Hornby's financial updates to the Stock Market

[Chamby]

I would like to know who thinks up an advertising algorithm that targets me to buy something I have just bought. Do they really think I want another one so soon.

Social media is the same, as soon as you show a passing interest in anything you are inundated with the subject, forcng you to spend time trying to turn it off in future.

Rob

 

It's what I used to know as affirmative marketing, though that term has come to mean something else these days.

 

Basically, you get targeted with marketing for a product after you have already made the purchase because it is supposed to make you feel good about it.  You have just bought something that is current and desirable, that is being brought to the attention of other people - which makes you the cool guy.  'Yay I've got one of those already' (Smug).

 

Sad, but true.  

[RAF96]

It doesn't make me feel good at all, just peed off.

Also who would get brought to their attention the information that I had bought any such product apart from me.

Numbnuts marketing in my view.

Rob

[MarkSG]

It doesn't make me feel good at all, just peed off.

Also who would get brought to their attention the information that I had bought any such product apart from me.

Numbnuts marketing in my view.

Rob

 

Statistically it's proven to work overall. The fact that it doesn't work on you says nothing about the system, it merely demonstrates that you are in a minority.

[davidw]

Well, for one thing, the earlier Princess Coronations, e.g City of Nottingham, struggled to move 6 coaches. SWS has no problem walking away with whatever I put behind it. It is currently on a 30+ van fitted freight.. no problem!

I just wish for a Hornby 'full-fat' V2, to the standard of the A3!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

I didn't know the performance was that poor.

[Legend]

I didn't know the performance was that poor.

I think it varies quite a lot within a batch. My City of Nottingham will romp off with 8 on my layout without issue, whereas what I thought would be similar , the Princess Margaret Rose can just cope with 5 . Then again it depends if heavy Bachmann Mk1s or the much lighter Railroad Mk1s , so there is a lot of factors involved here.

[Silver Sidelines]

I have to agree

I think it varies quite a lot within a batch...

Quality control again...without going over old ground quite simple details like all the wheels not being equally in contact with the rails - not just chassis problems but simple things like the front bogie propping up the front of the engine so that the front driving wheels are lifted off the track.

 

Ray

[Legend]

I have to agree

 

Quality control again...without going over old ground quite simple details like all the wheels not being equally in contact with the rails - not just chassis problems but simple things like the front bogie propping up the front of the engine so that the front driving wheels are lifted off the track.

 

Ray

Yes there’s a definite lack of consistency. I have checked the front bogie springing .

[Chuffed 1]

Going back to the subject of the thread, I wonder what the return of Simon Kohler will mean for Hornby? Will it be The Return Of Design Clever?

 

Also pertinent is the state of the competition.  Five years ago, it might be seen as a two-horse race.  Not any more. With DJM and Oxford joining Dapol and Heljan, and Bachmann no longer pre-eminent, we're now seeing 'guerilla' product marketing eating away at the overall market. 

 

Too many fish and not enough plankton?

[dibber25]

Going back to the subject of the thread, I wonder what the return of Simon Kohler will mean for Hornby? Will it be The Return Of Design Clever?

 

Also pertinent is the state of the competition.  Five years ago, it might be seen as a two-horse race.  Not any more. With DJM and Oxford joining Dapol and Heljan, and Bachmann no longer pre-eminent, we're now seeing 'guerilla' product marketing eating away at the overall market. 

 

Too many fish and not enough plankton?

