jcredfer Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Looking at all those pictures of cranes, inactive; lines of red/white striped crash barriers; pedestrian crowd barriers etc, looks more like a set for a new Top Gear programme ............. just haven't spotted the caravan yet ... Regards Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think they may be intending to drive piles to support a new sub-base, possibly concrete, for the trackbed. They appear to be prospecting for and marking pile locations, which would have to be evenly spaced and avoid the locations of the old timbers. With the base for the track supported by the piles, the old timbering can be allowed to deteriorate. Any voids created will be irrelevant. Presumably the life expectancy of the piles in contact with salty ground water will be sufficient. Note I am not a civil engineer, but have had some dealings with piling layouts for soft ground (on land reclamation fill over estuarine mud with prehistoric peat and clay beneath). IKB and I agree. Though Izy says he doesn't expect concrete to stay the course long term in such a saline wet/dry position. He'd still use oak -preferably that's spent a few decades at sea serving its time in a man'o war. dh 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted March 19, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2016 "You can't get the wood you know"; Crun, H, T.H.E.G.S., passim Having encountered Roman period oak piles dendrochronologically dated to c201AD preserved in intertidal mud, I'm inclined to agree. Unfortunately they had not survived above the mud surface where they weren't constantly wet. The wood was rock solid below the eroded level. The website that had pictures is unfortunately no more. I would have thought that modern concrete specifications include mixes designed for a marine environment; I looked at Google briefly which suggests they do, but couldn't face the technical stuff. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helcion Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Is the very short Surveyor's Assistant holding the staff in post 820 wearing his [or her] safety helmet on back-to-front ? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 "You can't get the wood you know"; Crun, H, T.H.E.G.S., passim Having encountered Roman period oak piles dendrochronologically dated to c201AD preserved in intertidal mud, I'm inclined to agree. Unfortunately they had not survived above the mud surface where they weren't constantly wet. The wood was rock solid below the eroded level. The website that had pictures is unfortunately no more. I would have thought that modern concrete specifications include mixes designed for a marine environment; I looked at Google briefly which suggests they do, but couldn't face the technical stuff. Dover Bronze Age Boat 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Today's visit, The hardcore weekender's, are charged with, digging another pit, grading and leveling. While,the rest are Saturday shopping with the Missus. P1310450 by ferriesdover, on Flickr P1310453 by ferriesdover, on Flickr 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 More, digging out. by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 More layering. by ferriesdover, on Flickr by ferriesdover, on Flickr Parked up for the w/end. Hide me. by ferriesdover, on Flickr 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 The bloke on the mini roller looks to be having a lot of fun at least he wont run anyone over today ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Local news report the line being closed for up to a year while they decide how to keep the sea at bay. See the Real Romney Marsh Watch FB group for details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Some interesting happenings there... The drill rig (Derek) *might* be boring down until it hits solid material (rock). It seems to have left piles of a pinkish dust in this view, which supports that idea: http://www.flickr.com/photos/73534275@N06/25853548866/ The area where the excavator has dug out is pretty deliberate, too - it looks like a ramp from existing subgrade up to a new level - it seems overly neat and tidy for just a ramp to get to the track. https://www.flickr.com/photos/73534275@N06/25879117896/ That crawler crane is expen$ive. As a PM, I'd only justify bringing it in if I had a heavy load in a hard to reach place, or a tall one. As the access is pretty good, I suspect it's the latter. If it's what I think it is, the truck next to it tests compaction of the ground. It's hard to say exactly without knowing what the plan is, but it *could* be that they are going to use that big crane to drive piles down into bedrock. https://www.flickr.com/photos/73534275@N06/25879139556e Lastly, the markings here are quite precise - i.e. this is a surveyor showing how much more to a finished level. That frisbee on a stick looks like a receiver for a laser survey level. https://www.flickr.com/photos/73534275@N06/25246978854/ As a Civil Engineer, I'm quite curious how it will all end up - geoetech isn't my forte, but I know on any of these sorts of jobs, you don't bring in the specific gear seen here unless certain things are needed - for instance, I've had a compaction testing truck on a sandy site where we were about to build a new station. Same with the crawler crane. It looks like they are making doubly sure that any track they do build over the top will not suffer from poor subgrade in the long run - which given they may not get a chance to access the area with this amount of freedom - is a good plan. Of course they also may have had trouble here historically, and so are taking the chance to fix all the issues at once. But I'm a long way away, and we don't always do things the same way as you guys in the UK, so it could end up being a different story altogether... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railsquid Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 "You can't get the wood you know"; Crun, H, T.H.E.G.S., passim Having encountered Roman period oak piles dendrochronologically dated to c201AD preserved in intertidal mud, I'm inclined to agree. Unfortunately they had not survived above the mud surface where they weren't constantly wet. The wood was rock solid below the eroded level. The website that had pictures is unfortunately no more. I would have thought that modern concrete specifications include mixes designed for a marine environment; I looked at Google briefly which suggests they do, but couldn't face the technical stuff. Pozzolana mix? Hardly modern though . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Some interesting happenings there... The drill rig (Derek) *might* be boring down until it hits solid material (rock). It seems to have left piles of a pinkish dust in this view, which supports that idea: http://www.flickr.com/photos/73534275@N06/25853548866/ The area where the excavator has dug out is pretty deliberate, too - it looks like a ramp from existing subgrade up to a new level - it seems overly neat and tidy for just a ramp to get to the track. https://www.flickr.com/photos/73534275@N06/25879117896/ That crawler crane is expen$ive. As a PM, I'd only justify bringing it in if I had a heavy load in a hard to reach place, or a tall one. As the access is pretty good, I suspect it's the latter. If it's what I think it is, the truck next to it tests compaction of the ground. It's hard to say exactly without knowing what the plan is, but it *could* be that they are going to use that big crane to drive piles down into bedrock. https://www.flickr.com/photos/73534275@N06/25879139556e Lastly, the markings here are quite precise - i.e. this is a surveyor showing how much more to a finished level. That frisbee on a stick looks like a receiver for a laser survey level. https://www.flickr.com/photos/73534275@N06/25246978854/ As a Civil Engineer, I'm quite curious how it will all end up - geoetech isn't my forte, but I know on any of these sorts of jobs, you don't bring in the specific gear seen here unless certain things are needed - for instance, I've had a compaction testing truck on a sandy site where we were about to build a new station. Same with the crawler crane. It looks like they are making doubly sure that any track they do build over the top will not suffer from poor subgrade in the long run - which given they may not get a chance to access the area with this amount of freedom - is a good plan. Of course they also may have had trouble here historically, and so are taking the chance to fix all the issues at once. But I'm a long way away, and we don't always do things the same way as you guys in the UK, so it could end up being a different story altogether... Thanks for your input Scott, appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Local news report the line being closed for up to a year while they decide how to keep the sea at bay. See the Real Romney Marsh Watch FB group for details. Care to put a link up Roy,please ? Found the FB Group, but not the statement, did spend time trawling it. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Had a closer look at this one dt, and it's quite interesting (helps if you click it full size). There are parallel markings in red on the old wall that seem to indicate the location of columns. I've also marked a level that has been highlighted in blue on the side of the wall - yellow arrow of mine - that usually is a "top of fill" mark for earthworks operators. But the biggest curiosity for me are the white cubes (circles in blue) - 7 of them. They seem too closely spaced to be survey marks or mounts for a prismatic survey head. More questions than answers now, I'm afraid! S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Shakey.jpg Had a closer look at this one dt, and it's quite interesting (helps if you click it full size). There are parallel markings in red on the old wall that seem to indicate the location of columns. I've also marked a level that has been highlighted in blue on the side of the wall - yellow arrow of mine - that usually is a "top of fill" mark for earthworks operators. But the biggest curiosity for me are the white cubes (circles in blue) - 7 of them. They seem too closely spaced to be survey marks or mounts for a prismatic survey head. More questions than answers now, I'm afraid! S Thanks for spending sometime on this Scott. I will be up there in about 3 hours time. Anything you want,photographed specifically ? If you click any of the photos,then into my Flckr site, you you be able to expand the photo,without losing a lot of