3F Jinty's

[Poor Old Bruce]

Presumably you meant Tri-ang. Hornby didn't do a Jocko.

 

Paul

 

They did do a 350hp diesel Jocko (shunting engine).

 

Merry Christmas everyone.

[LMS2968]

Yes, the terminology was extended to what became the 08s, which Hornby made, but Hornby Dublo's 0-6-0T was the Southern R1, unfortunately available in two-rail only. What were they known as down south of the Thames?

[John_Miles]

The need for a banking engine and the associated load limits north of Rowsley was more to do with what would happen if a coupling failed. Thw ruling gradient was 1 in 90 all the way from Rowsley to beyond Peak Forest. If the coupling failure happened close to the engine, the weight of the train might be too much even for a 20 ton brake van to hold, with potentially disastrous consequences. So unbanked trains had to be of a weight which could be restrained by the brake van and I think this was coincidentally defined as the maximum load which could be taken unaided by a 4F. If you are looking for engine types for the line, the ex-LNWR Super Ds were also used although they were not liked. One of the reasons for their unpopularity was that the foootplate was very short so that when the fireman turned to get coal from the tender, his rear was exposed to a hot fire.

[LMS2968]

The Super Ds were intensely disliked by Midland (and L&YR) men: if Frank Webb had ever heard of ergonomics he made certain they never sullied his engines. They were very uncomfortable for both driver and fireman to work, but their main problem over the Peaks was their attrocious brakes. The drivers through their LDC managed to get the Ds' maximum load down to the same as a 4F. The Ds would easily take a far greater weight up the inclines but were no better at stopping at past the summit and on the down grade.

[Alister_G]

To return to the original question, unless you are modelling Rowsley yard itself, I wouldn''t bother with the 3F tank engine as they rarely did any workings on the main line: for the reasons already discussed their braking effort would severely limit what they could haul. They did occasionally run light engine down to Bakewell and Hassop, or up to Matlock, to shunt the yards there but that was about it.

 

Other than 3F and 4F tender locos, the commonest sights were Crabs - a number were shedded at Rowsley, and more at Buxton.

 

EDIT: Contrary to what has been said upthread, 8F's were one of the most commonly seen locos on the line, there are loads of photos of them.

 

In addition, for through trains, Jubilees were a frequent visitor, and were even used to work some of the local trains - Bakewell to Derby early morning passenger was commonly a Jubilee turn - and Johnson 2Ps and Fowler 4Ps (Compounds) were also used for passenger workings.

 

Which bit of the line are you modelling?

 

Al.

Edited December 28, 2015 by acg_mr

[GWR8700]

To return to the original question, unless you are modelling Rowsley yard itself, I wouldn''t bother with the 3F tank engine as they rarely did any workings on the main line: for the reasons already discussed their braking effort would severely limit what they could haul. They did occasionally run light engine down to Bakewell and Hassop, or up to Matlock, to shunt the yards there but that was about it.

 

Other than 3F and 4F tender locos, the commonest sights were Crabs - a number were shedded at Rowsley, and more at Buxton.

 

EDIT: Contrary to what has been said upthread, 8F's were one of the most commonly seen locos on the line, there are loads of photos of them.

 

In addition, for through trains, Jubilees were a frequent visitor, and were even used to work some of the local trains - Bakewell to Derby early morning passenger was commonly a Jubilee turn - and Johnson 2Ps and Fowler 4Ps (Compounds) were also used for passenger workings.

 

Which bit of the line are you modelling?

 

Al.

Thank you for the useful information.  I'm thinking of doing Monsal Head viaduct and station.  I didn't realise there was a specific Bakewell to Derby train.

I've got a 4p and 3F tender loco so I'll have a look out for 2Ps, 8Fs, Jubilee's and a 4F.  A Crab is being released soon too.

[Old Tearaway]

The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway also used 3f "Jinties".

 

"Jinty" was a popular regional girl's name back in Victorian and Edwardian times. However, like the Scottish "Sookie" and a few other old traditional girl's name, it is extremely rare these days.

 

The last time I heard it was on local TV news, a few years ago, when some old lady called "Jinty" something was celebrating her 100th birthday.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Old Tearaway

[Alister_G]

Thank you for the useful information.  I'm thinking of doing Monsal Head viaduct and station.  I didn't realise there was a specific Bakewell to Derby train.

