Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

Don - do you mean Elmwell Village Depot? W&U layout that was in the April and May 2000 issues of British Railway Modelling?

 

Believe it now lives in the HMRS building at Swanick at the Midland Railway Centre.

 

Cracking little layout which inspired me greatly as a youngster!

 

Many thanks, Neil, for your kind email.

 

Yet another reason to visit Swanick.

 

Had I but world enough and time ....!

 

Excuse me, Gentlemen and Lady, but I do believe it's way past Beer O'clock. 

 

Last day of term for the Youngest, so was at Speech Day today.

 

Same again tomorrow for the Lad.

 

Beer helps.

[Nearholmer]

You have my sympathies.

 

I think it would take an entire brewery to ease the discomfort of the school piano/keyboard recital that I attended this morning; so much learned, and so much still to learn.

 

K

Edited June 30, 2017 by Nearholmer

[runs as required]

You wait till you have 6 grandchildren spread around the country ... and are expected to be evenhanded

dh

[NeilHB]

There are some very, very nice photos of Elmwell Village Depot on Flickr here from this photo onwards:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fwc439h/14762941907/

 

Simply delightful! Like Edwardian I really must make a trip to the HMRS building to view this lovely layout.

[Tom Burnham]

There are some very, very nice photos of Elmwell Village Depot on Flickr here from this photo onwards:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fwc439h/14762941907/

 

Simply delightful! Like Edwardian I really must make a trip to the HMRS building to view this lovely layout.

What a brilliant idea.  I wonder how the different seasons are managed?

[NeilHB]

What a brilliant idea. I wonder how the different seasons are managed?

The whole layout rotates - there are four different scenes each representing a different era/season - from early Great Eastern right through to BR.

[Tom Burnham]

The whole layout rotates - there are four different scenes each representing a different era/season - from early Great Eastern right through to BR.

 

Thanks, Neil.  On the list to see when I'm in the Midlands.

 

Tom

[Edwardian]

I thought I would ease myself back into rolling stock construction with a plastic wagon kit.

 

This is one I ordered from POW Sides.  Mountains rose and then fell again to dust, but then it arrived and I thought it high time I got round to it. 

 

Israel Turner's wagon was my first Cambrian kit and this is my first Slaters. It is a Gloucester 7-plank, side door only, apparently of an 1887 design. A larger prototype than the Wheeler & Gregory, it will add to the variety. As this is a pre-printed sides kit, the merchant is real.  Conveniently the merchant gives "Lynn" as the wagon's place of origin, which in the world of Castle Aching can be either King's or Bishop's.

 

I have also tried out Smiths couplings, which were a lot easier to put together than the PC couplings with the etched links.  I substituted a steel last link to ease uncoupling in due course.  More practical, but rather out of scale, is the hook.

 

Anyway, just the basic painting so far; dry brushing and dirtying up to follow.

[James Harrison]

I always go for Smiths links; aside from the spring and split pin at the back they're very easy to assemble.  Not convinced the links are to scale; if you run with the couplings taut the buffers are a good 18'' - 2' apart (to scale) but then you need that extra bit of room to actually be able to get in there and couple/ uncouple the wagons.  Still better than the horrid tension locks though!

[wagonman]

POWSides were never too bothered about accuracy of their models. The Dennick wagon as modelled is a post 1904 design which could still fit in your period, though Gloucester never supplied any wagons to Dennick. 

 

A quick trawl through the GER registers (not yet transcribed, alas. I must get around to it) finds that Dennick 123 and 124 were built in 1898 by the Midland Wagon Co in Birmingham and given GER registration plates 2529-30. They were built to carry 10 tons but were probably rather smaller than the model as they likely would have been built to the 1887 RCH specifications.

 

Dennick 125 was built by S J Claye in 1904 (GER 2772) and 129, again by Midland Wagon Co but in October 1908 (GER 4659) – these two could well have been to a larger pattern, while still rated to carry 10 tons, as they were likely built to the 1904 RCH specs. I'd suggest renumbering your wagon to 125 if you can be bothered!

 

I didn't manage to find 126-8 though that doesn't mean they're not there. Judging by the slow increase in his stock I suspect Mr Dennick may have started numbering at 100, or even 120!

 

I did find a dozen or so wagons belonging to the West Norfolk Farmers' Manure Co....

