Hornby's financial updates to the Stock Market

[Legend]

Not all model shops do offer Bachmann at -15% . I think Harburn, in Edinburgh , as an example pretty much charge full price. Hornby certainly is.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Legend

[The Stationmaster]

Not all model shops do offer Bachmann at -15% . I think Harburn, in Edinburgh , as an example pretty much charge full price. Hornby certainly is.

 

They are not alone in that - one of my 'local' shops definitely doesn't discount in that way.

[Revolution Ben]

I think we have to accept that the world has changed.

 

<snipped>

 

If you go to pre-order and manufacture to pre-orders only, then the models are made, delivered to the distributor and go to consumers, as per what Locomotion are doing along with others. In such a case then retailers add nothing. The problem then is that this works perfectly for big ticket items but is less great for paints, adhesives, scenic materials and the 1001 other things modellers need, but although I dislike it I believe that the market for locomotives and rolling stock will increasingly move in that direction.

 

<snipped>

These are all good points, so I think to survive retailers need to look at new ways of finding a margin by, for example, commissioning their own exclusive models they can sell at a "proper" margin, much as Kernow, C&M of Carlisle, Osborns's and others are doing.

 

Then the apparently standard 15% discount on catalogue items might not sting so much, and they can surivive to offer the paints and glues we all need.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[Legend]

These are all good points, so I think to survive retailers need to look at new ways of finding a margin by, for example, commissioning their own exclusive models they can sell at a "proper" margin, much as Kernow, C&M of Carlisle, Osborns's and others are doing.

Then the apparently standard 15% discount on catalogue items might not sting so much, and they can surivive to offer the paints and glues we all need.

Cheers

Ben A.

I can't see each model shop commissioning their own exclusive models as being a viable means of retaining a model shop. You would quickly reach market saturation. It might work for a few big boys but not if everyone did it.

 

As I've said before I find the business aspect of the hobby fascinating. I think Hattons recognized the trend and also that they were being starved of revenue because of the poor supply from Hornby a few years ago. They therefore decided to go down the commissioning route. Kernow have done the same,Rails dabbled with the LMS twins, Olivia's with DCC sound and Woodhead electrics. On the other hand Hornby probably realizing that a large % of the market was going through the box shifters decided to increase their margin by selling direct and taking what would have been the box shifters profit into their own books. That didn't work as it really stuffed the independent retailer. Bachmann just increased prices , but I do wonder if that has worked and what that has done to the independent retailer. They must sell less and make less money in shops , but Bachmann make a larger margin per unit, so ok for them.

 

It's noticeable that Dave of DJM has had most success with commissions through retailers. I think the Austerity is actually the only model released directly by his company, and even then Hattons has exclusives. I do wonder if in retrospect he might have been better setting himself up as middleman between retailers that want to commission models and China. But , back to my opening point . There is a limit to the number of commissions

 

It really is a fascinating time. Glad it's not my livelihood , though. The independent model shop needs any support it can get.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Legend

[jjb1970]

I think that the changes in retailing are like many other things in that they are what they are and we just have to adapt and live with things. As with King Canute and the tides there is no point worrying unduly about stuff we can't control.

[Mike Storey]

I think that the changes in retailing are like many other things in that they are what they are and we just have to adapt and live with things. As with King Canute and the tides there is no point worrying unduly about stuff we can't control.

 

 

I am not sure I agree. There is much we can do, collectively, to ensure that our independent retailers have a better chance of prospering and surviving. At it's simplest, it means using them even though it might cost a few quid more. I know those with limited means or without a nearby retailer may object, but the majority still do have that choice, even if it is only by internet/mail order. Without them, I really don't see what we could adapt to, without significantly changing key aspects of how we undertake our hobby. If I cannot get the "bits" I want, or have to use only those bits offered by the big boys, the cheapest, most amazing loco in the world, will not make up for it.

[Clearwater]

DJM operates in a clever niche. Without the overheads of Hornby and Bachmann, DJM and a retailer on an exclusive commission can cut cost out and effectively hypothecate those savings towards extra detail that would otherwise make the model uneconomic.

