Castle Aching

[wagonman]

So do I. I sometimes feel that the non-Ring works are a little bit overlooked though. Flying Dutchman is a favourite, while the Pilgrim's Chorus was my Grade 5 trombone test piece...

 

 

Was it not Mark Twain who declared that "Wagner's music is better than it sounds"?                                                                            

Edited October 28, 2018 by wagonman

[Regularity]

Was it not Mark Twain who declared that "Wagner's music is better than it sounds"?

 

And Wilde who liked it because it was so loud, one could talk through it without being noticed.

[Compound2632]

A good selection of cheap jibes about Wagner here but none can beat Johannes Brahms, when asked if he was enthusiastic about Wagner: "Oh yes, I listen to as much as I can, which is generally about a quarter of an hour". 

 

Then there's the story about the man who went to a performance of Parsifal. I t began at 5pm. He sat there for five hours then looked at his watch: it was 5:15. 

[Edwardian]

Are they bigger or smaller than 4mm scale? Use them to aid your forced perspective.

 

Bigger ...

[Northroader]

Garden railway it is, then.

[Andy Kirkham]

A good selection of cheap jibes about Wagner here but none can beat Johannes Brahms, when asked if he was enthusiastic about Wagner: "Oh yes, I listen to as much as I can, which is generally about a quarter of an hour". 

 

Then there's the story about the man who went to a performance of Parsifal. I t began at 5pm. He sat there for five hours then looked at his watch: it was 5:15. 

The diarist James Lees-Milne recorded an occasion when he attended a performance of Parsifal with friends. "When will it ever end?" lamented one of them after an hour or two; "when will it ever begin?" responded another.

 

However I wouldn't want to come across as anti-Wagner. Opera is not one of my greatest enthusiasms but I've seen The Ring twice. I was enthralled and found that the time seemed to pass much more quickly than indicated by the clock. However I don't think of The Ring like normal opera; to me it is a sequence of gigantic symphonies which happen to have vocal accompaniment. It's the stupendous orchestral sound that is the main appeal for me.

 

I admit I've not explored Wagner beyond The Ring. I did once buy a ticket for Parsifal but got the starting time wrong and was told I'd be admitted for the second act. So i went for a burger at McDonalds and returned to the theatre to find I'd mistaken the time of the second act as well. I reckoned Fate had not intended me to see Parsifal and went home.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Andy Kirkham

[Compound2632]

I admit I've not explored Wagner beyond The Ring. 

 

Try Humperdinck's Hansel und Gretel - Wagner for grown-ups.

[Regularity]

A good selection of cheap jibes about Wagner here but none can beat Johannes Brahms, when asked if he was enthusiastic about Wagner: "Oh yes, I listen to as much as I can, which is generally about a quarter of an hour".

 

Then there's the story about the man who went to a performance of Parsifal. I t began at 5pm. He sat there for five hours then looked at his watch: it was 5:15.

 

I feel the same when attempting to read Dickens...

Bigger ...

Yep. S scale.

Owd Bob kindly passed on these figures from the Days Gone diecast range.  They are to no useful scale, but full of character. 

I won’t take affront at your remark about not being to any useful scale. Edited October 28, 2018 by Regularity

[Regularity]

I admit I've not explored Wagner beyond The Ring. I did once buy a ticket for Parsifal but got the starting time wrong and was told I'd be admitted for the second act.

Admitted? Seems a bit harsh.

I know that opera isn’t for everyone, and Wagnerian opera maybe even less so, but being detained under the Mental Health Act for wanting to see it strikes me as coming a bit strong.

[Edwardian]

S scale. .... not being to any useful scale.

 

Struggling to spot the contradiction there .

 

Actually, in all fairness, probably the scale for those with world enough and time.

 

Perhaps Captain Blackadder should have the last word on Wagner?

 

"... the Teutonic reputation for brutality is well-founded: their operas last three or four days ..."

[Compound2632]

Perhaps Captain Blackadder should have the last word on Wagner?

 

"... the Teutonic reputation for brutality is well-founded: their operas last three or four days ..."

 

Mrs Compound does say that the very best bit of the Ring is the closing bars, though she does also say that you only really get the full effect after sitting through the previous 16 hours...

[Regularity]

Struggling to spot the contradiction there.

Well, to me it’s a contradiction.

 

If it was to a scale nobody used at all, say 1:58, that would not be a useful scale.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Regularity

[Edwardian]

Mrs Compound does say that the very best bit of the Ring is the closing bars, though she does also say that you only really get the full effect after sitting through the previous 16 hours...

