Castle Aching

[Hroth]

This was among the many family photos I inherited from my mother. I haven't a clue where it is. There is a second water-colour showing the port of Piraeus that appears to be from the same source. Whether the two are connected geographically I am also ignorant.

Water colour of a coastal communication station multi 4net.jpg

It looks like an intermediate semaphore station. The two posts ON the building are the semaphores, one mast connects to the upstream and one to the downstream.  It also has a flag mast for conveying information to adjacent shipping, which would include weather warnings, general communications to all shipping and instructions to the masters of individual ships.

 

They're not very big semaphore arms so the stations on either side must be close, probably on the crests of opposite hills.

 

An example, the Holyhead - Liverpool Semaphore Telegraph.

 

 

Built to convey shipping information to Liverpool.  Inbound ships signalled to the telegraph station to inform the owners of their ETA. 

 

 

 

An example of one of the stations in working order.

 

 

 

The station on Hilbre Island today.  Its not as big as the painting, though the situation looking out to sea in the direction of the windows would look similar!  The "eyeballs" in the window panes are weatherproof access points for telescopes.

 

 

And we're back to Bidston Hill, which is the station between Hilbre and Liverpool...

 

 

Edit for clarity

Edited January 26, 2019 by Hroth

[Guy Rixon]

These are all basic semaphores. They are the equivalent of a man waving two flags, but put up a mast for a bit more visibility. The bit-rate would remain low.

 

The fictional, Discworld towers are of another order. They have matrices of blank and white panels, to represent 0 and 1 in some binary code that the author never bothered to specify; it's a bit like the difference between a bar code and a QR code.  The panels are illuminated, so messages can be passed at night. The shutters of the panels are operated manually, but by some kind of keyboard arrangement, so the frame rate would be higher than semaphores moved by halyards.

 

All in all, the Discworld semaphore-towers are a clever idea, given a world with limited technology and no electricity. I wonder if there was ever a real-world equivalent. I suspect not, as the electric telegraph makes them obsolete and the necessary information-theory only emerged, in our world, after the telegraph was working.

 

BTW, the later Discworld novels have railways with fast trains but no electric telegraph to support block working. I wonder if Terry Pratchett ever realised how dodgy that would be.

[Hroth]

Discworld semaphore is more akin to the Murray system which had a 6x2 grid of shutters and were used in the Napoleonic War period. The Holyhead-Liverpool used the later, simplified Popham system.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_telegraph

 

I think Terry Pratchett was aware of communications on the railway. There is mention of a token system for single track lines in "Raising Steam", together with a description of an accident caused by the unauthorised duplication of tokens, and also of an adapted clacks system for regulating trains.

 

There is even discussion of the problems arising from disparity in gauge, especially concerning a railway that standardised their gauge based on the distance between the wheels on local cabbage wagons...

Edited January 26, 2019 by Hroth

[Northroader]

“Und here ve haf der zemafore zignals vich the messages go London from der Black Country are”

Herr Doktor Von Krakpott.

[Hroth]

“Und here ve haf der zemafore zignals vich the messages go London from der Black Country are”

91202FEA-D236-4323-B4BE-6C7BF70BB8E3.jpeg

Herr Doktor Von Krakpott.

Now, I forget.

 

Which one is ours?

[runs as required]

Discworld semaphore is more akin to the Murray system which had a 6x2 grid of shutters and were used in the Napoleonic War period. The Holyhead-Liverpool used the later, simplified Popham system.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_telegraph

 ...

For my Third year RIBA Intermediate I had to do a measured drawing of the Lyceum club (at the bottom of Bold St in Liverpool, over the top of L'pool Central Low Level)

The Reading Room across the west elevation looked down Church St to the signal station (from Holyhead) apparently for the merchants to check on the successful imminent return of their triangular trade slave ships.

dh

[Compound2632]

Now, I forget.

 

Which one is ours?

 

Prof. W.A. Tuplin's footplate tales are to be taken with a pinch of salt but I do recall his fireman's tale of working a down express. Approaching Rugby, the driver's instruction was to look for "four greens and forty reds"; Tuplin's hero says "I counted the greens but didn't bother to count the reds". The LMS replaced the Bedstead with a handful of route-indicator colour light signals in the 1930s - this time round, they weren't spending the Great Central's money.