 

David

[jjb1970]

I am not sure I agree. There is much we can do, collectively, to ensure that our independent retailers have a better chance of prospering and surviving. At it's simplest, it means using them even though it might cost a few quid more. I know those with limited means or without a nearby retailer may object, but the majority still do have that choice, even if it is only by internet/mail order. Without them, I really don't see what we could adapt to, without significantly changing key aspects of how we undertake our hobby. If I cannot get the "bits" I want, or have to use only those bits offered by the big boys, the cheapest, most amazing loco in the world, will not make up for it.

I agree that most on-line sales are bought from model shops, and those shops are local shops for people in their areas. I think where I’d say that we just have to accept the way retail has moved is in the consolidation of the retail side of the hobby and shift to on-line sales with a concomitant decline in bricks and mortar shops and many no longer having access to a local shop. I think it would be nice if we still lived in a country where almost every town of any size had a model shop or toy shop selling a reasonable selection of models, but I just cannot see the trend towards on-line sales reversing. I also think that if we consider the demographic of the hobby and the rising costs of producing models which will probably have to be amortised over smaller production runs then it leads me to believe that we will see an increasing use of the manufacture to pre-order business model along with an increasing move to direct sales by the manufacturer or party commissioning models.

[Mike Storey]

I agree that most on-line sales are bought from model shops, and those shops are local shops for people in their areas. I think where I’d say that we just have to accept the way retail has moved is in the consolidation of the retail side of the hobby and shift to on-line sales with a concomitant decline in bricks and mortar shops and many no longer having access to a local shop. I think it would be nice if we still lived in a country where almost every town of any size had a model shop or toy shop selling a reasonable selection of models, but I just cannot see the trend towards on-line sales reversing. I also think that if we consider the demographic of the hobby and the rising costs of producing models which will probably have to be amortised over smaller production runs then it leads me to believe that we will see an increasing use of the manufacture to pre-order business model along with an increasing move to direct sales by the manufacturer or party commissioning models.

 

Your point is perfectly fair, but one glimmer of hope is that of HMV, who have seen the sale of CD's and DVD's, from their brick and mortar shops, rise last year, much against previous trends of the downloading of music and films increasing exponentially. They are not sure why, and a number of explanations have been proferred by others. I also understand that the sale of real books has gone up as the use of the downloading of books has slowed. This may be just a blip in the long term trends, but it begins to suggest that things are not as inevitable as we have been persuaded to believe. Internet retailing is here to stay, and has many advantages, that's clear. But my point was that, aside from the practicality, when it is used simply to gain the lowest price, it is doubly detrimental.

[Godfrey Glyn]

I think that the changes in retailing are like many other things in that they are what they are and we just have to adapt and live with things. As with King Canute and the tides there is no point worrying unduly about stuff we can't control.

 

 

It is not like the King Canute situation at all; there is nothing he could do to change the tide but as a consumer of model railway products you can play a part in keeping the real model shops open, if you have one near by, buy your models there. You may even find that it doesn't cost much more to buy from your local shop compared to the big internet sellers, you can tap into the experience of the staff and fellow customers and you get the chance to see a loco run before parting with your money. It may be more expensive if you then succumb to the other essentials that you find on their shelves that you cannot see or get from the internet sources, but then that is a different matter! My choice of model shop involves a round trip of 50 miles but I always find it an enjoyable and worthwhile trip and return with fault free products and some things I never knew even existed,but find irresistible. Whether the small model shop continues to exist will depend upon the quality of the overall service it provides and the sense of the customers to realise that there is a considerable benefit to them in the long term of supporting good 'local' independents.

 

We live in interesting times but we do have choices that can affect the outcome!

 

all the best

Godfrey

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Your point is perfectly fair, but one glimmer of hope is that of HMV, who have seen the sale of CD's and DVD's, from their brick and mortar shops, rise last year, much against previous trends of the downloading of music and films increasing exponentially. They are not sure why, and a number of explanations have been proferred by others. I also understand that the sale of real books has gone up as the use of the downloading of books has slowed. This may be just a blip in the long term trends, but it begins to suggest that things are not as inevitable as we have been persuaded to believe...