 

I'm with her there. If  you have just sat through it, the sense of resolution achieved by those last bars is profound.

[Annie]

 

 

S scale. .... not being to any useful scale.

I worked in 'S' scale for a while.  The models I made always looked marvellous, but it was like a more extreme form of P4, but without time off for good behaviour.

[Regularity]

I worked in 'S' scale for a while.  The models I made always looked marvellous, but it was like a more extreme form of P4, but without time off for good behaviour.

Question of attitude: I view it as akin to EM fine, but with more space between the wheels for things like mechanisms.

And who needs time off from from something as rewarding as doing it yourself?

[Edwardian]

I'm with her there. If  you have just sat through it, the sense of resolution achieved by those last bars is profound.

 

For the benefit of Adams, I did mean "resolution", not "relief", honest!

 

 

I worked in 'S' scale for a while.  The models I made always looked marvellous, but it was like a more extreme form of P4, but without time off for good behaviour.

 

 

Of course, you never see bad S Scale, because you've got to be good to do it at all. I love what I've seen and it is a very attractive scale, with a greater sense of presence that you can achieve in 4mm, without having to go up to 7mm.

 

Given how I struggle as it is in OO, it would be a madness too far for me, but I do love the idea of the last true modeller's scale.  

[Annie]

Question of attitude: I view it as akin to EM fine, but with more space between the wheels for things like mechanisms.

And who needs time off from from something as rewarding as doing it yourself?

My comment was entirely tongue in cheek and not really serious.  I was building very small 19th century locomotives so for that 'S' was ideal, but it meant that everything except motors gears and wheels had to be made by hand.  I used Sharman P4 wheels back then and found them to be very good.  However my life took a bad turn around this time as I entered into what was to become a 12 year abusive marriage from hell.  One of my ex's favourite tricks was to throw my models in the bin.  I did think about shooting him a couple of times and burying him in the swamp, but I was always worried that I'd end up with my kids taken off me should I be found out.  By the time I crawled my way out of that I wanted something a lot more simple and took to coarse scale 'O' gauge instead.

 

Black dogs? - Oh yes been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

[Nearholmer]

American Flyer coarse-S can be pretty ‘bad’, or great fun, depending upon your viewpoint. Bassett Lowke got as far as having prototype componenents and coaches for a British sort of S gauge system, then spotted how bad an idea it was.

 

EDIT: It was Hornby/Meccano, not B-L, see p572.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Regularity]

American Flyer coarse-S can be pretty ‘bad’, or great fun, depending upon your viewpoint. Bassett Lowke got as far as having prototype componenents and coaches for a British sort of S gauge system, then spotted how bad an idea it was.

I knew about Palitoy doing this, but not Bassett Lowke.

Can you point me to a reference: we could add this to the SSMRS website?

[Regularity]

My comment was entirely tongue in cheek and not really serious.

 

Oh, I realised that: I was being similarly jocular.

  I was building very small 19th century locomotives so for that 'S' was ideal, but it meant that everything except motors gears and wheels had to be made by hand.

 

Would have been true of 4mm scale, at least back then.

Of course, you never see bad S Scale, because you've got to be good to do it at all.

 

You might be lucky enough to have never seen bad S scale, but what you say - whilst flattering - is definitely not true.

I can assure you that bad S scale does exist.

I love what I've seen and it is a very attractive scale, with a greater sense of presence that you can achieve in 4mm, without having to go up to 7mm.

It’s only 19% longer, so you can get 5 wagons where 6 would fit, but if you move back into the pre-WWI era, then nearly everything was shorter, and you don’t lose a lot at all.

In terms of volume and mass, though, that’s a 68% increase: substantial.

 

Given how I struggle as it is in OO, it would be a madness too far for me,

 

You do yourself a disservice.

I gave up on 00 because I was finding it too difficult. A K’s Terrier kit was the last straw. Probably not the best thing to have used as my first attempt at kit building, in hindsight, but it had everything other than paint, solder, glue and decals...

What you are doing with CA would be eminently achieveable in S. Certainly the track laying would be no different other than the beauteous and sleeper spacings. Basic rolling stock is straightforward, only locos and coaches present any great obstacle. The latter can be easily addressed with a 2D cutting machine, and the Furness J1 is already available as an S scale body (I have one) and =the chassis could also be produced. There are some EM wheels which are suitable, plus a limited range available on occasion from Alan Gibson, plus cast centres and steel tyres available from SSMRS.

