Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

Mark Smithers, author of that volume, was the one who showed me all the drawings, zillions of which he'd had blown onto CDs. He is an amazingly assiduous researcher, working from primary sources, and pursuing every tiny lead to its conclusion, and doesn't "play his findings close to his chest" like many. That book is very interesting indeed, as is his one on 18" gauge steam railways.

 

K

Edited July 5, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

This looks like a good off-topic topic to start!

 

Some details of Akroyd Stuart lock's. Drawings, etc.

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ClGqCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=akroyd+stuart+hornsby+locos&source=bl&ots=Z18yfppx-F&sig=xmnThyR1aqvJJXk8G1kgMgLQWUk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRzpn28_LUAhWpB8AKHTYmBlgQ6AEIbTAR#v=onepage&q=akroyd%20stuart%20hornsby%20locos&f=false

 

Mark Smithers, author of that volume, was the one who showed me all the drawings, zillions of which he'd had blown onto CDs. He is an amazingly assiduous researcher, working from primary sources, and pursuing every tiny lead to its conclusion, and doesn't "play his findings close to his chest" like many. That book is very interesting indeed, as is his one on 18" gauge steam railways.

 

K

 

This will be very helpful in due course for my 006.5 project!j

[Nearholmer]

Are you following to topic about Brian Clarke's models? He was building in such insane scale/gauge combinations nearly forty years ago, and was the person who first got me into 18" gauge lines. There are photos of his quite amazing work in the thread. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/120910-brian-clarke-models/

 

BTW, the bogie loco was 30", rather than 18" gauge, so a great deal easier to replicate(!).

 

Also, Mark Smithers' third, well actually it was the first, mega-book is the one on the Heywood lines.

 

K

Edited July 5, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

I think there were a couple of Orenstein & Koppel fireless locos in the UK in the early 1900s, so it's not impossible to have an earlier one.

 

Well worth looking into, John, thanks for the tip.

 

e.g. "The Imperial Paper Mills were opened in 1911 ... the Imperial Paper Mills' railway was afforded a single-track inclined trailing connection with adjacent SE&CR branch line at Gravesend West Street station ... the early 20th Century, Germany was a world leader in fireless locomotive construction and the country's first examples were made some years before manufacturers in Britain started to produce such machines. The Imperial Paper Mills ordered two fireless locomotives from German company "Orenstein & Koppel", the first (Works No. 4708) arriving in time for the mills' opening in 1911, the second (Works No. 5900) coming in the following year"

 

"Orenstein & Koppel had earlier produced a fireless locomotive in 1906 for the Empire Paper Mills, Greenhithe, situated 2¾-miles to the west"

 

http://www.kentrail.org.uk/imperial_paper_mills.htm

 

Here is an Orenstein & Koppel fireless locomotive shunting at the Drewitz works in 1899, courtesy of http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/40/O&K.htm, and an advert from January 1902, courtesy of Grace's Guide (http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/images/d/dd/Im190201Cass-Oren.jpg) 

[Nearholmer]

The Gravesend fireless locos were quite famous, because they were about the last working steamers in the SE. My youngest bro and I made a pilgrimage to see them one Saturday, involving an almost interminable bus ride on route 122 (Brighton to Gravesend, reputedly the longest bus route in England), which ran past the end of our road, and terminated in Gravesend on the road high above the paper mill. All well and good, except that we got there just as the locos were being 'put to bed', so although we saw them, they were static and out of puff!

 

Would a 12yo and a 9yo be allowed to make such an unaccompanied excursion, getting back at about 2000, these days?

 

Sittingbourne paper mill was a rival in the "last steam" stakes, and they had at least one 30" gauge fireless, which worked in the scrap-paper area, where massive bales arrived for recycling.

 

Your O&K works photo shows a glimpse of the roof of the Zirkus on the skyline. This was a huge circular erecting shop, just like a big top, with wings radiating from it. Each wing had a specialist function, boiler-making, frame-making, wheels, cylinders and valve gear etc, and by being so efficiently organised did O&K become Europe's leading churner-out of locos ..... they got as close to mass producing steam locos as anyone, especially the 20hp and 40hp 0-4-0WT, of which they produced thousands.

 

K

 

Nice picky of the inside of Der Zirkus after closure

Edited July 5, 2017 by Nearholmer

[wagonman]

An unimpeachable source:

 

 

We live in hope that he is not un-impeachable...though the prospect of President Pence is in some ways even more scary1

[wagonman]

Insomnia. I have scanned it and can post here under 'fair use' provisions of the Copyright Act (I hope). Plate 83 of 'Ely to Kings Lynn' (Middleton Press – and well worth buying).

Edited July 6, 2017 by wagonman

[St Enodoc]

The Gravesend fireless locos were quite famous, because they were about the last working steamers in the SE. My youngest bro and I made a pilgrimage to see them one Saturday, involving an almost interminable bus ride on route 122 (Brighton to Gravesend, reputedly the longest bus route in England), which ran past the end of our road, and terminated in Gravesend on the road high above the paper mill. All well and good, except that we got there just as the locos were being 'put to bed', so although we saw them, they were static and out of puff!

 

Would a 12yo and a 9yo be allowed to make such an unaccompanied excursion, getting back at about 2000, these days?

 

Sittingbourne paper mill was a rival in the "last steam" stakes, and they had at least one 30" gauge fireless, which worked in the scrap-paper area, where massive bales arrived for recycling.

 

Your O&K works photo shows a glimpse of the roof of the Zirkus on the skyline. This was a huge circular erecting shop, just like a big top, with wings radiating from it. Each wing had a specialist function, boiler-making, frame-making, wheels, cylinders and valve gear etc, and by being so efficiently organised did O&K become Europe's leading churner-out of locos ..... they got as close to mass producing steam locos as anyone, especially the 20hp and 40hp 0-4-0WT, of which they produced thousands.

 

K

 

Nice picky of the inside of Der Zirkus after closure

Kevin, we had a school railway society trip to Bowaters at Sittingbourne (Kemsley Mill to be precise) in 1969. Some of us, including myself, were lucky enough to get a footplate ride on fireless loco "Unique" on a trip down to Ridham Dock and back.

[Hroth]

This might indeed be an ideal opportunity to sneak an Akroyd Stuart engine loco, by Hornsby, into the picture. They certainly designed and quoted for standard gauge ones, although I'm far from sure that any were actually sold. The great virtue is that the engine will run on any old rubbish, including, I'm sure, Dodo Brand Norfolk Crude. If ever they get to make benzine from it, the slogan can be: Dodo, the more refined motor spirit.

 

K

 

PS: Was Wells next the Sea named in honour of the oil boom?

Not just that they ran on any vaguely flammable liquid, but in the case of the Bolinders version (oft found in Trad Narrowboats) they don't need any particular means of going in reverse, you just kick start them in the opposite direction. I've always admired the fact that to initiate combustion, the Hot Bulb has to be preheated using a paraffin blowtorch.

 

And the measured yet arrythmic "boink" of a Bolinder engine in motion reminds me of a hydraulic ram....

 

 

Bolinder engined narrowboat: 

 

Starting a Bolinder: 

 

Interesting features include the amount of "oiling round" involved and the modernised feature, the engine has a propane blowtorch!

 

 

edits to include the Bolinder videos

Edited July 6, 2017 by Hroth

[runs as required]

Not just that they ran on any vaguely flammable liquid, but in the case of the Bolinders version (oft found in Trad Narrowboats) they don't need any particular means of going in reverse, you just kick start them in the opposite direction. I've always admired the fact that to initiate combustion, the Hot Bulb has to be preheated using a paraffin blowtorch.

 

And the measured yet arrythmic "boink" of a Bolinder engine in motion reminds me of a hydraulic ram...

Interesting features include the amount of "oiling round" involved and the modernised feature, the engine has a propane blowtorch!

These two videos have got to be the most enjoyable 20 minutes of timewasting I have spent for a long time.

The tension involved in starting up has the 'Flight of the Phoenix' knocked into a cocked hat.

I imagine the grease monkey said to the hopeful girls looking  forward to an afternoon on the water (on the Oxford canal near Rewley Road?) .

“I’ll just slip down and start the Boly”

dh

[Edwardian]

Thanks again to Wagonman.

 

Here is a detail of the picture he posted, showing the end two wagons.

 

I note the prominent door stops, and that they appear to have wooden u/fs, but what is the curious arrangement on the ends of the wagons?

 

I can just see one lettered "Norfolk Oilfields Ltd".  That said, I will have to attend some shows with second-hand trays; those little Hornby stone wagons would be ideal, but I am not paying upwards of £9 a pop on Flea Bay for them!

Edited July 6, 2017 by Edwardian

[runs as required]

are you thinking of something like those 2ft gauge Blaenau quarry wagons the GW used to load onto ST wagons to transport off over the Trawsfynydd branch to Bala and beyond?

With your card skills, I'd have thought you could contrive those most convincingly. Would they be transporting barrels or some sort of retorts?

dh

[Edwardian]

are you thinking of something like those 2ft gauge Blaenau quarry wagons the GW used to load onto ST wagons to transport off over the Trawsfynydd branch to Bala and beyond?

With your card skills, I'd have thought you could contrive those most convincingly. Would they be transporting barrels or some sort of retorts?

dh

 

Thanks, David

 

I suppose it depends where we go with this.

