake blocks etc etc..  And all those brake pipes and connectors are ready and securely fixed in-situ without the need to get out the superglue and mess up the buffer beams.  Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful!

 

Usually my first job is to weather my new locomotive purchase, but I fear this one is going to continue to run in ex-works livery for some time.

 

The downside of all this new standard in 4mm diesels is that many of us will now be putting off our potential 4mm diesel purchases for fear that we will buy one, only to find that our purchase will be the next more superior model to be delivered from Suttons Locomotive Works.  

Hi,

 

I will be happily running it along side my Hornby class 25 conversions, yes my SLW D5000 is a far better model but the others I modeled myself and am still proud of what I done.

 

 

Trouble is what do I do with the Bachmann models I have, suppose keep running them as I never had a problem with them.

[37081LochLong]

Hi,

 

I will be happily running it along side my Hornby class 25 conversions, yes my SLW D5000 is a far better model but the others I modeled myself and am still proud of what I done.

 

 

Trouble is what do I do with the Bachmann models I have, suppose keep running them as I never had a problem with them.

 

Even though i'm looking forward to getting D5000 & 24081 I will still be keeping my Bachmann models although one will be getting a renumber now. The only thing it's changed for me is that i did plan to get the Bachmann/Invicta D5000 but won't be now. and I have decided to hold off any preorders for the Bachmann 24/1s in the hope of some SLW ones but all my current Bachmann 24's will remain in my fleet because I still like them

[gordon s]

It doesn't bother me, but the pricing appears to either be a mistake or they have had a change of heart re previous customers as the pricing has reduced for new customers.  I suggest you either order quickly or be prepared for a correction on the pricing.

 

Edited December 14, 2015 by gordon s

[37081LochLong]

It doesn't bother me, but the pricing appears to either be a mistake or they have had a change of heart re previous customers as the pricing has reduced for new customers.  I suggest you either order quickly or be prepared for a correction on the pricing.

 

Screen Shot 2015-12-14 at 19.48.09.png

Good spot! Bizarre, I think my brain was pre-programmed to read 175 & 275 because thats what we were told so i never registered the different pricing! Either way i'll be prepared

[Perchpole]

I have no axe to grind here - just annoyance about the matter has been so badly handled. The elitist "We've got 'em, but you can't yet "! was bound to get people's backs up.

 

On what level has this been "badly handled"?!

 

New manufacturer releases previously unannounced locos. Doesn't involve the press or any of the usual media outlets in the release but instead allows the quality of the product to speak for itself. Gives previous loyal customers first dibs and (once their orders are clear) allows everyone else an opportunity to pile in.

 

You think this is badly handled?

[cctransuk]

On what level has this been "badly handled"?!

 

New manufacturer releases previously unannounced locos. Doesn't involve the press or any of the usual media outlets in the release but instead allows the quality of the product to speak for itself. Gives previous loyal customers first dibs and (once their orders are clear) allows everyone else an opportunity to pile in.

 

You think this is badly handled?

 

Yes, I do, for reasons that I've explained above.

 

When you produce something out of the blue, that you clearly believe fills a gap in the market and for which you have consequently 'gone out on a limb', you surely want to carry all of your potential customers with you in a positive marketting experience; (phraseology which I abhor but which, it has to be admitted, covers the case here).

 

You have a body of 'mates' who have been in some way involved in the development of the project and who you would like to supply with your first product as a priority. Nonetheless, you recognise that the project, and future projects, will not be viable without a much wider customer base.

 

You do not want to involve 'middlemen' in your marketting, to keep costs down, and for the same reason you decide not to undertake the normal publicity and advertising campaigns.

 

Now, you can do what SLW did, and let potential customers know that a select band of 'mates' has already got this game-changing model, but add that the rest of the potential customer base will have to keep checking your somewhat reticent web-site until such time as you decided to let them place orders.

 

Or ....... you announce your new model, having asked the select few to keep quiet that they've had first chance at purchasing. You indicate what is available and invite reservations via e-mail or post - not by telephone because you haven't the staffing infrastructure to cope with a constantly ringing phone - you are convinced that this model is the answer to modellers' dreams and will be welcomed with open arms, after all.

 

As time and staffing permits, you contact each person who has made a reservation, IN STRICT DATE / TIME ORDER, and take payment, followed by packing and despatch. You are able to do this at your own pace.

 

If reservations are subsequently rescinded when it comes to payment, you merely pass on to the next reservation.

 

If the supply exceeds demand you can, hand on heart, say that each reservation has been dealt with strictly in order of it being placed.

 

That way, there has been no suggestion that your main future customer base has been treated as second class; there has been no on-line panic about when orders will be accepted, and all of your models have been sold in a equitable and amicable way.

 

As things turn out, I would have placed a reservation on the day that the Type 2 Sulzer was announced, and I would have honoured it; (purely an impulse purchase). Indeed, I attempted to do exactly that via e-mail but was told to await the indefinite release to the general public.

 

As it is, and thanks mainly to Dave, I have had plenty of time to read the less than 100% complimentary comments regarding the grilles and glazing, and have started to wonder whether I really needed a Type 2 Sulzer.

 

Then I read that the, admittedly less than perfect, Bachmann D5000 could be purchased for some £100 less than the SLW model. Should I shell out that more modest sum to satisfy my impulse to buy?

 

Well, I really don't need a Sulzer Type 2 - to buy any would be self-indulgence - so, forget it and get on with some real modelling !

 

Not, I still maintain, the best way to market what you believe to be a step-change in model locomotive production.

 

..... and I will look through the hype in future and decide whether I need the model or not.

 

Perhaps not just one sale lost ...... ?

