Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

I think the Met got into strange shapes because they needed tank engines with lots of coal and water capacity, the "bunker" being for both.

 

Quite why the H wasn't simply an Atlantic tank with longer tanks, like nearly everyone else's, I'm not really sure; maybe they were like Hornby, who made oodles of clockwork 4-4-4T because they are the same going backwards as they are forwards!

 

The SECR had a lot of ugly 0-6-4T, J Class, for heavy suburban passenger work, being a sort of extension of their H 0-4-4T, because they were too skint to electrify.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Nearholmer

[webbcompound]

The Wirral Railway had some nice 0-6-4Ts, but also there is ugly, and there is Mersey Railway ugly

[Hroth]

31 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

The Wirral Railway had some nice 0-6-4Ts, but also there is ugly, and there is Mersey Railway ugly

 

But the best thing about the Mersey Railway Thug class was that bystanders would only catch glimpses of them at Birkenhead Park, where they would play swapsies with the Wirral Railway, and at Rock Ferry to meet trains from Woodside. The rest of the time they were in the deep smog of the tunnel between the Wirral and Liverpool.  But they had to be mean machines because of the 1 in 27 gradient between the tunnel bottom under the Mersey and James Street station.

 

Anyhow, be nice about them, they were Beyer Peacocks.....

 

 

 

[RedGemAlchemist]

50 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

The Wirral Railway had some nice 0-6-4Ts, but also there is ugly, and there is Mersey Railway ugly

It's not ugly, it's built for purpose

[Buhar]

5 minutes ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

It's not ugly, it's built for purpose

The principal purpose of the Mersey Railway seems to have been to impoverish investors and not always carelessly.

[sem34090]

I like them.

 

Shoot me if you like, but I like them!

[Dave John]

Hmm, I like condensing engines too. 

 

Getting ahead of myself again. I am currently building a bus. Er, to put on a bridge. But there is a box in which parts for a condensing tank are accumulating. 

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Edwardian politics: 

 

 

 

 

WC: I say LG!!! why did you pick the day I'd just bought a new topper to wear your new topper.

 

LG: Because I know you are after my job young fellow!! 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Malcolm 0-6-0

[Edwardian]

10 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

 

But please let's keep off current politics,

 

I'm sure I don't know what you mean!

 

Going to Hell in a handcart is a very old concern .... 

 

[Compound2632]

Most of these 0-6-4Ts are pretty brutish-looking machines, all hunched shoulders and forward leaning go-get'em expression. Just to show that Beyer Peacock could do spindly too, here's another irish example - Sligo, Leitrim & Northern Counties Fermanagh class Lissadell.

[Bill_J]

Edwardian politics:

 

They've even got the omnibus.

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Bill_J

[Edwardian]

9 hours ago, webbcompound said:

The Wirral Railway had some nice 0-6-4Ts, but also there is ugly, and there is Mersey Railway ugly

 

Sadly, I imagine that the axle-loading would be too great for my Norfolk lines.  IIRC, the Mersey's equipment was disposed of round about the right time.

[Nearholmer]

It was. They got a cheap package-deal on electrification, because the American supplier wanted to open-up the British market in readiness for their new British factory coming into production, and sold all (but one?) of their steamers.

 

”British Westinghouse was located at Trafford Park, Manchester from 10 July 1899 to 8 September 1919. George Westinghouse's ambitions for his British enterprise were to prove to be greater than was justified by the market and the large Trafford Park factory did not operate at full capacity until WWI started.”

Edited July 27, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

Extract from Mersey Railway article in Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersey_Railway

 

Steam Locomotives

 

For the opening of the line, eight powerful 0-6-4 tank locomotives were obtained from Beyer, Peacock and Company, fitted with condensing apparatus for working in the tunnel. Designated as Class I, a ninth followed within six months. Beyer Peacock also built six 2-6-2T tank locomotives in 1887 (Class II) and three further 2-6-2T (Class III) were built by Kitson and Company in 1892.

 

The 0-6-4Ts were built with steam and vacuum brakes and steam reversing gear and weighed 67 long tons (68 t). The 2-6-2Ts were fitted with vacuum brakes only; those built by Beyer weighed 62 1⁄2 long tons (63.5 t) and Kitson's 67 1⁄2 long tons (68.6 t).

 

As electrification progressed, the old rolling stock was advertised for sale. An attempt to sell the 18 locomotives and 96 carriages by auction in June 1903 proved completely unsuccessful – the auctioneer had to remind the bidders that he was not selling scrap. It was September before the first locomotive was sold; it would take another two years to sell all-bar-one of the locomotives. The last locomotive — which had been retained for working permanent way trains — was sold in January 1908.

 

The first to be sold was No. 5 Cecil Raikes, which was bought by Shipley Collieries for £750 (equivalent to £79,107 in 2018).[20] They came back and bought No. 8 for £650; but not before Alexandra (Newport and South Wales) Docks and Railway had bought all six of the Class II locomotives for £3450 (equivalent to £365,117 in 2018).They became ADR 6–11 (not in order). Alexandra Docks later bought four more locomotives: Three 0-6-4T (nos. 2, 3 & 6), and one Class III 2-6-2T (no. 16), these becoming 24–22 and 25. All ten ADR locomotives passed to the Great Western Railway in January 1922, and were withdrawn between January 1923 and May 1932.