 

It's difficult to imagine that any individual was responsible for design clever. Hornby is a company and such things are decided in meetings of various groups of people. One imagines the finance and design departments had rather more to do with it than Simon did. Simon didn't make company policy, he was only responsible for presenting it to the public. Looks like one thing that is back is the e-word, though. I just hope no mags get printed early......... (CJL)

Edited January 5, 2018 by dibber25

[Legend]

Design clever wasn’t a bad idea. Announcing it was. Companies should consider better more efficient ways of making things all the time especially if it’s less expensive to make .mine does it. It’s called Continuous Improvement. The thing is to decide what’s acceptable to the customer. There’s a debate elsewhere on moulded handrails on Bachmanns forthcoming class 90 . If they look the part and it keeps costs down I have no problem with it. Similarly the 2 Bil with moulded roof pipes , door handles etc was absolutely fine . On the other hand if it’s obvious and looks stupid , and as previously suggested , the Star cab handrails is certainly in that category , smoke box darts is another one, then it’s a compromise too far .

 

I really don’t know the scope of a Marketing Manager in Hornby, but from previous blogs it looks like suggesting what locos to make is a big part of it eg Simon Kohlers blog on introduction of Clan Line , where he deservedly takes the plaudits for suggesting Hornbys first super detail model. So I would have thought he would at least have a view on the final form of other suggested locos and say whats acceptable and what isn’t. For a long time (until Engine Shed) he seemed to be the main interaction between Hornby and it’s market, whether that’s magazines or the end consumer, so he really should know what will go down well and what will cause howls of outrage ( in context that is, it’s a hobby for most of us after all )

 

I don’t hold with finance departments or constraints being responsible . Yes finance depts want the item made as cheaply and efficiently as possible , but they are not so daft that they don’t recognise that producing a compromised product will restrict sales and ultimately recover less money for their company. In crude terms they want more bang for their buck. Similarly we’ve seen the great products the design department have come up with, not a moulded cab rail in sight.

 

At the end of the day the proof of the pudding is in the eating , so let’s see what comes out on Monday and hope that Hornby is on the road to recovery, even though in communications, at least, it seems to have reverted to the position 5 years ago and doesn’t seem to have recognised the success direct communications with its market that it had most recently

 

As to mags receiving details of new range, it of course makes sense to get its news into as many mags as possible, as long as we can all start talking about it as soon as the mag is published. Let’s just hope they recognise the success of Warley and Engine Shed announcements throughout the year .

Edited January 5, 2018 by Legend

[dogbox321]

2018's Range will be either Hornby's 'make or break' moment. 

 

Perhaps there were plans to announce at Warley etc., but with the New Management etc., they have altered their plans - whether that means adding or reducing the range, who knows.  But hopefully it will be well thought out i.e. Not lacking core items to compliment other products - such as no initial plan to produce a MK3 1st in GWR!  Added to that, Hornby need to address the previously mentioned quality issues that have affected some models, as nothing is in the bracket of 'a cheap toy' any more!

 

As per anything - talk is cheap, Hornby will be judged on its actions, and a key part of this is 2018's product launch....lets see what happens. 

 

Regards,

[Chamby]

Design clever wasn’t a bad idea. Announcing it was. Companies should consider better more efficient ways of making things all the time especially if it’s less expensive to make .mine does it. It’s called Continuous Improvement. The thing is to decide what’s acceptable to the customer. There’s a debate elsewhere on moulded handrails on Bachmanns forthcoming class 90 . If they look the part and it keeps costs down I have no problem with it. Similarly the 2 Bil with moulded roof pipes , door handles etc was absolutely fine . On the other hand if it’s obvious and looks stupid , and as previously suggested , the Star cab handrails is certainly in that category , smoke box darts is another one, then it’s a compromise too far .

I really don’t know the scope of a Marketing Manager in Hornby, but from previous blogs it looks like suggesting what locos to make is a big part of it eg Simon Kohlers blog on introduction of Clan Line , where he deservedly takes the plaudits for suggesting Hornbys first super detail model. So I would have thought he would at least have a view on the final form of other suggested locos and say whats acceptable and what isn’t. For a long time (until Engine Shed) he seemed to be the main interaction between Hornby and it’s market, whether that’s magazines or the end consumer, so he really should know what will go down well and what will cause howls of outrage ( in context that is, it’s a hobby for most of us after all )

I don’t hold with finance departments or constraints being responsible . Yes finance depts want the item made as cheaply and efficiently as possible , but they are not so daft that they don’t recognise that producing a compromised product will restrict sales and ultimately recover less money for their company. In crude terms they want more bang for their buck. Similarly we’ve seen the great products the design department have come up with, not a moulded cab rail in sight.

