RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted January 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2016 Like Paul above I was both surprised and humbled that my own blog at http://grahammuz.com/was even nominated let alone receive enough votes in my case to be 4th in the list, thank you to all whom voted. Those above me are very much worth of their respective positions especially Adrian and his excellent http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/ site which is a fantastic resource for all in the hobby from bunesses, layout owners, model railway clubs / societies and exhibition organisers alike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 The biggest surprise for me is the Bachmann C1 (and S15 for that matter ) beaten into forth place by the Crosti 9F. The 9F did well considering its more basic construction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted February 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2016 I find it very curious that the number of votes for Bachmann Branchline as OO Gauge manufacturer of the year and the number of votes for Graham Farish as N Gauge manufacturer of the year are exactly the same—both are 901. The chance of this happening must be infinitesimal! I see that you have introduced a "lifetime achievement" award. If this was your intention why didn't you open this up to public voting too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 I find it very curious that the number of votes for Bachmann Branchline as OO Gauge manufacturer of the year and the number of votes for Graham Farish as N Gauge manufacturer of the year are exactly the same—both are 901. The chance of this happening must be infinitesimal! I see that you have introduced a "lifetime achievement" award. If this was your intention why didn't you open this up to public voting too? BRM and RMweb previously have given a lifetime achievement award to Simon Kohler, Graham's award was given to coincide with this year's awards; it's not to say there'll be one for for someone every year and it's not something which would be put to a vote (the same as happens in other industries, particularly entertainment), it's something determined on an as and when basis. I hadn't even noticed that the number of votes was the same, it doesn't mean it was the same 901 people though does it? The same as the 153 people who voted for a Dapol Grange and a Bachmann E4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 A big thank you on behalf of Alan and Maggie to all who voted for Warren Lane as layout of the year, that was a close contest at the top! And a big shout to everyone in the poll that makes this the 'exciting' and informative hobby that it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The biggest surprise for me is the Bachmann C1 (and S15 for that matter ) beaten into forth place by the Crosti 9F. This surprised me too, but the difference was only one vote. It's a statistical dead heat. Perhaps more people own or have seen first hand a 9F over the C1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guard_jamie Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 An interesting set of results. Pleased to see the O2 get recognition not only on its own merits but as a harbinger of things to come from DJ collaborations. Could thought please be given next year to introducing a 'coarse/standard scale' category for best O gauge loco, wagon and manufacturer? I appreciate that putting this world head to head with Minerva/Dapol/Heljan would not be a realistic move, but the retro style corner of our hobby is a growing one in my experience, and there are several current producers of British outline stock - ACE, Darstaed, ETS, Seven Mills, WJV, who have a fairly high output. Us retro types don't have a dedicated magazine (only the society magazines of the few specialist societies which centre on genuine vintage kit) so it would be nice for the model magazine world to expand its coverage in this area a little. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 If said companies let us know of any new releases there's no reason why they cannot be included in the existing categories. Also if kit producers advised of new kits too there's no reason why there couldn't be a separate category there though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guard_jamie Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Fair comment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 4, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2016 This surprised me too, but the difference was only one vote. It's a statistical dead heat. Perhaps more people own or have seen first hand a 9F over the C1? I think that's a fair point . We don't know it obviously but I suspect there are many more purchasers of the Crosti than the C1 which is a limited edition after all and much more expensive. I'm really surprised at Bachmann getting Manufacturer of the year. Two large increases in price in two years, a long backlog of models compared with Hornby delivering what 4 new models to fairly positive if not glowing reviews and at now generally lower prices than competition. True their drive to selling on line is an issue , but at the same time they've made efforts to connect with public on Engine Shed and Simon Says. If they were bothered (and I'm not sure the current management is) they must wonder what they've got to do to get an award Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I think that's a fair point . We don't know it obviously but I suspect there are many more purchasers of the Crosti than the C1 which is a limited edition after all and much more expensive. I'm really surprised at Bachmann getting Manufacturer of the year. Two large increases in price in two years, a long backlog of models compared with Hornby delivering what 4 new models to fairly positive if not glowing reviews and at now generally lower prices than competition. True their drive to selling on line is an issue , but at the same time they've made efforts to connect with public on Engine Shed and Simon Says. If they were bothered (and I'm not sure the current management is) they must wonder what they've got to do to get an award Maybe that's due more to Grafar buyers adding to their votes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Fair do's to SLW for getting so many votes for the class 24 which many people probably weren't aware of until after voting was under way or closed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I'm really surprised at Bachmann getting Manufacturer of the year. Two large increases in price in two years, a long backlog of models compared with Hornby delivering what 4 new models to fairly positive if not glowing reviews and at now generally lower prices than competition. True their drive to