 

The other two Class III locomotives were bought by Whitwood Colliery for £1240.

 

The last four locomotives (nos. 1, 7, 9 and 4)[43] were sold to J. & A. Brown Limited (as their Nos. 5–8) for use on the Richmond Vale railway line in New South Wales, Australia. No. 4 Gladstone had been retained by the Mersey Railway until 1907 for departmental use, but was then replaced by Metropolitan Railway A Class (4-4-0T) No. 61, built by Beyer Peacock. This was replaced in 1927 by an earlier Metropolitan Railway 4-4-0T, No. 7.

 

Two of the Class I locomotive have been preserved: No. 5 Cecil Raikes is preserved at the Museum of Liverpool; and no. 1 The Major is preserved at the New South Wales Rail Transport Museum, Thirlmere, New South Wales.

 

 

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

Well, I'll leave you to judge the extent to which Edwardian politics is a 'safe zone'.

 

They had suffragists and the violent suffragettes.  We still have equality issues of all kinds prominent on the political agenda. 

 

What was, when I was growing up and pre-Momentum, a rather old-fashioned socialist critique of capitalism, was in full stride. 

 

The Liberal 1909 budget laid the first foundations for the welfare state. The Daily Mail petitioned for its rejection, plus ça change. Today the crisis in social care and fears for the safety and sustainability of the NHS are political pre-occupations.

 

The situation of Ireland appeared intractable, with mutiny and pending civil war before the Great War.  Threats to the Union and to peace in Northern Ireland are now increasingly spoken of.

 

Traditional bogeymen are coming back into fashion, plus a few new ones.   

 

Etc, etc. 

 

I take the point that even cryptic quips might be divisive in the context of an increasingly polarised debate.

 

Honest people of good will may be found on all sides; for the sake of the country they need to come together, resist the fanatics and throw out the bounders and charlatans. 

 

Again, you can fill in your own blanks, as it really doesn't matter who you put upon the list, they'd none of them be missed ...

 

On 27/07/2019 at 08:08, Hroth said:

Extract from Mersey Railway article in Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersey_Railway

 

Steam Locomotives

 

For the opening of the line, eight powerful 0-6-4 tank locomotives were obtained from Beyer, Peacock and Company, fitted with condensing apparatus for working in the tunnel. Designated as Class I, a ninth followed within six months. Beyer Peacock also built six 2-6-2T tank locomotives in 1887 (Class II) and three further 2-6-2T (Class III) were built by Kitson and Company in 1892.

 

The 0-6-4Ts were built with steam and vacuum brakes and steam reversing gear and weighed 67 long tons (68 t). The 2-6-2Ts were fitted with vacuum brakes only; those built by Beyer weighed 62 1⁄2 long tons (63.5 t) and Kitson's 67 1⁄2 long tons (68.6 t).

 

As electrification progressed, the old rolling stock was advertised for sale. An attempt to sell the 18 locomotives and 96 carriages by auction in June 1903 proved completely unsuccessful – the auctioneer had to remind the bidders that he was not selling scrap. It was September before the first locomotive was sold; it would take another two years to sell all-bar-one of the locomotives. The last locomotive — which had been retained for working permanent way trains — was sold in January 1908.

 

The first to be sold was No. 5 Cecil Raikes, which was bought by Shipley Collieries for £750 (equivalent to £79,107 in 2018).[20] They came back and bought No. 8 for £650; but not before Alexandra (Newport and South Wales) Docks and Railway had bought all six of the Class II locomotives for £3450 (equivalent to £365,117 in 2018).They became ADR 6–11 (not in order). Alexandra Docks later bought four more locomotives: Three 0-6-4T (nos. 2, 3 & 6), and one Class III 2-6-2T (no. 16), these becoming 24–22 and 25. All ten ADR locomotives passed to the Great Western Railway in January 1922, and were withdrawn between January 1923 and May 1932.

 

The other two Class III locomotives were bought by Whitwood Colliery for £1240.

 

The last four locomotives (nos. 1, 7, 9 and 4)[43] were sold to J. & A. Brown Limited (as their Nos. 5–8) for use on the Richmond Vale railway line in New South Wales, Australia. No. 4 Gladstone had been retained by the Mersey Railway until 1907 for departmental use, but was then replaced by Metropolitan Railway A Class (4-4-0T) No. 61, built by Beyer Peacock. This was replaced in 1927 by an earlier Metropolitan Railway 4-4-0T, No. 7.

 

Two of the Class I locomotive have been preserved: No. 5 Cecil Raikes is preserved at the Museum of Liverpool; and no. 1 The Major is preserved at the New South Wales Rail Transport Museum, Thirlmere, New South Wales.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, that is very helpful.   Some of those big ugly tanks would look well on the Norfolk Minerals, but I have too much planned stock as it is! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Edwardian
spelling!