I've got a 4p and 3F tender loco so I'll have a look out for 2Ps, 8Fs, Jubilee's and a 4F.  A Crab is being released soon too.

 

That's quite a challenge scenically, the geography is a bit immense, not to mention the viaduct itself, but it's definitely very modelable, I wish you well with your plans, and I hope you'll start a layout topic so we can follow your progress.

 

There's quite a few layouts of the Peak line on here, two different interpretations of Peak Forest: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97832-peak-dale-wood-station-building-construction-under-way/by Marcus37 and http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105210-reflections-on-peak-forest/ by Fordbank, then there's Tunsley Quarry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2056-great-tunsley-dale-revisited/ by Peter Midwinter, and Wormdale http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61309-wormdale/ by Captain Nick. There's also RBE's "N" gauge model of Millers Dale http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68652-millers-dale-in-the-80s-br-peak-line-in-n/ and a re-imagining of the Derwent Valley http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74006-derwent-lms-in-the-peak/ by Rowsley17D. Oh, and I'm doing Bakewell http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64977-bakewell-peak-district-line-br-ground-signals/

 

There's also a model of the Headstone (Monsal Head) viaduct which AndyP had, but which is not on a current layout: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72054-fiddlers-yard-now-owned-by-peter-bb/?p=1262880

 

All the best mate, don't hesitate to ask if there's anything we can help with.

 

Al.

[GWR8700]

That's quite a challenge scenically, the geography is a bit immense, not to mention the viaduct itself, but it's definitely very modelable, I wish you well with your plans, and I hope you'll start a layout topic so we can follow your progress.

 

There's quite a few layouts of the Peak line on here, two different interpretations of Peak Forest: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97832-peak-dale-wood-station-building-construction-under-way/by Marcus37 and http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105210-reflections-on-peak-forest/ by Fordbank, then there's Tunsley Quarry http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2056-great-tunsley-dale-revisited/ by Peter Midwinter, and Wormdale http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61309-wormdale/ by Captain Nick. There's also RBE's "N" gauge model of Millers Dale http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68652-millers-dale-in-the-80s-br-peak-line-in-n/ and a re-imagining of the Derwent Valley http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74006-derwent-lms-in-the-peak/ by Rowsley17D. Oh, and I'm doing Bakewell http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64977-bakewell-peak-district-line-br-ground-signals/

 

There's also a model of the Headstone (Monsal Head) viaduct which AndyP had, but which is not on a current layout: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72054-fiddlers-yard-now-owned-by-peter-bb/?p=1262880

 

All the best mate, don't hesitate to ask if there's anything we can help with.

 

Al.

Yeah, it's going to end up being a loose interpretation of it because of the difficulties involved but I just really love that part of the Monsal trail and the idea of steam locomotives going up and down it is very exciting.

If I don't do that bit I'll do either Great Longstone (fairly simple) or Rowsley (bit more complex on the track side).  Failing that I'll do a part of the S&D as it allows me to use quite a lot of the same locomotives (except my Compound) and I can throw in a few GWR locomotives too.

Thank you for the information, I should hopefully start on it later this year when space allows me to   I like your Bakewell too

Edited December 30, 2015 by GWR8700

[John_Miles]

 I'm thinking of doing Monsal Head viaduct and station.

 

Gives an excuse for a visit to the Monsal Head Hotel during which I spent many happy hours in the 1970s when closing time was notionally 11pm - in reality when the last person went home. There was a small station at Monsal Dale and scenically it is much better than Great Longstone (another wonderful pub there) which is in a cutting. Stations in cuttings don't make good models because you only get helicopter views. There used to be a training college for women next to Great Longstone station. I'll leave the rest to your imaginations.

[Poor Old Bruce]

I didn't realise there was a specific Bakewell to Derby train.

 

The train was to get workers into Derby where there were factories which, apart from the Loco and Carriage & Wagon Works, included names like International Combustion and Rolls Royce. The train was extended to Spondon for Courtaulds. In the early 1960s, it was often a job for a Caprotti Standard Five.

[Eric Stuart]

Well, this was quite wide-ranging:  Passenger work by Jintys, Swansea Push-Pulls, Condensing and the sadly virtually lost "Route tho' the Peak'.