 

The parallel to books and CD/DVD media is in businesses moving away from distribution of hardware, toward downloads. (The download model is flawed from a  customer perspective: once you buy a download it should be permanently available for whatever platform you are using throughout the purchaser's lifetime.)

 

Our stuff is intrinsically hardware, and in small volumes too with the costs associated with that, and no way of moving to a streamed software distribution in any of our lifetimes. I would encourage those who value the small and local shop to support it, but with this in mind: expect no loyalty from the retailer, once he or she has made enough dough to retire to The Maldives, the shop can 'go' just like that. It's a purely commercial relationship at all times.

[The Stationmaster]

I can't see each model shop commissioning their own exclusive models as being a viable means of retaining a model shop. You would quickly reach market saturation. It might work for a few big boys but not if everyone did it.

 

As I've said before I find the business aspect of the hobby fascinating. I think Hattons recognized the trend and also that they were being starved of revenue because of the poor supply from Hornby a few years ago. They therefore decided to go down the commissioning route. Kernow have done the same,Rails dabbled with the LMS twins, Olivia's with DCC sound and Woodhead electrics. On the other hand Hornby probably realizing that a large % of the market was going through the box shifters decided to increase their margin by selling direct and taking what would have been the box shifters profit into their own books. That didn't work as it really stuffed the independent retailer. Bachmann just increased prices , but I do wonder if that has worked and what that has done to the independent retailer. They must sell less and make less money in shops , but Bachmann make a larger margin per unit, so ok for them.

 

It's noticeable that Dave of DJM has had most success with commissions through retailers. I think the Austerity is actually the only model released directly by his company, and even then Hattons has exclusives. I do wonder if in retrospect he might have been better setting himself up as middleman between retailers that want to commission models and China. But , back to my opening point . There is a limit to the number of commissions

 

It really is a fascinating time. Glad it's not my livelihood , though. The independent model shop needs any support it can get.

 

A succession of interesting comments followed this post and I have 'Agreed' with the appropriate ones - particularly with Godfrey as we share the same 'local' model shop although we approach it, literally, from opposite points of the compass but over similar distances.

 

However the post above makes what I think are some very important points.  There is no doubt that Hornby were looking to increase their margin by venturing into direct sales in a big way but equally little doubt that they got it wrong, especially in relation to their retailers who they then treated like dirt (I can think of even less complimentary words).  It appears they have now turned a corner and the new management appreciates where they went wrong and what needs to be done to correct it - at least as far as model railways are concerned.

 

As far as venturing into commissioning is concerned there is clearly a limited market and it takes strong nerve and a lot of application and help to get a good result - the opportunities to do that are limited and the opportunities to do it profitably are even more limited but I think it hasn't entirely been down to Hornby's shortcomings (although some of it definitely has).  The big question mark is how this area is likely to change and the fact that it is already changing with Hattons seemingly going direct to a Chinese factory for their Warwell (which looks pretty good) and various Chinese 'factories' (which might or might not actually exist) trying to get in on direct deals while Oxford are also obviously in the commissioned model game too if their hopper for, again, Hattons (and the Dean Goods for the NRM) is any guide.

 

I see the 'commissioned model' market or rather the manufacturing side of it as being likely to change more than 'Legend' has postulated although the sheer cost and complexity of getting into it means there probably won't be many new entrants from the UK retail end but rather a more diverse situation at the manufacturing end.  Don't forget that in the fairly recent months we have seen two new arrivals in that respect so will we see further changes - at one time Hornby insisted on large quantities (1,000 units I understand) but some of their NRM commissions came in much smaller numbers than that.

 

Going back to the retail end I am sure the good ones are going to survive unless they are forced out of business by rents and taxation -  both are increasingly threats to retailers.  But they will survive only if they offer variety of stock, high quality of service, and good advice coupled with salesmanship - the shop Godfrey and I use does exactly that and has an excellent reputation in the hobby and of course it does mail order.  If shops like that vanish, totally, where will we buy the umpteen other things we need for modelling because even the best shows I know of don't necessarily offer that much variety under one roof.