definition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Shakey.jpg Had a closer look at this one dt, and it's quite interesting (helps if you click it full size). There are parallel markings in red on the old wall that seem to indicate the location of columns. I've also marked a level that has been highlighted in blue on the side of the wall - yellow arrow of mine - that usually is a "top of fill" mark for earthworks operators. But the biggest curiosity for me are the white cubes (circles in blue) - 7 of them. They seem too closely spaced to be survey marks or mounts for a prismatic survey head. More questions than answers now, I'm afraid! S To me,those white prisms on the wall, seem to lineup with every other original Seawall support,from the original wooden trestle. There are more than seven,on the wall, they go almost to the tunnel mouths. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2016 To me,those white prisms on the wall, seem to lineup with every other original Seawall support,from the original wooden trestle. There are more than seven,on the wall, they go almost to the tunnel mouths. Would those be the old rails that we've seen that go into the concrete wall. If they are it would seem to be better to miss them rather than to try and bore through them. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted March 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) Pozzolana mix? Hardly modern though . I was being slightly ironic re concrete for marine environments. I assume there has been much progress on the subject since this was built http://www.engineering-timelines.com/scripts/engineeringItem.asp?id=220. Note the location on the map is wrong for the quay at Woolston, which was just south of the '2' in 'A3025'. The concrete concerned was still apparently sound (I saw it at close quarters, at low tide), and the structure in use, in the early 2000s before the Works was closed. It's now been removed. Here's a bit of it http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/archive/2012/08/features/over-matter/viewgallery/285864. Edited March 20, 2016 by petethemole 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 Care to put a link up Roy,please ? Found the FB Group, but not the statement, did spend time trawling it. Thanks. Sorry I'll try to find it later today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Thanks for spending sometime on this Scott. I will be up there in about 3 hours time. Anything you want,photographed specifically ? If you click any of the photos,then into my Flckr site, you you be able to expand the photo,without losing a lot of definition. Thanks dt - yes, I was looking at flickr, but couldn't get them to post in my first post, thats why it's just links. If you can get a view that shows the alignment of the railway - or even if you use paint/photoshop/whatever and mark it on one of the shots you already have, that may also reveal a bit. The guys who do this sort of work in Oz are always having people ask them what its all about - so if you were anywhere near one of the orangemen (or women), that probably would be the easiest way to find out! As I said - we may do things differently here, so some things (like the compaction truck) I'm 99% sure of - others, not so much, not knowing what the issue they are trying to solve is. S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 (edited) And a bit more research (lucky it's Sunday night here!) I'm 99% certain those red marks that I suggested were columns are the beams on the old trestle. The spacings are regular, and seem to mimic this NR photo: http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/resources/dover-trial-pits-reveal-the-former-trestle *** Those prisms: Reading the NR pages, it is the seawall collapse that has triggered all this. *Perhaps* they are set up along the wall as a vertical datum - you mention they go to the tunnel, but I notice they also head a long way back towards Dover, too. If they are some sort of light directing prisms, in theory, the beam will be broken if an area settles by a certain amount - and that would flag it to the NR Civil Engineers? Just an idea. Edited March 20, 2016 by jukebox 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Thanks dt - yes, I was looking at flickr, but couldn't get them to post in my first post, thats why it's just links. If you can get a view that shows the alignment of the railway - or even if you use paint/photoshop/whatever and mark it on one of the shots you already have, that may also reveal a bit. The guys who do this sort of work in Oz are always having people ask them what its all about - so if you were anywhere near one of the orangemen (or women), that probably would be the easiest way to find out! As I said - we may do things differently here, so some things (like the compaction truck) I'm 99% sure of - others, not so much, not knowing what the issue they are trying to solve is. S Too late today, just waiting for the hourly Sunday bus home. No one working on site today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Got home 20 mins ago. As to asking anyone on site,that's a no no, am one hundred feet Above them, at about two hundred yards away. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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