 

 

Richard

 

Richard

[Donw]

There are some very, very nice photos of Elmwell Village Depot on Flickr here from this photo onwards:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fwc439h/14762941907/

 

Simply delightful! Like Edwardian I really must make a trip to the HMRS building to view this lovely layout.

 

I must apologise for mentioning this layout it has brought rather on topic I feel as the WNR will have a tramway somewhere. Mind you the modelling deserves viewing. The scenes run through Spring summer autumn and winter. Spring being early GER and Winter BR. I seem to remember two there are two characters Henry the Shunter and Farmer Giles chatting who age through the scenes.

Thanks for posting the link.

 

Don

[Shadow]

POWSides were never too bothered about accuracy of their models. The Dennick wagon as modelled is a post 1904 design which could still fit in your period, though Gloucester never supplied any wagons to Dennick. 

 

A quick trawl through the GER registers (not yet transcribed, alas. I must get around to it) finds that Dennick 123 and 124 were built in 1898 by the Midland Wagon Co in Birmingham and given GER registration plates 2529-30. They were built to carry 10 tons but were probably rather smaller than the model as they likely would have been built to the 1887 RCH specifications.

 

Dennick 125 was built by S J Claye in 1904 (GER 2772) and 129, again by Midland Wagon Co but in October 1908 (GER 4659) – these two could well have been to a larger pattern, while still rated to carry 10 tons, as they were likely built to the 1904 RCH specs. I'd suggest renumbering your wagon to 125 if you can be bothered!

 

I didn't manage to find 126-8 though that doesn't mean they're not there. Judging by the slow increase in his stock I suspect Mr Dennick may have started numbering at 100, or even 120!

 

I did find a dozen or so wagons belonging to the West Norfolk Farmers' Manure Co....

 

 

Richard

 

Richard

Just following up a link to the West Norfolk Farmers' Manure Co. and came across this about shale oil just south of King's Lynn in Setchey. It had its own railway. It was around 1917 a bit late for CA but it was known about from mid 1800's.

 

https://www.scottishshale.co.uk/GazBeyond/BSEnglandShale/BSES_Works/SetchOilWorks.html

[Shadow]

Not seen this Map explorer before. Norfolk county Site.

Got OS, Arerial, Tythe, others..

 

http://www.historic-maps.norfolk.gov.uk/mapexplorer/

 

 

 

There's a 1882 map of Great Yarmouth here too, that shows the Drill Hall was "North End School" and possibly "St Peters Plain School" as well.

 

 

Forum thread about the Oil Fields

 

http://www.kingslynn-forums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1738&sid=976e9ec34be4831c110ca69212547d23

Edited July 2, 2017 by Shadow

[Edwardian]

I must apologise for mentioning this layout it has brought rather on topic I feel as the WNR will have a tramway somewhere. Mind you the modelling deserves viewing. The scenes run through Spring summer autumn and winter. Spring being early GER and Winter BR. I seem to remember two there are two characters Henry the Shunter and Farmer Giles chatting who age through the scenes.

Thanks for posting the link.

 

Don

 

You must, of course, not apologise; I think a number of us have enjoyed discovery this layout and its novel but effect approach.  Thank you for identifying it and to Neil for hunting it up.

 

Yes, traffic from Bishop's Lynn will run via  a GE/WN Joint tramway to a junction with the mainline north of Castle Aching, where trains will reverse.

 

 

Just following up a link to the West Norfolk Farmers' Manure Co. and came across this about shale oil just south of King's Lynn in Setchey. It had its own railway. It was around 1917 a bit late for CA but it was known about from mid 1800's.

 

https://www.scottishshale.co.uk/GazBeyond/BSEnglandShale/BSES_Works/SetchOilWorks.html

 

   

Not seen this Map explorer before. Norfolk county Site.

Got OS, Arerial, Tythe, others..

 

http://www.historic-maps.norfolk.gov.uk/mapexplorer/

 

 

 

There's a 1882 map of Great Yarmouth here too, that shows the Drill Hall was "North End School" and possibly "St Peters Plain School" as well.

 

 

Forum thread about the Oil Fields

 

http://www.kingslynn-forums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1738&sid=976e9ec34be4831c110ca69212547d23

 

That historic map site looks like it will be fun to explore, thank you.

 

Norfolk shale!

 

Thank you for the links to the webpage and the forum.  Fascinating stuff.

 

Unless there is anything technologically anachronistic about the idea, I am all for bringing forward the date of exploration.  After all, our Norfolk isn't exactly like the real one was.