 

The other point is what local shops can do to bring people into the hobby and where they exist they undoubtedly encourage and help new entrants, of all ages, judging by the examples I have seen at first hand.  Some shows can also to that  but tehy aren't there to go back to a week or two later if the newbie has a problem (I know there's always the 'net, but it's hardly the same).

[Mike Storey]

The parallel to books and CD/DVD media is in businesses moving away from distribution of hardware, toward downloads. (The download model is flawed from a  customer perspective: once you buy a download it should be permanently available for whatever platform you are using throughout the purchaser's lifetime.)

 

Our stuff is intrinsically hardware, and in small volumes too with the costs associated with that, and no way of moving to a streamed software distribution in any of our lifetimes. I would encourage those who value the small and local shop to support it, but with this in mind: expect no loyalty from the retailer, once he or she has made enough dough to retire to The Maldives, the shop can 'go' just like that. It's a purely commercial relationship at all times.

 

The parallel was that the increase in the take up of physical books, CD's and DVD's etc, came from their shops, not ordered through the internet. That was the surprise and the equivalent.

 

But we also have a parallel in that many smaller or simpler items are now downloadable. Buildings and some scenery can be downloaded directly. But 3D printing, using downloaded patterns, now make small quantity, smaller demand items, more feasible, and over time could make individual layouts have a more individual flavour, via firms like Shapeways. 3D technology, materials and price are developing apace, and this may soon see a reducing dependence on major factories, Chinese or otherwise. Been saying that for years? Well, a firm (PDF) specialising in 16mm/ft (narrow gauge garden railways basically) is now churning out very acceptable locomotive bodies, without the pitting problems of the original materials. Other firms in this scale continue with resin, or have switched to laser cutting, including a couple of medium volume producers. It suggests that retailer/other small commissioners may have alternative avenues in the near future, at least for rolling stock and structures, if not locos yet. Indeed, I am working with a friend, who up to now has specialised in 1/72 military modelling pattern making or originals in brass, upon which others base their moulds or 3D prints, to explore the most cost effective way in which he can produce a series of wagons for me at 1/76 (102t POA/JXA Sheerness Steel scrap carrying). It will be interesting to see where this all leads in 00/0 scales, but I wonder whether Hornby (or indeed Bachmann) are looking into the possibilities yet, assuming higher volume production becomes feasible, to escape the bulk of their supply chain issues. No mention of this in their annual report.

 

As for retailers, whilst you are right in the general scheme of things, most model railway outlets seem to be owned and run by real enthusiasts. Disregarding the likelihood they would ever make enough to retire to the Isle of Wight, let alone the Indian Ocean, the key element has been growing unviability leading to closure. That is why I believe we should have much more than a harsh commercial relationship. They are not Tescos v Aldi (other supermarkets are available) but the internet discount suppliers would have us believe it is, and the continuing crowing over how much cheaper I bought this or that, from X compared to Y, is anathema to our hobby's long term survival. If Hornby are now recognising this, by trying not to undercut independent, real shops, then three cheers to that.

[Caledonian]

I can't see each model shop commissioning their own exclusive models as being a viable means of retaining a model shop. You would quickly reach market saturation. It might work for a few big boys but not if everyone did it.

 

 

I think the point is that most models commissioned by shops are local to their area and as a result appeal not just to the collectors of the rare and curious but to their local customers. No matter how attractive the model, [and I'm not talking about Faye]  C&M in Carlisle are unlikely to sell anywhere near as many Southern or Great Western wagons as they do of their own Cumberland themed ones.

[JSpencer]

There is actually an awful lot out there being commissioned as well as the main manufacturers programs. Combined with price increases, people will doubtless pick and choose.

 

The problem is, there is only so much people will crowd source at any one time. I have purposely held off funding any more crowd sourced products until the 3 I currently have start to be actually delivered.

 

Likewise, with pre-orders. There is only so much  I will have at a time. A lot of items, I will wait until they come out to see what they are physically like now. I may miss something but it is not a worry as the layout has more than enough rolling stock on it.

 

Most model shops cannot do their own commissions as it means tying up a huge amount of capital needed for daily running on the shops. The number of items out there doubtless make it hard to stock all too. Those people which prefer a commissioned item before the mainstream item will not be spending money on regular items in the model shop. Therefore a part of the market is absorbed elsewhere.