[relaxinghobby]

These are all basic semaphores. They are the equivalent of a man waving two flags, but put up a mast for a bit more visibility. The bit-rate would remain low.

 

The fictional, Discworld towers are of another order. They have matrices of blank and white panels, to represent 0 and 1 in some binary code that the author never bothered to specify; it's a bit like the difference between a bar code and a QR code.  The panels are illuminated, so messages can be passed at night. The shutters of the panels are operated manually, but by some kind of keyboard arrangement, so the frame rate would be higher than semaphores moved by halyards.

 

All in all, the Discworld semaphore-towers are a clever idea, given a world with limited technology and no electricity. I wonder if there was ever a real-world equivalent. I suspect not, as the electric telegraph makes them obsolete and the necessary information-theory only emerged, in our world, after the telegraph was working.

 

BTW, the later Discworld novels have railways with fast trains but no electric telegraph to support block working. I wonder if Terry Pratchett ever realised how dodgy that would be.

There is a chain of signal flag towers between the Admiralty in London and the military port of Portsmouth, it was working back in Nelsons day. A few of the brick built towers can be seen and visited today. On hilltops in line of sight of each other. On misty days every one could take the day off?

[Hroth]

There is a chain of signal flag towers between the Admiralty in London and the military port of Portsmouth, it was working back in Nelsons day. A few of the brick built towers can be seen and visited today. On hilltops in line of sight of each other. On misty days every one could take the day off?

According to the Wikipedia article, the brick signal towers were a "permanant" system between London and Portsmouth using the Popham system and were post-Napoleonic, operating between 1820 and 1847 when the railway and electrical telegraphs took over.  The Napoeonic War telegraph used the Murray shutter system and communicated between London and several destinations, Sharpness and Deal, Great Yarmouth, Portsmouth and Plymouth. These were temporary sheds with the shutters on top, perched on existing high buildings and ground and closed down in 1816 after the Napoleonic War.

 

More info on the Napoleonic era system, describing the Dunstable station on the London-Yarmouth line.  The illustration is very reminiscent of a Clacks station, just not on a tower!

 

http://virtual-library.culturalservices.net/webingres/bedfordshire/vlib/0.digitised_resources/dunstable_article_signalling_station.htm

Edited January 26, 2019 by Hroth

[runs as required]

I seem to remember hearing during a wonderful spring day cruise around Falmouth roads some years ago (finishing up near Truro disembarking onto an open-top bus) that the news of Trafalgar was delivered ashore at Falmouth and transferred post-haste up to London.

Would that have been belt and braces - the Admiralty relying upon a variety of delivery routes and modes?

dh

[Northroader]

The messenger on the ship arriving at Falmouth would be carrying a report written by the fleet commander to go to the Admiralty, while the semaphore system would be limited to short messages.

[corneliuslundie]

Two days off line and I am lost! Can someone please telegraph me my position?

Did Terry Pratchet know about the Abermule disaster, caused by a token mixup?

And for Annie - others are also allowed to view it - another probable GER poster. Views on its authenticity welcome.

Where was the nearest GER hotel to CA? And did the WNR run any?

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

Looks genuine enough to me. I doubt the West Norfolk would have had the capital to get into the hotel business itself, though it might be encouraging others to do so at its sea-side resort - I've forgotten where this was or how big a flop. Railway Hotels are a game for the big boys:

 

 

For many years, the Midland's Hotels Manager was Mr Towell - nominative determinism in action.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Compound2632

[wagonman]

 

 

Where was the nearest GER hotel to CA? And did the WNR run any?

Jonathan

 

 

 

There was a Railway Hotel in Hunstanton, also known as the Great Eastern Hotel and possibly the Sandringham, which closed in c.1967. I would think that's the closest to the WNR.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by wagonman

[Annie]

Yay! Hunstanton.  That would also be the nearest one to my odd little GER affiliated tramways as well.  Some of my stations have Hunstanton posters because of that fact. (Even though the actual location of Windweather and Hopewood on Sea are lost in the folds in the map).

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Annie

[Annie]

Two days off line and I am lost! Can someone please telegraph me my position?

Did Terry Pratchet know about the Abermule disaster, caused by a token mixup?

And for Annie - others are also allowed to view it - another probable GER poster. Views on its authenticity welcome.

great-eastern-railway-hotels.jpg

Where was the nearest GER hotel to CA? And did the WNR run any?