 

The only reasons for not doing S scale are:

1) You aren’t prepared to build nearly everything for yourself;

2) You have left it too late to change (item 1 takes time!);

3) You have a desire for a much larger “basement empire” then you would have time for (see 1 and 2!); and

4) You are happy enough in another scale.

 

Point 4 is fair enough. The others are different ways of phrasing the same thing: would you be more satisfied with doing it yourself, even if you had less as a result?

 

but I do love the idea of the last true modeller's scale.

We muck along a lot more than many people think: hair shirts are entirely optional.

 

If you look at something like East Lynn in its original format (no quay, no Nunnstanton) then the bulk of it was completed within 17 years - including the vast majority of the stock.

OK, that period coincided with Trevor taking early retirement (he was 55 when he started it), but for a few years he continued to work part-time as a contractor for his employers. He simply has spells where he is very dedicated to the hobby and sits down and gets on with it - he would never appear on a forum! The stock carried forward from Wicken was limited in number, and some of it now sees little use.

 

Just a question of knowing what you want, and being prepared to work to get it!

 

Black dogs? - Oh yes been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

Personally, I find the pills I take to be pretty effective - as is evidenced on occasion when I forget to take them! Once a week is OK, but two or more leads to problems a few days later.

[Nearholmer]

There are photos of the very good, sort of giant Hornby Dublo or small BL ‘blood and custard’, coaches, plus drawings of the track, I think, in Fuller’s history of BL. IIRC, the track gauge was 1”, but I can’t remember the scale, it may not have been 1/64, but something close, 1/56 if it matched the track. It has all the signs of a very high quality product - pity they didn’t progress it!

 

EDIT: Photos are in HRCA 'The Hornby Collector' No.476, not Fuller's book.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Regularity]

There are photos of the very good, sort of giant Hornby Dublo or small BL ‘blood and custard’, coaches, plus drawings of the track, I think, in Fuller’s history of BL. IIRC, the track gauge was 1”, but I can’t remember the scale, it may not have been 1/64, but something close, 1/56 if it matched the track. It has all the signs of a very high quality product - pity they didn’t progress it!

Ta.

Interesting, in that the Bing 1912 catalogue of which I have a facsimile also talks of models to a gauge of “about 1 inch”, referring to the distance between the rail centres.

At the time, being the next step down from 0, it was called “00”...

 

Don’t tell DOGA!

[Nearholmer]

Yes, a few makers tried sub-0 toy sets before WW1, but the BL concept was born after WW2. Quite why, I can't fathom, in that there was already a very close relationship between BL and Trix, which gave them a "table top" product almost in their own range.

 

If you want to pursue this topic further, we should probably swap to my thread, where it would be more at home, because it has even less to do with CA than Wagner ...... possibly.

 

Incidentally (very), I too think that S is a very sensible scale. its big enough to have a bit of heft, but still not too space-greedy, and every steel rule comes with scale inches already marked on it. buildings get very big in 0, whereas at S they still seem a reasonable size, too.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Nearholmer

[CF MRC]

I’ve bored with this before, I think, but the roof on which the artist stood is at the corner of the little street in which the HQ of the MRC, Keen House, is located, and two doors behind the artist is the shop that used to be Victors, famed for US model railroad kit. And, on the street corner on the left is now the head-house of a ventilation shaft for the Victoria Line, the innards of which I led refitting of about ten years ago. And, well, there is a lot more detail of the area that I could add, but it would get even more boring!

I’ve bored with this before, I think, but the roof on which the artist stood is at the corner of the little street in which the HQ of the MRC, Keen House, is located, and two doors behind the artist is the shop that used to be Victors, famed for US model railroad kit. And, on the street corner on the left is now the head-house of a ventilation shaft for the Victoria Line, the innards of which I led refitting of about ten years ago. And, well, there is a lot more detail of the area that I could add, but it would get even more boring!

The chapel on the right is further up the Pentonville Road from Calshot St, home to the MRC and, now, also a truly massive electricity sub-station built after the style of Keen House.

 

Tim

President, The Model Railway Club.

Edited October 28, 2018 by CF MRC

[Talltim]

The chapel on the right is further up the Pentonville Road from Calshot St, home to the MRC and, now, also a truly massive electricity sub-station built after the style of Keen House.

 

Tim

President, The Model Railway Club.

That’s quite ironic, because Keen House has a kind of no-style style. It’s the sort of non-descript light industrial building that once was common in many cities, but so often now is seen derelict with smashed windows. The MRC is preserving an important and overlooked part of our architectural heritage.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Talltim