[wagonman]

17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Edwardian politics: 

 

 

 

 

Would you buy a used horseless carriage from either of these two 'charlatans'?

Edited July 27, 2019 by wagonman

[Argos]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Most of these 0-6-4Ts are pretty brutish-looking machines, all hunched shoulders and forward leaning go-get'em expression. Just to show that Beyer Peacock could do spindly too, here's another irish example - Sligo, Leitrim & Northern Counties Fermanagh class Lissadell.

 

One of which will be appearing on my work bench in the not too distant future.

The Leitrim class were firmly Victorian engines though with first pair delivered in 1882 the last in 1889.

 

The SLNCR seemed to like the 0-6-4t long boiler format and a series of three more modern engines were delivered between 1904 and 1917, known as the "Sir Henry" class

 

Finally a later pair of 0-6-4t engines forming the "Lough" class were leased from Beyer Peacock in the early fifties.

They were actually built in 1949 but the SLNCR was skint and couldn't pay for them.

After having them lying around for a couple of years Beyer Peacock agreed to to lease them to the line.

 

 

These were the last steam locos built for any Irish railway, all the more bizarre that they are based on a long boiler design from the mid 1800s.

 

The SLNCR still falls into the Pre-grouping category in the 1950s (in spirit at least) as it one of the few lines in the UK and Ireland  that never was grouped or merged throughout its history due to the line spanning the Irish border.

 

I have a penchant for 0-6-4 tanks that I have never quite understood the North Staffs Railway new F class being another favourite.

 

 

I am also a fan of the Midland Railway's flat iron (just don't tell Compound2632........)

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Argos

[RedGemAlchemist]

5 minutes ago, Argos said:

 

One of which will be appearing on my work bench in the not too distant future.

The Leitrim class were firmly Victorian engines though with first pair delivered in 1882 the last in 1889.

 

The SLNCR seemed to like the 0-6-4t long boiler format and a series of three more modern engines were delivered between 1904 and 1917, known as the "Sir Henry" class

 

Finally a later pair of 0-6-4t engines forming the "Lough" class were leased from Beyer Peacock in the early fifties.

They were actually built in 1949 but the SLNCR was skint and couldn't pay for them.

After having them lying around for a couple of years Beyer Peacock agreed to to lease them to the line.

 

 

These were the last steam locos built for any Irish railway, all the more bizarre that they are based on a long boiler design from the mid 1800s.

 

The SLNCR still falls into the Pre-grouping category in the 1950s (in spirit at least) as it one of the few lines in the UK and Ireland  that never was grouped or merged throughout its history due to the line spanning the Irish border.

 

I have a penchant for 0-6-4 tanks that I have never quite understood the North Staffs Railway new F class being another favourite.

 

 

I am also a fan of the Midland Railway's flat iron (just don't tell Compound2632........)

Stop! You're making me want a 0-6-4T now! 

[Compound2632]

41 minutes ago, Argos said:

I have a penchant for 0-6-4 tanks that I have never quite understood the North Staffs Railway new F class being another favourite.

 

I am also a fan of the Midland Railway's flat iron (just don't tell Compound2632........)

 

 

That North Staffs engine does seem to have a lot in common with the Met G class.

 

The Midland 2000 Class look a bit pedestrian in comparison, but nevertheless:

 

 

... building up my skills towards! 

 

For my c. 1922 option.

[BlueLightning]

25 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

... building up my skills towards! 

 

I have no doubt's that you could manage that Stephen!! No building up of skills needed! (SEF chassis build on stream this week )

 

Gary

[Compound2632]

21 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

I have no doubt's that you could manage that Stephen!! No building up of skills needed! (SEF chassis build on stream this week )

 

Gary

 

Thanks - indeed, watching your Marsh I3 build has been getting my courage up!

[BlueLightning]

Glad to have helped! hopefully you can see how easy the chassis are this week, and then be confident to get on. The I3 is actually one of the more complicated chassis that he does, so it should be good "fun".

 

Gary

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

16 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Honest people of good will may be found on all sides; for the sake of the country they need to come together, resist the fanatics and throw out the bounders and charletons. 

 

 

 

 

What? Has the Prince of Wales created a new political party?

 

Is this to be a rerun of the 45?

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

What? Has the Prince of Wales created a new political party?

 

Is this to be a rerun of the 45?

Lets just pretend that we're discussing gauge 1....... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_gauge

 

Definitely an Edwardian railway!

 

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

 

What? Has the Prince of Wales created a new political party?

 

 

It's a superheated experiment.

 

 

Georgian, not Edwardian. And the Prince in question was controversial enough in the end.

 

There was an Experiment named Prince of Wales, No.1676 of 1906 - named for the future George V - renamed Shakespeare to make way for No. 819. Before that, a Problem No. 291 of 1862; he took the name and number of an Odin class 6ft 2-2-2 of 1852 - both of these being named for Bertie, of course.

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Compound2632