 

Could this have been done as earIy as 1905? Well, the processing of the shale to provide oil had been done in Scotland for sometime. I must say, the extraction of the shale itself at Setch quarry does not strike me as particularly high-tech.  The caption to the picture below reads "The shale was dug, put into wheelbarrows, wheeled across the plank over the NG, tipped into the trucks then hauled up the slope and taken round to the works".

[Edwardian]

POWSides were never too bothered about accuracy of their models. The Dennick wagon as modelled is a post 1904 design which could still fit in your period, though Gloucester never supplied any wagons to Dennick. 

 

A quick trawl through the GER registers (not yet transcribed, alas. I must get around to it) finds that Dennick 123 and 124 were built in 1898 by the Midland Wagon Co in Birmingham and given GER registration plates 2529-30. They were built to carry 10 tons but were probably rather smaller than the model as they likely would have been built to the 1887 RCH specifications.

 

Dennick 125 was built by S J Claye in 1904 (GER 2772) and 129, again by Midland Wagon Co but in October 1908 (GER 4659) – these two could well have been to a larger pattern, while still rated to carry 10 tons, as they were likely built to the 1904 RCH specs. I'd suggest renumbering your wagon to 125 if you can be bothered!

 

I didn't manage to find 126-8 though that doesn't mean they're not there. Judging by the slow increase in his stock I suspect Mr Dennick may have started numbering at 100, or even 120!

 

I did find a dozen or so wagons belonging to the West Norfolk Farmers' Manure Co....

 

 

Richard

 

Richard

 

 

Just following up a link to the West Norfolk Farmers' Manure Co. and came across this about shale oil just south of King's Lynn in Setchey. It had its own railway. It was around 1917 a bit late for CA but it was known about from mid 1800's.

 

https://www.scottishshale.co.uk/GazBeyond/BSEnglandShale/BSES_Works/SetchOilWorks.html

 

Well, the West Norfolk Farmers' Manure Co, must surely have a yard office at Castle Aching and at least one wagon.  I think this beneficial organisation has been mentioned here before. 

 

I would be very grateful for any information concerning its wagon fleet.

 

Turning to J I Dennick, thanks for the information. I am surprised to find POW Sides perpetuating inaccuracies; I had assumed that kit manufacturers had more integrity than RTR manufacturers when it came to milking the tooling through inappropriate liveries.  

 

The, Slaters, instruction sheet claims this to be the 1887 design, which would fit with what you (Wagonman) say concerning No.123.  I was surprised, however, at the assertion that this was a 1887 wagon, because it seems rather large for that.

 

One of the major gaps in my library, however, is the complete absence of books on PO wagons.

 

That said, in my Alternative Norfolk, I see no problem.  I will simply note that this is not a wagon to run on any prototype GE layout, e.g. Wolferton, which I have mentioned I would love to model. 

 

I have now scruffed it up a bit, which I think calms the livery down somewhat.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Edwardian

[Shadow]

Been wasting somee time on that Forum linked to above.

 

there's also a thread for Railways around Lynn.. (Think you might be interested in Railway 14 and 15 posts. http://www.kingslynn-forums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1642&start=15)

[wagonman]

Well, the West Norfolk Farmers' Manure Co, must surely have a yard office at Castle Aching and at least one wagon.  I think this beneficial organisation has been mentioned here before. 

 

I would be very grateful for any information concerning its wagon fleet.

 

Turning to J I Dennick, thanks for the information. I am surprised to find POW Sides perpetuating inaccuracies; I had assumed that kit manufacturers had more integrity than RTR manufacturers when it came to milking the tooling through inappropriate liveries.  

 

The, Slaters, instruction sheet claims this to be the 1887 design, which would fit with what you (Wagonman) say concerning No.123.  I was surprised, however, at the assertion that this was a 1887 wagon, because it seems rather large for that.

 

One of the major gaps in my library, however, is the complete absence of books on PO wagons.

 

That said, in my Alternative Norfolk, I see no problem.  I will simply note that this is not a wagon to run on any prototype GE layout, e.g. Wolferton, which I have mentioned I would love to model. 

 

I have now scruffed it up a bit, which I think calms the livery down somewhat.