 

1 - Thanks for the confirmations/info re the Jinty P-P locos and their workings.   Push-Pull is a subject in itself and I hope to have an article published early next year.

 

2 - I recall that, in addition to day-time stopping trains through the Peak, there were two 'commuter' workings into Derby in the am and two back pm on weekdays.  Monsel Dale - thankfully still accessible: both the trail and the hotel!

 

3 - Condensing was as described.  As it reduced haulage capacity, drivers sometimes defied rules to condense.  Earlier 0-6-0Ts on the Kensiington freights had condensing gear, but latterly the Jintys did not.  This is a subject in itself!

 

4 - One passenger use by Jintys was on North London Line steam passenger trains from the 1930s until  wartime damage ended many of them about 1940.  They worked from Broad St to High Barnet and the East Coast Main Line suburban destinations and toward Poplar.

 

Eric

[Eric Stuart]

Well, this was quite wide-ranging:  Passenger work by Jintys, Swansea Push-Pulls, Condensing and the sadly virtually lost "Route tho' the Peak'.

 

1 - Thanks for the confirmations/info re the Jinty P-P locos and their workings.   Push-Pull is a subject in itself and I hope to have an article published early next year.

 

2 - I recall that, in addition to day-time stopping trains through the Peak, there were two 'commuter' workings into Derby in the am and two back pm on weekdays.  Monsel Dale - thankfully still accessible: both the trail and the hotel!

 

3 - Condensing was as described.  As it reduced haulage capacity, drivers sometimes defied rules to condense.  Earlier 0-6-0Ts on the Kensiington freights had condensing gear, but latterly the Jintys did not.  This is a subject in itself!

 

4 - One passenger use by Jintys was on North London Line steam passenger trains from the 1930s until  wartime damage ended many of them about 1940.  They worked from Broad St to High Barnet and the East Coast Main Line suburban destinations and toward Poplar.

 

Eric

 

PS - I forgot.  A few were re-gauged and worked in Northern Ireland, but I don't know on what services.  And some worked for the military, but I have few details.

[roythebus]

I'd have though the Broad Street-High Barnet services were worked by LNER locos? Or were Jintys loaned to the LNER for "the duration" to cover loco shortages?

[108]

Jinties 7456 and 7553 were re-gauged to 5ft 3 and used by the LMS Northern Counties Committee around Belfast for shunting duties from 1944. They were renumbered to 18 and 19.

[PenrithBeacon]

I'd have though the Broad Street-High Barnet services were worked by LNER locos? Or were Jintys loaned to the LNER for "the duration" to cover loco shortages?

Not sure when exactly the changeover occurred, probably around 1941-ish, but services out of Broad Street were operated before that by the NLR and it's successor the LMS. This at the insistence of the LNWR.

 

Regards

Edited October 8, 2017 by PenrithBeacon

[kevinlms]

I'd have though the Broad Street-High Barnet services were worked by LNER locos? Or were Jintys loaned to the LNER for "the duration" to cover loco shortages?

Definitely by Jintys, there is a photo in 'Fowler Locomotives', with one on such a train, about 8 bogies from memory, pre ww2. Hopefully the crews didn't get into too much trouble!

Edited October 8, 2017 by kevinlms

[Pannier Tank]

Definitely by Jintys, there is a photo in 'Fowler Locomotives', with one on such a train, about 8 bogies from memory, pre ww2. Hopefully the crews didn't get into too much trouble!

 

47500 (amongst others) was an ex Devons Road Engine and was fitted with Destination Board Brackets front & rear for Passenger Work. It carried these bracket until scrapped in 1965.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/roysrailpage/frame/47500.jpg

[John_Miles]

I'd have though the Broad Street-High Barnet services were worked by LNER locos? Or were Jintys loaned to the LNER for "the duration" to cover loco shortages?

 

Many of the engines that were used on the High Barnet services, numbers 7477-81, were fitted with push-pull gear and sent to the Swansea Vale - less exciting than racing A3s on the East Coast main line. The transfer took place around 1934. They retained the brackets used for the destination boards on the NLR services.

[Steamport Southport]

The ones built for passenger work were also fitted with screw reversers rather than the lever reversers that the majority had.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason