Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

Talking of KHAC, I don't think I've revealed my soi-distant claim to an old Anglo-Irish title.It's nothing, I won't mention it again...

 

I daresay that you are a descendant of Lord Mount Prospect (whilst on the subject of essential reading, which we weren't)!

[TheQ]

Thank you for your notifications, dons and students of RMweb University. I have come across another Pre-Raphaelite picture which has Railway interest, but of doubtful provenance.

 

GWR Holiday Poster.jpg

 

“There is less in this than meets the eye.”

(Tallulah Bankhead)

My I suggest looking at the vessels in the background thats more GWR  than G.W.R, or was your attention elsewhere?

[Hroth]

Now...

 

 

How do I get from Penzance to Cromer?

[Nearholmer]

Les

 

‘Avast Behind!’ as I believe the nautical term goes.

 

Hroth

 

Swim? I hesitate to suggest a stroke.

 

K

Edited February 6, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

Les

 

‘Avast Behind!’ as I believe the nautical term goes.

 

Hroth

 

Swim? I hesitate to suggest a stroke.

 

K

Swim?

 

A bit chilly at this time of year.....

 

 

As for the nautical term, I've always had a partiality for redheads.....

Edited February 6, 2018 by Hroth

[Regularity]

I hesitate to suggest a stroke.

 

Depends on whether you can reach or not. Edited February 6, 2018 by Regularity

[Hroth]

Depends on whether you can reach or not.

Wash yore brain out with carbolic!!!

[Edwardian]

Now...

 

Jean_Jacques_Henner_-_La_liseuse.jpg

 

How do I get from Penzance to Cromer?

 

Or ....

[Edwardian]

My I suggest looking at the vessels in the background thats more GWR  than G.W.R, or was your attention elsewhere?

 

Don't worry, I've wired the Admiralty and they tell me that they have matters in hand ....

[Hroth]

Don't worry, I've wired the Admiralty and they tell me that they have matters in hand ....

Caption Competition.....

 

"Don't go below just yet, someones just used the Heads......"

[Compound2632]

My I suggest looking at the vessels in the background thats more GWR  than G.W.R, or was your attention elsewhere?

 

There is some very interesting lichen on that rock in the foreground...

 

We've been here before but perhaps we could have some genuine railway-related 19th century eroticism:

 

 

The travelling companion on the left has removed her gloves.

[jwealleans]

Filth. I hereby cancel my subscription.

[Edwardian]

The time approaches when I may start to lay some track. 

 

I have looked at siding capacity and platform length.  This is nothing to do with the number of wagons that I expect to use each siding, but, rather, the capacity for which it is rated based upon the short wagon lengths of the day.

 

A, slightly random, real life comparison is the Alston, the terminus of a Newcastle & Carlisle branch built in the early 1850s.

 

I say slightly random because the nature of the location and the traffic differ, and there would be more goods (especially mineral) traffic and less passenger volume at Alston than at CA.  I am simply trying to get a feel for modest terminus facilities, whilst accepting that the compromises inherent in model railways often result in fewer and shorter sidings than might be found at a similar prototype location.

 

Alston had two dedicated coal sidings (over drops, of course), an end loading dock siding, a cattle dock siding and a goods shed siding, amongst others.

 

The coal sidings each could accommodate 19 wagons

 

The goods shed siding could accommodate 12 wagons

 

The cattle dock siding, 21 wagons

 

The end loading dock siding, 9 wagons 

 

I thought it might be interesting to compare this with the three sidings planned for CA.  Taking these to their maximum lengths:

 

- The siding closest to the station is shortened to form an end-loading dock and will accommodate 9-10 wagons, depending upon exactly where I terminate it

 

- The coal siding, which will also serve the feed merchants, will accommodate 19 wagons

 

- The goods shed siding will accommodate 16 wagons

 

One of the sidings will also need to serve a cattle dock.

 

So, it seems that siding lengths are broadly in keeping with a prototype, and a wagon capacity of 45 wagons is unlikely to be found insufficient in practice!

 

Turning to platform length, I had told DonW that my ideal maximum was 53", and I find that I am good for 53-54" before the ramp. I reckon that the absolute maximum is likely to be a scale 338'.  It was with interest that I turned to the example of Alston to find that the platform there was 318'.  So, again, a reasonable platform length has, I feel, been achieved. Most  trains will, I am sure, be far shorter, but I'd like a 6-coach train of 6 wheelers to fit, without looking too cramped.  If I'm lucky, I might have 10 feet to spare on such occasions.

 

Like CA, Alston has a turntable closing off the loop, so there is no room for the loco to pull forward of the platform end.

 

As I say, a slightly random comparison, but it encourages me to think that CA's facilities, limited though they may be, are at least on a prototypical scale.   

[sem34090]

I agree with Jon: I love the RAILWAY modelling produced here by James, and can only wish to aspire to the standard of his buildings, but I'm beginning to get bored with the constant topic drift in a downward direction. Some of the topic drifts are interesting, but this recurring one is a bit annoying now. I'm not saying your all sick minded or perverted, but I was hoping to read more postings such as James' above.

 

Also, I had enjoyed reading this thread during my lunch hour, but I can't risk it now!

 

Good Day,

 

E. Missenden

[Edwardian]

There is some very interesting lichen on that rock in the foreground...

 

We've been here before but perhaps we could have some genuine railway-related 19th century eroticism:

 

1083px-Augustus_Leopold_Egg_-_The_Travelling_Companions_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

 

The travelling companion on the left has removed her gloves.

 

Same, but different.  There certainly seems to be a Sense and Sensibility allegory going on here.

[Donw]

I am pleased the track plan has turned out well. The platform length sound about right I think Dolgelley was about 350ft . When a lot of lines were first built trains were very short and 300ft would have been sufficient of course by Edwardian times some trains were much longer. Where you had through stations it was quite common for trains to draw forward after the first coaches to allow passengers to unload from the rear ones. Obviously this was not practical at small terminii but should be quite sufficient at Castle Aching. Of course as post 1900 corridor coaches became more common is was less of an issue and by BR days passengers were usually told to move to a suitable coach (without any help with luggage). Indeed I used to get an HST from Gloucester to London as we approached Stonehouse the announcer warned access to the platform was from only the two rear coaches. 

Quite the shortest platform I have ever used was a Hendy on the TalyLlyn  a short bit of hard surface about 6ft long! There was room for the two of us and two dogs to all stand on at once.

 

Don

[Edwardian]

I am pleased the track plan has turned out well. The platform length sound about right I think Dolgelley was about 350ft . When a lot of lines were first built trains were very short and 300ft would have been sufficient of course by Edwardian times some trains were much longer. Where you had through stations it was quite common for trains to draw forward after the first coaches to allow passengers to unload from the rear ones. Obviously this was not practical at small terminii but should be quite sufficient at Castle Aching. Of course as post 1900 corridor coaches became more common is was less of an issue and by BR days passengers were usually told to move to a suitable coach (without any help with luggage). Indeed I used to get an HST from Gloucester to London as we approached Stonehouse the announcer warned access to the platform was from only the two rear coaches. 

Quite the shortest platform I have ever used was a Hendy on the TalyLlyn  a short bit of hard surface about 6ft long! There was room for the two of us and two dogs to all stand on at once.

 

Don

 

That is helpful, thanks.  One of the details I have to consider is that of a platform extension.

 

The two station buildings that most influence the design are Alston and Wateringbury.  In both cases, the original 1850s buildings were extended (in the same styles), and it is appropriate to consider that this was also the case for CA.

 

I also think that the platform would originally have been shorter.  There are plenty of examples, not least in Norfolk/East Anglia, of wooden platform extensions, and I have this in mind for CA.

 

I am supposing, then, a masonry platform of the 1850s, perhaps as little as 18" above rail height and with red-brick walls and  rounded/bullnose blues for the edges.  The extension, to the full 338', would be wooden.  One decision, then, is how long to make the original masonry platform?

 

I think that the train shed is likely to be 18", or 115 scale feet.

 

Another decision, as I mention, will be the placing of the cattle dock.

 

None of this will stop me laying the track, however.  the important immediate task is to determine the exact length and course of the three sidings, which I think that I have more or less done.      

[Nearholmer]

Young Mister Bradshaw gallantly offers to render any assistance that my be necessary in the matter of footnotes, which he understands Young Ladies sometimes find difficult to follow.

[Guy Rixon]

Regarding the coal siding, it's interesting (at least to my tiny mind) to consider how much coal the local merchant(s) needed for the CA catchment. My small house is still heated by solid fuel, or at least it was until the boiler broke down, mutter, mutter. We used to buy about 250kg a month. One might guess that a family being careful with their budget would get by on less, so perhaps a ton of coal supplies 8 households for a month, or 240 households for a day. Therefore, a wagon holding 8 tons would do 1,920 households for a day.

 

I forget how many people are supplied from CA station - it's probably somewhere in this thread but 309 pages so I'm not re-reading all of it - but it sounds to me like the merchants might go through at most a handful of wagons per day and probably less. The question then is how often does the coal arrive and do the merchants store it in the wagons or off-load it? Also, are there industries needing steam coal, and is there a gasworks?

[Nearholmer]

The old ready-reckoner used by merchants was, I think, 1cwt per domestic chimney per week in winter, which makes one wagon containing 8 tons cover 160 families for a week, or 1120 families for a day, if we assume only one chimney per family. Not radically different from your estimate, Guy, given the approximation involved.

 

I well recall the weekly ritual of Big Ben, our coalman, delivering the 1cwt, and the special stocking-up with extra when the youngest of my brothers was born, at home, and two fires had to be kept going.

[Edwardian]

Regarding the coal siding, it's interesting (at least to my tiny mind) to consider how much coal the local merchant(s) needed for the CA catchment. My small house is still heated by solid fuel, or at least it was until the boiler broke down, mutter, mutter. We used to buy about 250kg a month. One might guess that a family being careful with their budget would get by on less, so perhaps a ton of coal supplies 8 households for a month, or 240 households for a day. Therefore, a wagon holding 8 tons would do 1,920 households for a day.

 

I forget how many people are supplied from CA station - it's probably somewhere in this thread but 309 pages so I'm not re-reading all of it - but it sounds to me like the merchants might go through at most a handful of wagons per day and probably less. The question then is how often does the coal arrive and do the merchants store it in the wagons or off-load it? Also, are there industries needing steam coal, and is there a gasworks?

 

If we suppose that Castle Aching is broadly equivalent to Castle Acre, we find it a very modest place indeed.  The population of Castle Acre in 1901 was 1,123.  Castle Rising was 308.

 

However, Castle Aching, which combines the two, has a railway and that is likely to have caused some rise in population and industry.

 

I have resisted the idea of a gas works; Achingham, a larger place, will have a gas works.  It also has a large maltings. Arrangements are such that coal and goods fro Achingham has to come into CA first - you need to reverse from CA to the Achingham branch.  Largely because this makes no sense, but keeps the layout busy.

 

Castle Aching does have a small brewery and an agricultural engineers/foundry.

 

Feels like one of those convoluted maths problems with which they tax my daughter. 

[Guy Rixon]

Soooo... say 2000 souls in CA and perhaps the same again in the surrounding area served by the railhead? (Hands waving frantically here...) Families were bigger then, so I would guess no more than 1000 houses for the 4000 people. Sounds like 1 and a bit wagons per day for the house coal. Perhaps another wagon for the small industries, since it will be a different kind of coal. If the coal arrives weekly then maybe 15 wagons standing at a time: maximum. If coal arrives three times per week, then 5 wagons standing. And that's in the winter.

 

I think 19 wagon spaces in the coal siding is quite generous, unless the feed merchant is using all the space.

 

In passing, if the feed merchant's dock is at the end of the coal siding, then it would gum things up a little to have the coal merchant(s) using their wagons as mobile bunkers on the same siding. When the branch trip comes to shunt the feed merchant's traffic the coal wagons had better be ready to move. No good having them immobile with the doors propped and the half the load shovelled onto the doors ready for bagging up. This may be a justification for the cliched sleeper-built coal pens.

[Compound2632]

Stroud, Glos., with a population of nearly 12,000 in 1894, provided enough business for a dozen or so coal merchants. Their operations (and fleets of wagons) varied in size but could one make a rough guess of one merchant per 1,000 inhabitants? Of course this is for the town plus surrounding area.

[Caley Jim]

In passing, if the feed merchant's dock is at the end of the coal siding, then it would gum things up a little to have the coal merchant(s) using their wagons as mobile bunkers on the same siding........

I would assume that if they did that the WNR would charge them demurrage if they were their wagons. Of course, the merchants could be using their own wagons. I'm not sure what the situation was with colliery wagons, but I would think that there would be some sort of disincentive to prevent the merchants holding on to them and so keeping them out of revenue earning service.

Jim

[webbcompound]

 If the coal arrives weekly then maybe 15 wagons standing at a time: maximum. If coal arrives three times per week, then 5 wagons standing. And that's in the winter.

 

 (cant seem to put my comment below outside the quote box!)

 

COMMENT: Since all the cooking was done on the range I doubt there was much difference between winter and the rest of the year