 

Just my perspective on this episode.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited December 14, 2015 by cctransuk

[RANGERS]

Yes, I do, for reasons that I've explained above.

 

When you produce something out of the blue, that you clearly believe fills a gap in the market and for which you have consequently 'gone out on a limb', you surely want to carry all of your potential customers with you in a positive marketting experience; (phraseology which I abhor but which, it has to be admitted, covers the case here).

 

You have a body of 'mates' who have been in some way involved in the development of the project and who you would like to supply with your first product as a priority. Nonetheless, you recognise that the project, and future projects, will not be viable without a much wider customer base.

 

You do not want to involve 'middlemen' in your marketting, to keep costs down, and for the same reason you decide not to undertake the normal publicity and advertising campaigns.

 

Now, you can do what SLW did, and let potential customers know that a select band of 'mates' has already got this game-changing model, but add that the rest of the potential customer base will have to keep checking your somewhat reticent web-site until such time as you decided to let them place orders.

 

Or ....... you announce your new model, having asked the select few to keep quiet that they've had first chance at purchasing. You indicate what is available and invite reservations via e-mail or post - not by telephone because you haven't the staffing infrastructure to cope with a constantly ringing phone - you are convinced that this model is the answer to modellers' dreams and will be welcomed with open arms, after all.

 

As time and staffing permits, you contact each person who has made a reservation, IN STRICT DATE / TIME ORDER, and take payment, followed by packing and despatch. You are able to do this at your own pace.

 

If reservations are subsequently rescinded when it comes to payment, you merely pass on to the next reservation.

 

If the supply exceeds demand you can, hand on heart, say that each reservation has been dealt with strictly in order of it being placed.

 

That way, there has been no suggestion that your main future customer base has been treated as second class; there has been no on-line panic about when orders will be accepted, and all of your models have been sold in a equitable and amicable way.

 

As things turn out, I would have placed a reservation on the day that the Type 2 Sulzer was announced, and I would have honoured it; (purely an impulse purchase). Indeed, I attempted to do exactly that via e-mail but was told to await the indefinite release to the general public.

 

As it is, and thanks mainly to Dave, I have had plenty of time to read the less than 100% complimentary comments regarding the grilles and glazing, and have started to wonder whether I really needed a Type 2 Sulzer.

 

Then I read that the, admittedly less than perfect, Bachmann D5000 could be purchased for some £100 less than the SLW model. Should I shell out that more modest sum to satisfy my impulse to buy?

 

Well, I really don't need a Sulzer Type 2 - to buy any would be self-indulgence - so, forget it and get on with some real modelling !

 

Not, I still maintain, the best way to market what you believe to be a step-change in model locomotive production.

 

..... and I will look through the hype in future and decide whether I need the model or not.

 

Perhaps not just one sale lost ...... ?

 

Just my perspective on this episode.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I can't say I agree with the sentiments here. If nothing else, SLW have shown that it is possible to research, develop, manufacture and bring to market a top class model without building a level of expectation which is such that nothing, not even this exceptional, game changing model could ever hope to satisfy.

 

If you make the announcement ahead of the release, what do you actually tell customers? This going  to be the best model of a diesel ever produced? OK, so prove it, which they did!

 

What better way than instead of telling folks it's going to be the best model ever made, well so far at any rate, than to actually show them it in the flesh, there and ready to roll. In marketing terms it's satisfied the blueprint down to a tee

 

Attention has been instant

 

Interest is pretty well overwhelming

 

Desire has been raised over a couple of weeks before the model actually goes on sale, assisted by the endorsements of some loyal customers.

 

Action finally kicks into play when it goes on sale just two and a bit weeks after it first saw the light of day.

 

OK, it 'aint cheap and yes you could buy three or four Bachmanns for what I paid, but they'd all still be wrong in my eyes so why would I buy one let alone four? I've no real need for another blue diesel, but I've never bought the Bachmann Derby type 2 because after all the hype and expectation generated over a couple of years prior to its introduction, when it did appear, I thought it was pretty poor by comparison to the Hornby model, of which I've a number. The SLW one could have gone the same way if it had been announced two years ago, how do we know how good it's going to be until we actually see it. Well now we know how good it is and we make our own minds up if we want one (and I decided there was room for just one more blue diesel!)

[Lord Flashheart]

The orange cantrail stripe & OHL plates Network rail requirements for Pickering to Whitby section.At a guess.

D5061 isn't passed for the Whitby running hence no yellow warning panel, fellow NYMR type 2 class 25 D7628 is however, IIRC the orange cantrail stripe was added after it visited a friend's and family of staff open day at Tyne Yard in the early 2000s and despite being repainted since has retained that feature.

 

Rob

[Perchpole]

When you produce something out of the blue, that you clearly believe fills a gap in the market and for which you have consequently 'gone out on a limb', you surely want to carry all of your potential customers with you in a positive marketting experience; (phraseology which I abhor but which, it has to be admitted, covers the case here).

 

John

 

Have you ever thought that perhaps SLW/RE want to do things differently? For years we've all had to twiddle our thumbs as one manufacturer after another promises the earth and then takes an age to deliver it. The hobby is stagnating with anticipation.

 

Then along comes SLW with a new approach. "Hello, we've made this..." Ta-dah!

 

The product speaks for itself. Why would you spend a fortune on advertising and give away free samples when the only recommendation you really need is from the people who open the box?

 

We live in a new age; a largely Internet-driven age. The hobby needs more SLWs. More fresh ideas and less stagnation.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Perchpole

[Perchpole]

SLW have posted a new "Features" page...

 

http://sulzertype2.co.uk/page.php?p=features

[Derekstuart]

Well this thread certainly puts minor things like weapons of mass destruction and is1s into perspective...