selling on line is an issue , but at the same time they've made efforts to connect with public on Engine Shed and Simon Says. If they were bothered (and I'm not sure the current management is) they must wonder what they've got to do to get an award I have to agree with you here Legend, i didn't say it in my reply earlier, but I really don't think Bachmann deserved it! Contributions from N gauge modellers would certainly swing toward Bachmann, as Hornby have no real N gauge range, (and long may it remain!!). I said somewhere else on the forum that I believe there is an anti-Hornby stance to a lot of people on here, and lets face it, these people make up the majority of the 'voting popperlace'. I likened it to a similar attitude in UK soccer, Man. United, (hurriedly adding 'under Alex Ferguson') won loads of competitions and silverware domestically and internationally, but are still reviled as 'Manure'! ( Other football clubs are available). Looking at my purchases in 2015, and my predicted purchases in 2016, I know where most of my cash is going. Hornby can take that to the bank, you can't take an electronic award there! However, if Bachmann repeat last years performance, I will buy only one item from them, the Stanier 5MT 2.6.0. This year they are going to have their work cut out against the Colletts and LSWR rebuilds in the coach department, the Q6/B12/MN in the loco...etc. Here's to next season, Cheers from Oz, Peter c. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Contributions from N gauge modellers would certainly swing toward Bachmann, as Hornby have no real N gauge range, (and long may it remain!!) No, but Dapol, Union Mills, and CJM do. Perhaps it's more a case of OO modellers 'swinging it' for Bachmann. And, AFAIC, the comment in brackets is rather arrogant, narrow minded and unnecessary on a multi scale/gauge forum. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 5, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2016 I think Peter only means he wants Hornbys attention to remain on "OO" and not be diluted by moving into another gauge. Maybe selfish, but I agree. Hornby suffer because people still remember it from 2 or 3 years ago, when it had real manufacturing capacity problems and was starving retailers of stock to sell. I think it reached it's nadir with the Saint with it's solid cab handrails but retailing at higher price, no brass bearings on the GWR tanks etc. That was is the Hornby of 3 years ago and I was certainly very critical. Over the last two years it has delivered lots of new models at reasonable prices (more so if you get them discounted eg recent Hawkins Bazaar sale). At the same time Bachmann could do no wrong. Fantastic products at reasonable prices. Now with a reassessment on pricing and long development times it's Bachmann that have issues. A personal viewpoint is that they are pushing the envelope to see what they can charge and people will still buy eg Autocoach at £69.95. I'm disappointed that this won the 00 rolling stock category. I'm sure it's a fine model , but at what price. I just feel we are sending the wrong signal here. It takes a while for people's perceptions to change. Certainly these new Colletts look tasty and at £40 (probably £36 discounted) look very fine and highly detailed. Compare that with projected Bachmann Thompsons @£55 if they arrive this year. Should be interesting in 2016 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I think Peter only means he wants Hornbys attention to remain on "OO" and not be diluted by moving into another gauge. Maybe selfish, but I agree. Hornby suffer because people still remember it from 2 or 3 years ago, when it had real manufacturing capacity problems and was starving retailers of stock to sell. I think it reached it's nadir with the Saint with it's solid cab handrails but retailing at higher price, no brass bearings on the GWR tanks etc. That was is the Hornby of 3 years ago and I was certainly very critical. Over the last two years it has delivered lots of new models at reasonable prices (more so if you get them discounted eg recent Hawkins Bazaar sale). At the same time Bachmann could do no wrong. Fantastic products at reasonable prices. Now faith a reassessment on pricing and long development times it's Bachmann that have issues. A personal viewpoint is that they are pushing the envelope to see what they can charge and people will still buy eg Autocoach at £69.95. I'm disappointed that this won the 00 rolling stock category. I'm sure it's a fine model , but at what price. I just feel we are sending the wrong signal here. It takes a while for people's perceptions to change. Certainly these new Colletts look tasty and at £40 (probably £36 discounted) look very fine and highly detailed. Compare that with projected Bachmann Thompsons @£55 if they arrive this year. Should be interesting in 2016 If Hornby don't compete across the complete spectrum of railway modelling, like Bachmann do, then they can hardly expect to win everyone's vote. Maybe if they offered a range of quality N and O gauge models as well they would be more attractive to more people. It would hardly dilute their attention, after all it doesn't affect Bachmann. And, to be quite honest Bachmann have hardly priced themselves out of the market otherwise they wouldn't have won. No doubt those who voted were aware of current prices and obviously didn't feel they were an adverse factor in placing their vote. It's no good now trying to make that an issue or excuse for the results. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 I'm disappointed that this won the 00 rolling stock category. I'm sure it's a fine model , but at what price. I just feel we are sending the wrong signal here. It was a clear winner and to state that opinion implies that those who voted for it are lacking in pricing intelligence just because you feel differently (and frequently seem to try, unelected, to speak for a silent majority), I seem to recall *some* feeling the same about the inspection saloon and that took the award last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted February 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2016 If you want loco levels of detail the only difference is the lack of drive components and circuit board. Additionally a model like the saloon and auto coach where people are only likely to buy one or two of them you expect to sell less than a normal coach so the tooling cost has to be spread over a smaller number over the years of production runs. Both those factors lead to a higher price. Hornby charge more for the teaks because of the special printing too so even a standard coach can vary a fair bit in price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 to state that opinion implies that those who voted for it are lacking in pricing intelligence It also implies that everybody who voted for it actually knew the price because they either have one or looked it up. I voted in every category but I only own about two of the items nominated and I certainly didn't consult any price lists before ticking the boxes, I based it mostly on looking at pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 If Hornby don't compete across the complete spectrum of railway modelling, like Bachmann do, ... No comment on the rest of your post, but I'm intrigued that you think Bachmann is competing with Hornby on, for example, steam era ex-Great Eastern branchlines. Really? Maybe the odd Ivatt 4MT and 3F/4F invaders on the M&GN, but precious little else. Compared with Hornby recent releases of D16, J15, Gresley and Thompson non-gangwayed stock, and a forthcoming B12.