 

 

Seeing the side on view of the Dennick wagon shows it to be the shorter 15ft type – I had assumed it was 16ft – so yes, it's OK for pre-1904! Sorry for misleading everyone and maligning POWSides – which is not to say they don't get it wrong sometimes. That said the design is very 'Gloucester' especially the 'V' hanger. I'm not sure if I have any photos of contemporary Midland Wagon Co 10-tonners though I believe they used round bottomed grease 'boxes.

Edited July 2, 2017 by wagonman

[wagonman]

You must, of course, not apologise; I think a number of us have enjoyed discovery this layout and its novel but effect approach.  Thank you for identifying it and to Neil for hunting it up.

 

Yes, traffic from Bishop's Lynn will run via  a GE/WN Joint tramway to a junction with the mainline north of Castle Aching, where trains will reverse.

 

 

 

   

 

That historic map site looks like it will be fun to explore, thank you.

 

Norfolk shale!

 

Thank you for the links to the webpage and the forum.  Fascinating stuff.

 

Unless there is anything technologically anachronistic about the idea, I am all for bringing forward the date of exploration.  After all, our Norfolk isn't exactly like the real one was.

 

Could this have been done as earIy as 1905? Well, the processing of the shale to provide oil had been done in Scotland for sometime. I must say, the extraction of the shale itself at Setch quarry does not strike me as particularly high-tech.  The caption to the picture below reads "The shale was dug, put into wheelbarrows, wheeled across the plank over the NG, tipped into the trucks then hauled up the slope and taken round to the works".

 

Unfortunately it is this shale deposit that makes north Norfolk vulnerable to fracking enthusiasts... Man the barricades!

Edited July 2, 2017 by wagonman

[Nearholmer]

This shale stuff is fascinating - right up my street!

 

I seriously hope that the WNR gets to serve the shale industry.

 

Kevin

[Edwardian]

Seeing the side on view of the Dennick wagon shows it to be the shorter 15ft type – I had assumed it was 16ft – so yes, it's OK for pre-1904! Sorry for misleading everyone and maligning POWSides – which is not to say they don't get it wrong sometimmes. That said the design is very 'Gloucester' especially the 'V' hanger. I'm not sure if I have any photos of contemporary Midland Wagon Co 10-tonners though I believe they used round bottomed grease 'boxes.

 

That is most helpful, thank you.

 

I agree the u/f is very Gloucester, as it is on the Cambrian Kit.  IIRC, Slaters did Gloucester and Charles Roberts, and I imagine here POW Sides plumped for the nearest match, which seems fair enough, so my apologies to those good folks.

 

Dry brushing revealed Gloucester's initials on the axle boxes!

 

However, I think this is probably close enough to be passed off as an authentic wagon, so that's a bonus.

 

 

This shale stuff is fascinating - right up my street!

 

I seriously hope that the WNR gets to serve the shale industry.

 

Kevin

 

Kevin, I agree

 

You'll have to remind me of the process to get from shale oil to gas, because I still want a Pintsch gas works at some point. 

 

I am wondering what various wagon types, in and out, would be associated with (1) quarrying the shale (at Setch it seems there was an NG line to the works where it was converted to oil), (2) the production of shale oil, and (3) the production of gas.

 

In theory we could model the whole story, from shale pit to the WNR's carriage sidings (which must be at its Works, which must be somewhere called something Constable or similar). Has anyone done that, I wonder?

[Shadow]

Found this article about English Oilfields Limited.

 

2012 RG EOL.pdf

 

found here :- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251730073_The_Norfolk_oil-shale_rush_1916-1921

[Donw]

Edwardian my apology was tongue in check we wander so far and wide it seems more appropriate to apologise for being  back on topic.

 

I love the comment on the pictures in Shadow's link . 'I do not want thanks for any research I am able to help out with. I just love doing it.'  This seems a most admirable attitude and rather fitting for this thread.

 

Regarding the Waggons the major manufacturers were improving their products all the time so Charles Roberts for example was building waggons from the turn of the century to designs very close to what became the RCH 1907 standard. So it may well be that waggons appearing to be to a later design were around.

 

 

Don

[Shadow]

Found a picture of one of the EOL wagons, alongside one of Isreal Turner's

 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Shadow

[Nearholmer]

Just skimmed the paper attached by Shadow. These oil deposits seem entirely suitable for the WNR, their value being largely imaginary, but with some grounding in truth.

 

K

[DonB]

Could not open the Map link (http://www.historic-...uk/mapexplorer/ ) got a pop-up saying "get Flash"  But just get a blank, black screen. Must be missing a trick somewhere!