 

Commissioning and crowd sourcing will reach a point whereby new projects will be hard to get off the ground because so much is waiting to be delivered. Indeed there are hints this is already the case, at least 2 such projects are known not to be generating as much interest as hoped causing delays and cut backs.

Likewise people might postpone normal purchases on the grounds that the commissioned items will be sold on a now or never basis which affects normal model shops.

 

The big manufacturers draw up plans over years for good reason but announcing a 5 year program would lead to just a dripping of orders per item and not a healthy order book.

[Clearwater]

I agree commissioning ties up a lot of capital and entails risk. However, in this day and age of low interest rates, if you are a larger retailer and have sufficient capital to invest in both tools and stock, it can be a sensible financial decision. If you're prepared to make say a 15% return on capital over a five year period to sell how ever many thousand of a particular class, that might be a smarter use of your money than investing in a low yielding bank account or in another financial investment, e.g. Shares, where you don't understand the market as well as you do model trains.

[The Stationmaster]

There is actually an awful lot out there being commissioned as well as the main manufacturers programs. Combined with price increases, people will doubtless pick and choose.

 

The problem is, there is only so much people will crowd source at any one time. I have purposely held off funding any more crowd sourced products until the 3 I currently have start to be actually delivered.

 

Likewise, with pre-orders. There is only so much  I will have at a time. A lot of items, I will wait until they come out to see what they are physically like now. I may miss something but it is not a worry as the layout has more than enough rolling stock on it.

 

Most model shops cannot do their own commissions as it means tying up a huge amount of capital needed for daily running on the shops. The number of items out there doubtless make it hard to stock all too. Those people which prefer a commissioned item before the mainstream item will not be spending money on regular items in the model shop. Therefore a part of the market is absorbed elsewhere.

 

Commissioning and crowd sourcing will reach a point whereby new projects will be hard to get off the ground because so much is waiting to be delivered. Indeed there are hints this is already the case, at least 2 such projects are known not to be generating as much interest as hoped causing delays and cut backs.

Likewise people might postpone normal purchases on the grounds that the commissioned items will be sold on a now or never basis which affects normal model shops.

 

The big manufacturers draw up plans over years for good reason but announcing a 5 year program would lead to just a dripping of orders per item and not a healthy order book.

 

But surely apart from what is now a relatively small number of folk most modellers have been picking and choosing with all models since persona finances became tighter as a consequence of the 'crash' 8 years ago?   It no doubt took a few years for that belt tightening to spread but spread it no doubt has.  my own spending became very much centred on 'logical fit' models several years ago and I have generally ignored 'ooh, one of those would be nice to have' for several years.

 

What that equally means is that the markets identified by commissioners and 'the big boys' probably now need greater care than was once the case but I doubt things will change all that much because of what is already in the pipeline - witness the situation at, say, Bachmann (who have an awful lot of catching up to do on earlier announcements but who still come out with new ones).  The main effect of 'what's in the pipeline' is on cashflow and development cash not - in the case of commissioners - researching further models where their overheads tend to be very low because a lot of the work is not done by paid staff but by 'helpers'.  That means, I think, that there won't necessarily be a lack of ideas coming forward - just that they might be selected in a different way such as by specific themes etc.  

 

And don't forget that while it might not necessarily appear to be the case some (if not all?) of the commissioners also have programmes and the main thing which is likely to upset their applecarts is somebody else announcing an item before they do (and, in some cases - then rushing it to the marketplace to the disadvantage of the end purchasers).

[ruggedpeak]

DJM operates in a clever niche. Without the overheads of Hornby and Bachmann, DJM and a retailer on an exclusive commission can cut cost out and effectively hypothecate those savings towards extra detail that would otherwise make the model uneconomic.

 

David

Swings and roundabouts - if the market moves away from commissions for whatever reason it could be a bit tricky. Some retailers will be getting clobbered by rises in business rates this year. And some of those commissions are behind schedule and competitors like Hornby have got products out ahead of DJM (71, King). And we've seen some commissions "cancelled" by commissioning retailers. On the crowd fund front Rapido are quite open about stalling production of items until there are enough pre-orders. It is arguably a precarious niche, especially if the red and blue teams get their acts together and fill the shops with sought after product.

 

Whilst there is little doubt DJM are busy their business model may not be settled as yet. Hornby and Bachmann may have overheads but both have some good stuff in their new ranges, with Hornby selling out their pre-order allocations on some Pecketts, Hitachi's and Merchant Navy's, so customers may be busy buying those. On the D&E front there is more than enough in the new red and blue ranges to empty my wallet for the entire year without resorting to commissions or the dreaded limited editions!

 

My commission and crowd fund purchases this year will probably be 2x Revolution TEA's and a Hattons 121.

[JSpencer]

But surely apart from what is now a relatively small number of folk most modellers have been picking and choosing with all models since persona finances became tighter as a consequence of the 'crash' 8 years ago? It no doubt took a few years for that belt tightening to spread but spread it no doubt has. my own spending became very much centred on 'logical fit' models several years ago and I have generally ignored 'ooh, one of those would be nice to have' for several years.

 

What that equally means is that the markets identified by commissioners and 'the big boys' probably now need greater care than was once the case but I doubt things will change all that much because of what is already in the pipeline - witness the situation at, say, Bachmann (who have an awful lot of catching up to do on earlier announcements but who still come out with new ones). The main effect of 'what's in the pipeline' is on cashflow and development cash not - in the case of commissioners - researching further models where their overheads tend to be very low because a lot of the work is not done by paid staff but by 'helpers'. That means, I think, that there won't necessarily be a lack of ideas coming forward - just that they might be selected in a different way such as by specific themes etc.

 

And don't forget that while it might not necessarily appear to be the case some (if not all?) of the commissioners also have programmes and the main thing which is likely to upset their applecarts is somebody else announcing an item before they do (and, in some cases - then rushing it to the marketplace to the disadvantage of the end purchasers).

I agree. People are moving more to buy something that fits logically than buying it because it is nice and it is there. You did this in 2008, but it is a gradual process, but others will switch when prices reach their personal limits. 2008 had no effect on me (other than reducing the interest rate on my mortgage!), but today's prices and the fact my that my layout is not short of stock, has made me target items with more care.

 

My point was not that people will not buy from commissions or from retailers, but indeed rather, people will buy more and more items that fit in logically. As we all model different things and have different goals (thank goodness), then some will be drawn by certain mainstream announcements, others to a commission (or a mix of both).

 

Of the all new tooling coming out, commissions are probably around a third of the number, yet are available in specific shops only. Regular model shops can only look on at many of these delights which are exclusive elsewhere, so it is a potential 1/3 rd of new tooling sales they cannot profit from.

A small retailer commissioning themselves is a risk, when I worked for the signal box in the 90s (considered a big fish), we took 3+ years to shift 500 Lima KESR class 73s in a lovely NSE colour at £36. They took up space in the shop physically, and in our advertising as well as locking up money. The Signal box did not do another until Modelzone took over.

We could survive that because of our size but a small retailer probably would not.

Edited January 18, 2017 by JSpencer

[Andy Y]

An interesting perspective from one of my off-forum friends which looks back to earlier impacts on the hobby.

 

 

Circa 1962

 

By the 1960s model railways were by far the most sophisticated toys* in town. It would be another couple of years before the motor racing (slot car) circuits would briefly threaten the existence of the model railway hobby. (*Mainstream manufacturers of model railways then were very much part of the toy industry – although there were a small number of companies including Bassett-Lowke who catered for the model market and were therefore priced accordingly).

 

Indeed the world has moved on and today there are many town or even cities where model railway suppliers are in non-existent. So what was so different back in 1962. Firstly real railways were still intact – the real threat came a year later when Dr Beeching published his report – stripping out railway lines from many areas. People born after then would not have had the same incentive to take up railway modelling as we did.

 

Back in the 1960s model railways could be found in:

 

F.W.Woolworth the large chain of general stores were the main outlet for several manufacturers. Each store had extensive displays of Airfix kits (including the railway series), Lone Star (OOO – the forerunner of N gauge and also the supplier of model cars) and Playcraft OO/HO model railways. The latter were cheap and cheerful sets and individual components made by Jouef in France for Mettoy. The exposure of the hobby in a store that every town of any importance had on the high street cannot be underestimated.