At the end of the day the proof of the pudding is in the eating , so let’s see what comes out on Monday and hope that Hornby is on the road to recovery, even though in communications, at least, it seems to have reverted to the position 5 years ago and doesn’t seem to have recognised the success direct communications with its market that it had most recently

As to mags receiving details of new range, it of course makes sense to get its news into as many mags as possible, as long as we can all start talking about it as soon as the mag is published. Let’s just hope they recognise the success of Warley and Engine Shed announcements throughout the year .

I think we’ll start to see more of how Hornby is going to interact with their customers after next weeks announcement. A period of internal focus was inevitable after the Oxford tie-up, let’s hope that Monday is the start of better things.

[Ozexpatriate]

2018's Range will be either Hornby's 'make or break' moment. 

Every year has been a make or break moment for Hornby since 2013. Theirs has been a roller coaster with more downs than ups.

[Ozexpatriate]

I don’t hold with finance departments or constraints being responsible .

All companies have a personality.

 

There are marketing driven companies - like Apple.

There are engineering driven companies where R&D essentially decides what gets done.

There are finance driven companies where the accountants rule.

 

Often, each of these entities has a veto power, even if it is a pocket veto. Often where the chief executive is from is a indicator of what the governing personality will be.

 

At the end of the day engineering cannot build things that finance won't fund or build things to unrealistic marketing requirements. Ideally there is balance but the power dynamics of organizations will vary. Financially hard times usually trump just about everything else.

[Chris M]

I wonder how the battery operated Hornby junior set performed sales-wise? Anecdotally the local Argus shops had no stock by Christmas which looks good. I bought my grandson one for Christmas and he has run it every day since. Reviews have been mixed, mainly relating to difficulty in getting the wheels on the track.

 

I think the set, which after all is aimed at us, would be better with silver coloured bogies to make getting the wheels on the track easier for youngsters. Apart from that I think it is an excellent starter set and great value for money. Well done Hornby, I see this as a good start point for the very young and I hope it has been a financial success for them.

 

I don’t do OO so I don’t have any Hornby myself.

[No Decorum]

I’ve been wondering about that for the youngest of the family. What puts me off is that it can’t be expanded and the batteries. The track mat and expansion packs seem much better but then not so suitable for the very young. I might get one for his diminutive lordship – his fourth birthday comes soon.

[159220]

 Looks like one thing that is back is the e-word, though. I just hope no mags get printed early......... (CJL)

 

e-word? Could you mean an electrostar? Now that would impress! Best get to Smiths today!

 

 such as no initial plan to produce a MK3 1st in GWR!  

 

 

That was a blatant marketing tool. They purposely left the 1st Mk3 out of the GWR line up, so later they could announce on their propaganda blog "Oh look, we have listened, look what we have now announced". It was designed to make the customer feel that they have actually contributed a little to Hornby and leave goodwill and all. The fact is, the production slots for the Mk3s in GWR livery would of been made well before the announcement of the 2017 catalogue (reportedly Hornby decide their range by Feb the year before). Luckily, new management now, so hopefully no more silly marketing jokes like the 1st GWR Mk3 and steam locomotive at Warley on twitter!  

Edited January 6, 2018 by 159220

[dogbox321]

I’ve been wondering about that for the youngest of the family. What puts me off is that it can’t be expanded and the batteries. The track mat and expansion packs seem much better but then not so suitable for the very young. I might get one for his diminutive lordship – his fourth birthday comes soon.

 

I were going to get one for my three year old, but incompatible with normal track etc., so as building a proper layout didn't see any point!  Plus find cardboard accessories get flatpacked in a short space of time.

