AndyID Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 No but that might be fun. Asymetrique Double Champignon just means what we call Bullhead with a heavier section at the top. Symetrique was the sort of chaired rail that was supposed to be reversible but wasn't; several companies carried on using it anyway. There were an awful lot of British engineers and contractors involved in the building of France's first main lines and even the signalling developed from early Britiish practice though it took a rather different path. If you happen to have a pic of the zig-zag track I might try printing a piece for giggles (obviously, I need to get a life ) I have a sort of very half-baked idea that it might be possible to make it automatically gauge widen when it's curved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted April 5, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2016 Do not, whatever you do, tell Stubby47. Too late, he's spotted it..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I have a sort of very half-baked idea that it might be possible to make it automatically gauge widen when it's curved. I thought C&L BH flexitrack already did this....but you loose the inward cant (is that the right word?) of the rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I thought C&L BH flexitrack already did this....but you loose the inward cant (is that the right word?) of the rails. I found it difficult to understand how this could work so I have just measured the gauge of a length of C&L BH with a digital caliper straight and curved and I can't find any significant difference. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Mike - maybe it's an urban legend - how curved was the track? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted April 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) I found it difficult to understand how this could work so I have just measured the gauge of a length of C&L BH with a digital caliper straight and curved and I can't find any significant difference. Hi Mike, The theory is that because the head of the rail is angled in from the foot, it must go round a larger radius (on the inside rail) than the foot radius. If the head goes round a larger radius than the foot, it follows that the head must be stretched slightly longer than the length of the rail measured along the foot. Likewise on the outer rail of the curve, with the foot of the rail needing to stretch relative to the head. All this requires massive forces within the rail. This is impossible with only the soft plastic chairs holding the rail at an angle, and the rail straightens up instead to equalize the head and foot radii. If the rail foot is held sufficiently strongly in position, the result would be that the gauge at the rail head widens. In practice the foot also moves inwards in the soft plastic, and the thin sleepers distort, with the result that almost no change of gauge is measurable. On the prototype the radius is much more gentle, so the measured difference in head length per rail is smaller, and the heavy chair castings can apply the required forces to the rail to keep the rail inclined on curves. p.s. the Peco drawing shows the rail vertical, which avoids these problems with flexi-track, and allows easy stress-free curving. regards, Martin. Edited April 5, 2016 by martin_wynne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Riley Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Martin, Thanks for your explanation. Although I'm a civil engineer, i had to read it a few times to understand it. But my field is roads, not railways. I think your conclusion is that, in practice, C&L will not provide gauge widening? Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted April 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2016 I think your conclusion is that, in practice, C&L will not provide gauge widening? Hi Mike, Broadly yes, it doesn't work. It might work if you fixed the track directly to a firm surface such as hardwood, using an adhesive such as Araldite or Cascamite, ensuring that the adhesive penetrated the recess in the base of each chair. But I don't think the result would be very successful track for running quality. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Many things provide in theory that which cannot be observed in practice. How about that look, I'm agreeing with Martin to some extent..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Many things provide in theory that which cannot be observed in practice. How about that look, I'm agreeing with Martin to some extent..... I am confident Martin will genuflect in your general direction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ianLMS Posted April 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2016 I saw the new Peco track for real at York Model Rail Show and was suitably impressed. Several folks asked the main question while I was at the stand "when will it be available?" so they know the interest is out there. The response was towards the end of the year and most folks just said that they would happily wait until them before track laying rather than buy the current range. So, it appears Peco are happy with the response so far and are pressing on! can't wait! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 I saw the new Peco track for real at York Model Rail Show and was suitably impressed. Several folks asked the main question while I was at the stand "when will it be available?" so they know the interest is out there. The response was towards the end of the year and most folks just said that they would happily wait until them before track laying rather than buy the current range. So, it appears Peco are happy with the response so far and are pressing on! can't wait! Ian, did you ask 'em about points? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 I am confident Martin will genuflect in your general direction First time I've heard it called that..