Jonathan

Ooooooo very nice Jonathon.  For those of us building and running freelanced versions of GER affiliated lines what is real and what is not is of little consequence; - so for me whether this poster is authentic is not so critical.  It's certainly a fine looking poster and no doubt would have been displayed at larger stations rather than such as the stations on my little tramways, - but all the same thank you very much for posting it Jonathon for me to enjoy.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Annie

[phil_sutters]

Yay! Hunstanton.  That would also be the nearest one to my odd little GER affiliated tramways as well.  Some of my stations have Hunstanton posters because of that fact. (Even though the actual location of Windweather and Hopewood on Sea are lost in the folds in the map).

 

Trying to work out whether there is anywhere in Hunstanton that would be high enough to permit this view - and I am still not sure - I came across this website - http://www.indigogroup.co.uk/west/index.htm - anyone round here responsible for this whimsy?

Edited January 27, 2019 by phil_sutters

[Annie]

Yes I did think the poster showed a view that was a bit on the towering side for Norfolk.  I suppose that's wot you call artistic license.

 

[corneliuslundie]

The Welsh hotel entrepreneur (failed) was Thomas Savin who built Borth - more or less successful - and the hotel which became the first home of the university in Aberystwyth.

I think often the hotel business would have been a parallel company, with much the same directors as the railway but thus not risking the railway capital if the hotel business failed. This was also sometimes done with rolling stock, not so much to shelter the railway company as to deal with the fact that not enough shares in the company had been taken up and there was thus a shortage of cash. The Taff Vale Railway did this.

In fact I suspect that the poster I posted would have been seen on the other side of the Channel, aimed at attracting visitors to East Anglia. I doubt that many East Anglian farm workers were fluent in French.

Jonathan

[Hroth]

Trying to work out whether there is anywhere in Hunstanton that would be high enough to permit this view - and I am still not sure - I came across this website - http://www.indigogroup.co.uk/west/index.htm - anyone round here responsible for this whimsy?

I'm sure it's actually pretty flat, but worked as an exercise in forced perspective?

 

Or perhaps they're merely perched on one of those fabled folds of the map.....

 

 

Wanders off humming Rumptitumptitumptitumrumptitumptitumtum  (Name that tune)

[Hroth]

Yes I did think the poster showed a view that was a bit on the towering side for Norfolk.  I suppose that's wot you call artistic license.

 

 

For The Pursuit of Excellense?

 

Even Oxford Rail manages to get that right!

 

Must be American...

[St Enodoc]

This was among the many family photos I inherited from my mother. I haven't a clue where it is. There is a second water-colour showing the port of Piraeus that appears to be from the same source. Whether the two are connected geographically I am also ignorant.

Water colour of a coastal communication station multi 4net.jpg

For no particular reason, the first thing that came into my head when I saw that was Cuckmere Haven.

[drmditch]

The Welsh hotel entrepreneur (failed) was Thomas Savin who built Borth - more or less successful - and the hotel which became the first home of the university in Aberystwyth.

I think often the hotel business would have been a parallel company, with much the same directors as the railway but thus not risking the railway capital if the hotel business failed. This was also sometimes done with rolling stock, not so much to shelter the railway company as to deal with the fact that not enough shares in the company had been taken up and there was thus a shortage of cash. The Taff Vale Railway did this.

In fact I suspect that the poster I posted would have been seen on the other side of the Channel, aimed at attracting visitors to East Anglia. I doubt that many East Anglian farm workers were fluent in French.

Jonathan

 

I doubt that many East Anglian farm workers could afford a stay in any hotel!

Edited January 27, 2019 by drmditch

[Annie]

 

 

 

In fact I suspect that the poster I posted would have been seen on the other side of the Channel, aimed at attracting visitors to East Anglia. I doubt that many East Anglian farm workers were fluent in French.

Jonathan

I'm sure that when I last looked at that poster it was in English.  Bloody Timelords dropping in and changing things again without a by your leave............

 

 

For The Pursuit of Excellense?

 

Even Oxford Rail manages to get that right!

 

Must be American...

I think that is a deliberate mistake in order to convey the idea that 'Excellence' might be a stranger to the whole process of creation.

[Hroth]

.......

I think that is a deliberate mistake in order to convey the idea that 'Excellence' might be a stranger to the whole process of creation.

 

I'd like to think so, but...