 

Saw a sale on at Tesco and got an O scale(ish) Caterpillar express (1 loco and 4 wagons (plus a dumper truck and buldozer) for £16.97!

 

Regards.

[stewartingram]

All this talk froth about Hornby announcements - what about Oxford now they have tied the knot with Hornby? Has anyone any idea if/when Oxford are making (rail) announcements?

 

Stewart

[adb968008]

All this talk froth about Hornby announcements - what about Oxford now they have tied the knot with Hornby? Has anyone any idea if/when Oxford are making (rail) announcements?

 

Stewart

 

Kernow has produced more than Oxford Rail, I'm not holding my breath there.

[mikeharvey22]

All this talk froth about Hornby announcements - what about Oxford now they have tied the knot with Hornby? Has anyone any idea if/when Oxford are making (rail) announcements?

 

Stewart

The London Toyfair is the big announcement platform for Oxford Diecast, and probably for Oxford Rail - just over 2 weeks away.

[40F]

The London Toyfair is the big announcement platform for Oxford Diecast, and probably for Oxford Rail - just over 2 weeks away.

 

 

AH no actually it is on MONDAY 8th of January

[Caledonian]

It's difficult to imagine that any individual was responsible for design clever. Hornby is a company and such things are decided in meetings of various groups of people. One imagines the finance and design departments had rather more to do with it than Simon did. ......... (CJL)

 

Perhaps someone can clarify something here. The Design Clever business appears to have come about at or just after the shake up of the Chinese factories. Was it actually a policy-led move or did Hornby suddenly find themselves relying on factories which couldn't [initially at least] deliver on the level of detail?

 

An oddity in Hornby's non-passenger stock is the fact that in recent years they have come up with some splendid new stock, eg: tipplers, a whole range of engineers' vehicles, the 21T hopper and most recently the SR cattle wagon and the LMS coke hopper, but they are all in desperately short supply and some totally unobtainable. Instead for the most part wagons are out of the ark, which rather suggests that their capacity for high-detail wagon stock is limited

[The Stationmaster]

Perhaps someone can clarify something here. The Design Clever business appears to have come about at or just after the shake up of the Chinese factories. Was it actually a policy-led move or did Hornby suddenly find themselves relying on factories which couldn't [initially at least] deliver on the level of detail?

 

An oddity in Hornby's non-passenger stock is the fact that in recent years they have come up with some splendid new stock, eg: tipplers, a whole range of engineers' vehicles, the 21T hopper and most recently the SR cattle wagon and the LMS coke hopper, but they are all in desperately short supply and some totally unobtainable. Instead for the most part wagons are out of the ark, which rather suggests that their capacity for high-detail wagon stock is limited

 

Or they are very cautious with their ordering because people keep on moaning about the prices.

[Coryton]

I’ve been wondering about that for the youngest of the family. What puts me off is that it can’t be expanded and the batteries. The track mat and expansion packs seem much better but then not so suitable for the very young. I might get one for his diminutive lordship – his fourth birthday comes soon.

 

Have you looked at the Marklin "My World" equivalent? The trains are more "cartoonish" (but recognizable if you know the prototype) and much easier to re-rail as the stock is generally 4 wheel. Plenty of scope for expansion, proper remote control including lights and sound, and I think on the latest models you just plug them in to a power supply to recharge rather than having to unscrew the battery compartment and swap/recharge batteries. And VERY robust.

 

I were going to get one for my three year old, but incompatible with normal track etc., so as building a proper layout didn't see any point!  Plus find cardboard accessories get flatpacked in a short space of time.

 

 

The plastic track they come with doesn't look at if it's compatible with normal 00 track, but the trains should be - it says on the box that you can run them on "Dad's" model railway (surprisingly sexist for this day and age even if largely true).

 

The Hornby web site says somewhat ambiguously "compatible with regular Hornby 00 track systems."