 

If we suppose successful exploitation of non-sulphurous shale on a limited basis from the end of the Nineteenth Century, we should at least have one of these Norfolk Oilfields Ltd drop-sides added to the wagon fleet to transport wooden oil barrels.

 

If, subsequently, rather than a round the room extension to Achingham, I adopt a system of modular micro layouts that could be bolted on the other side of the cassette yard, something of the mine or retort plant could be modelled, with more stock and a company locomotive.  This could include NG lines.

 

I confess that I had not envisaged the need for transporting NG wagons as part of the operations of the NOL system, though new ones would have to arrive via SG lines.

[Donw]

Dimensions of Barrels does seem to be a bit secret. 42 Imperial Gallons is 6.74 cu ft that is the contents so allowing for the wood etc. probably about 7.5 cu ft. So if the barrel was about 3ft high the average width would need to be 2.5sq ft which gives a diameter of about 1.8ft so probably 2ft diameter at its fattest. Not an exact figure but for some guidance to me something around 3 to 4 ft high and approaching 2ft diameter seems reasonable and fits in with Langley Models barrels at 13.5 mm high (diameter unspecified).

 

Don 

[Edwardian]

Dimensions of Barrels does seem to be a bit secret. 42 Imperial Gallons is 6.74 cu ft that is the contents so allowing for the wood etc. probably about 7.5 cu ft. So if the barrel was about 3ft high the average width would need to be 2.5sq ft which gives a diameter of about 1.8ft so probably 2ft diameter at its fattest. Not an exact figure but for some guidance to me something around 3 to 4 ft high and approaching 2ft diameter seems reasonable and fits in with Langley Models barrels at 13.5 mm high (diameter unspecified).

 

Don 

 

That is a most helpful assessment, thank you Don

[Compound2632]

Thanks again to Wagonman.

 

Here is a detail of the picture he posted, showing the end two wagons.

 

I note the prominent door stops, and that they appear to have wooden u/fs, but what is the curious arrangement on the ends of the wagons?

 

I don't think there's anything unusual about the ends of these wagons - it looks to me like the usual arrangement of ironwork for a dropside wagon. Compare this 3/4 view of a L&Y example. The end sheeting is held in place by a pair of wooden end pillars at about 2'4" centres and a pair of iron knees to which the fixings that latch the sides in place are secured. I can't find an online photo to link to showing similar doorstops but it's similar to a Cheshire Lines 3-plank dropside wagon illustrated in Midland Style (a Gloucester C&W Co. photo of 1896). I don't think these wagons are Gloucester products, however - the upper parts of the V-hanger, where it is fixed to the solebar, are vertical.

[DonB]

Quote: (from post 4417)

Thanks again to Wagonman.

 

Here is a detail of the picture he posted, showing the end two wagons.

 

I note the prominent door stops, and that they appear to have wooden u/fs, but what is the curious arrangement on the ends of the wagons?

 

 

 

Could they be fence posts? Or am I looking at the wrong things?

[Edwardian]

Quote: (from post 4417)

Thanks again to Wagonman.

 

Here is a detail of the picture he posted, showing the end two wagons.

 

I note the prominent door stops, and that they appear to have wooden u/fs, but what is the curious arrangement on the ends of the wagons?

 

 

 

Could they be fence posts? Or am I looking at the wrong things?

 

These:

[Compound2632]

These:

 

I interpret those as the iron washer plates on the wooden end pillars. On the L&Y wagon I linked to, there are five bolts through the end pillar: two fixing it to the headstock then one for each plank; the two for the headstock and the one for the bottom plank share a washer plate. My impression is that the ones on the English Oilfields wagon extend a little higher - to include the bolt for the middle plank, or perhaps as on this rather splendid model of a Midland wagon (D818 I think).

[Nearholmer]

Washer plates on timber uprights? Although logically there would be two, and I can only make out one.

[Northroader]

Aren't those just the vertical end stanchions placed in board of the buffers with reinforcing strip bolted on?

[Edwardian]

I interpret those as the iron washer plates on the wooden end pillars. On the L&Y wagon I linked to, there are five bolts through the end pillar: two fixing it to the headstock then one for each plank; the two for the headstock and the one for the bottom plank share a washer plate. My impression is that the ones on the English Oilfields wagon extend a little higher - to include the bolt for the middle plank, or perhaps as on this rather splendid model of a Midland wagon (D818 I think).

 

Except they seem to be this shape: 

[Compound2632]

Except they seem to be this shape: 

 

I sort of see what you mean but the resolution's not good enough. One can't be sure that widening might be part of the buffers. I would apply Occam's razor and assume the usual form of ironwork here.

[Edwardian]

It is an academic point, as I don't need to model whatever there are or are not to the extent that they might be other than conventional end stanchions on my Norfolk Oilfields Ltd wagons! But I was curious.

[jwealleans]

Something akin to the bump stops on this?