* Both companies have strengths and weaknesses in different areas. Count the number of products each manufacturer had in the "best steam loco" category - which should surely tell you something about who actually has a broader spectrum in that area! Paul *Edit: forgot to mention the B17, of course. How could I have forgotten the lovely B17...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 5, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2016 I'm really surprised at Bachmann getting Manufacturer of the year. Two large increases in price in two years, a long backlog of models compared with Hornby delivering what 4 new models to fairly positive if not glowing reviews and at now generally lower prices than competition. True their drive to selling on line is an issue , but at the same time they've made efforts to connect with public on Engine Shed and Simon Says. If they were bothered (and I'm not sure the current management is) they must wonder what they've got to do to get an award That's how 'democracy' of the 'first past the post' variety works - he who gets the most votes wins. Reviewing my own r-t-r purchases of those listed in the poll on sheer number of different models Bachmann was my clear winner, by a very substantial margin. Now just because I bought them doesn't mean I voted for them (that would be impossible anyway if more than one was in any particular category) but obviously what I bought, if I thought it was any good, influenced my voting pattern. Exactly the same might well apply for other people - it's all a matter of individual choice and if mine is different from someone else's choice that is that, they have their opinion and I have mine. Next year it might be different and my preponderance of r-t-r purchases may well lie elsewhere, as it has in the past. Incidentally I'm not at all sure how relevant 'price' is? If something represents what the purchaser considers to be 'value for the money' (for whatever they happen to be buying) that is far more relevant than the price taken as a figure in isolation. If that were not the case and if price were a deciding factor then those who sell at the cheapest prices would inevitably be the winners, irrespective of whether or not they were perceived to offer value for money. It is alas all too easy to confuse price with value and in any case perceptions of 'value for money' may vary wildly among any sample of people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Due to brain fade, I originally posted this on the Class 73 thread, so I repeat it here...doh! Given the upsurge (and resulting confusion) in the variety of loco decoders, sound decoders and emerging DCC controllers/systems, does the panel think these might be worthy categories to include in future polls? I know both are highly complex products, in terms of application and use, and trying to categorize like-for-like for a poll would be a headache, but I feel feedback from the great unwashed, might prove informative for us and stimulating for manufacturers? These are seriously growing parts of our hobby, and we should not continue to ignore quantitative feedback on them. The qualitative opinions expressed on the multiple of threads here and elsewhere, often lead to some serious confusion and argument. However, many conclude with advice that one should try a variety and use the one that best suits him or her. We rarely find out what that decoder or system ultimately is. Perhaps categorisation could follow most DCC suppliers rule of thumb, for starter sets, advanced and PC/tablet based? Decoders into steam and diesel for sound. Power-only decoders - I don't know. So as not to leave the large number still using DC on the sidelines, a poll of DC controllers might also prove useful, perhaps split into back-EMF and standard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 No comment on the rest of your post, but I'm intrigued that you think Bachmann is competing with Hornby on, for example, steam era ex-Great Eastern branchlines. Really? Maybe the odd Ivatt 4MT and 3F/4F invaders on the M&GN, but precious little else. Compared with Hornby recent releases of D16, J15, Gresley and Thompson non-gangwayed stock, and a forthcoming B12.* It's quite absurd to select particular minor individual regions/periods, and claim there in no competition. Otherwise it's all to easy to counter with where was Hornbys competing modern electro-diesel locos or Underground stock? It's not about saying where is another companies class XYZ/2 peat burning loco but about offering a sensible range for all enthusiasts, including in scales other than OO/4mm. If you don't, it hardly makes sense to complain that those enthusiasts skewed the results. The fact is that it appears that Bachmann covered more bases and appealed to more voters. Consequently they won the award. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 It's quite absurd to select particular minor individual regions/periods, and claim there in no competition. Otherwise it's all to easy to counter with where was Hornbys competing modern electro-diesel locos or Underground stock? It's not about saying where is another companies class XYZ/2 peat burning loco but about offering a sensible range for all enthusiasts, including in scales other than OO/4mm. If you don't, it hardly makes sense to complain that those enthusiasts skewed the results. The fact is that it appears that Bachmann covered more bases and appealed to more voters. Consequently they won the award. G. I clearly misunderstood: when you wrote "complete spectrum" you obviously meant something other than "complete". My apologies. Though I'm now not entirely sure what your point is. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Though I'm now not entirely sure what your point is. You could try reading all the thread and points made. Hope that will help your lack of understanding. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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