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ianLMS Posted April 6, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 6, 2016 I didn't get near enough to ask them, and I didn't hear anyone else ask either, so unfortunately I cannot pass on any news on points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 6, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) I didn't get near enough to ask them, and I didn't hear anyone else ask either, so unfortunately I cannot pass on any news on points. I asked.... And others have emailed Peco directly Cheers, Mick Edited April 6, 2016 by newbryford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 If they are going to do the points as well i hope they close the gap between the stock rail and blade a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 The extra wide gap is there to prevent wheels shorting the point blade with the stock rail which in many Peco points are opposite polarity. However if the polarity switching method is changed and the stock rail and point blade bonded then the gap could be reduced within the tolerances of OO back to back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class26 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) I asked.... And others have emailed Peco directly Cheers, Mick I phoned Peco directly a few weeks ago about points and firstly the lady who answered said what I presume was the standard answer that they are gauging response to the track first and I pointed out that the track wasn`t likely to sell until points were available to go with it and she said "we know that". You can draw your own conclusions from that. Edited April 7, 2016 by class26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Hi Mike, Broadly yes, it doesn't work. It might work if you fixed the track directly to a firm surface such as hardwood, using an adhesive such as Araldite or Cascamite, ensuring that the adhesive penetrated the recess in the base of each chair. But I don't think the result would be very successful track for running quality. regards, Martin. To go back to the beginning when the big improvement in BH track was introduced. Alan Gibson, Len Newman, C & L, K & L, take your pick regarding what to call it.. Was it really 30 years ago. Ian Pusey wrote. I have some doubts about the necessary gauge-widening on curves with the ready-to-lay product. Alan (Gibson) assures me that this does happen since, when the track is curved, the rail is forced against the keys and thus shifts upright by, he says, as much as 4-thou. If this is the case, I imagine that for many modellers the ready-to-lay track will be of sufficient quality and detail to suffice for plain line. It is certainly thought to surpass any other available flexible track. From what I have seen so far the proposed Peco track falls a long way short of what many people have enjoyed since then. Take into account an alternative in SMP and I cannot understand the excitement generated by the Peco announcement. It will sell I presume, for the same reason that their other types of track sell. However the dogs whatsits it certainly is not. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 The extra wide gap is there to prevent wheels shorting the point blade with the stock rail which in many Peco points are opposite polarity. However if the polarity switching method is changed and the stock rail and point blade bonded then the gap could be reduced within the tolerances of OO back to back. This would be nice, but sadly it is impractical. Reducing the gap between stock rails & point blades can only be reduced when back to backs are adjusted accurately. If a manufacturer like Peco starts to produce pointwork as accurate as stated tolerances will allow, it will become necessary to set back to backs on nearly all new models before you can run them (because they are invariably out). Many people will find this unacceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted April 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2016 I saw the new Peco track for real at York Model Rail Show and was suitably impressed. Several folks asked the main question while I was at the stand "when will it be available?" so they know the interest is out there. The response was towards the end of the year and most folks just said that they would happily wait until them before track laying rather than buy the current range. So, it appears Peco are happy with the response so far and are pressing on! can't wait! Once Peco see how popular this track is, it will only be a matter of time before they start producing flat bottomed track, with both wooden and concrete style sleepers, to a similar style. Now climbing back on to my flying pig! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I like checking this thread every week or so. It seems to have developed the RMWeb equivalent of perpetual motion! I recently bought an Electrotren model of an English Electric electric loco exported to Spain. I do hope that Peco soon bring out some track that is "right" for the Spanish broad gauge... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) I like checking this thread every week or so. It seems to have developed the RMWeb equivalent of perpetual motion! I recently bought an Electrotren model of an English Electric electric loco exported to Spain. I do hope that Peco soon bring out some track that is "right" for the Spanish broad gauge... They did once. At 1:87 scale the Spanish 1668mm is 19.17mm so EM gauge track is almost as close to that in H0 as it is to 1435mm in 4mm/ft scale. Peco track used to be available in EM as well as "standard" 00 (you did have to assemble it yourself though) P4 track would be even closer but Peco have never AFAIK made that. In both cases the sleeper spacing might be wrong. I wonder if there is a "proto" group in Spain or Portugal for Iberian gauge. Edited April 7, 2016 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted April 7, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2016 P4 track would be even closer but Peco have never AFAIK made that. They do however possess the tooling for it, because they now own Ratio: Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Martin - do these have moulded-on chairs (for BH rail) and how precise is the gauge? Presumably you have to cut some webs for curved track? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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