 

All the major departmental stores had major toy departments often with operating model railway displays particularly at Christmas. Memories of those at Gamages and others in London spring to mind.

 

Toy shops stocked model railways and many had their own model departments. Every large town had a toy shop and smaller towns and villages sold toys (including model railways) through newsagents or other outlets such as bike shops or chemists (I know it seems unlikely but adverts from the time do exist). These were outlets for the products of Tri-ang, Hornby (and Hornby Dublo), Trix, Graham Farish (then OO) and Playcraft.

 

Specialist model shops existed and these supplied not just the main ranges but the expanding kit market and also provision of the bits and pieces that modellers of the time desired.

 

Both Tri-ang and Hornby (under Meccano ownership) had service agents in all of the larger retailers and they carried spares (replacement couplings, brushes, etc.) and would also repair damaged items. For those repairs that could not be done in-house they were passed on to the manufacturers servicing department for repairs to be undertaken.

 

The range of models produced each year and the introduction of new items was restricted to just a few each year. The items we purchased back then were expensive when compared to wages and the purchase of items like train sets was the staple diet of many Christmas clubs operated by retailers at the time as they cost more than most families could afford so amounts were paid in each week.

 

Over the years I have met plenty of modellers that missed out on their youthful model railway experiences as they came from large families with little income. They certainly made up for it in later years!

 

We were happy back then to run trains that were shorter than they should have been, had all moulded detail and were far removed from the scale models that we have access today.

 

Back then all prices were the same if you bought the item in Thurso or Penzance.

 

Perhaps we were far happier back then?

 

All those stockists, less choice and little in the way of discounts but as he says "were we happier then?".

[cravensdmufan]

A very well written and interesting article.  I well remember Tri-ang in many shops and saving pocket money to buy model railway items in the High Street in my small town.  There was a choice of three shops!  And he's right, they all had the same items at the same price - that was on the price list in the catalogue. 

 

Changed days indeed!

 

Happy days, and nice memories - but obviously the choice for modellers is a lot better now.  There's no comparison!

 

Thanks for sharing,

Edited January 18, 2017 by cravensdmufan

[GordonC]

I think the point is that most models commissioned by shops are local to their area and as a result appeal not just to the collectors of the rare and curious but to their local customers. No matter how attractive the model, [and I'm not talking about Faye]  C&M in Carlisle are unlikely to sell anywhere near as many Southern or Great Western wagons as they do of their own Cumberland themed ones.

 

I'm not sure thats right, shops are possibly more likely to commission things which appeal to their owners rather than geographical location. Yes, they might look at things local to their area first, but I'd be quite happy buying something from the opposite end of the country if its something I like

[APOLLO]

Interesting article and very true.

 

Back in the 60's in Wigan we had two model shops, both of which were sports shops also. JJ Bradburns (Later JJB) and Oliver Summers, both of which stocked tri-ang TT & OO. I got my first Tri-ang TT set for Christmas from Oliver Summers back around 1959/60. Woolworths stocked Playcraft and Crescent (die cast signals), A wonderful stall in Wigan Market Hall sold everything, Airfix, Kitmaster, Dinky toys, Corgi, as well as stink bombs, plastic dog poo and teddy bear's noses (true !!!!). Of course back then on 2 bob a week pocket money not a lot could be bought, but train spotting real trains took up more of our  time than modelling back then. A train set was just an addition to the general railway hobby.

 

Back then I would never have dreamed of what is available today. And new models are still being made - and sold out quickly at that !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Were we happier ? - in a word yes - but we had youth on our side, and Brit's Jubs, Black 5's Dub Dees, Big Dees and Bug Boxes a plenty were only a five minute walk away !!

 

Brit15

[Mike at C&M]

I think the point is that most models commissioned by shops are local to their area and as a result appeal not just to the collectors of the rare and curious but to their local customers. No matter how attractive the model, [and I'm not talking about Faye]  C&M in Carlisle are unlikely to sell anywhere near as many Southern or Great Western wagons as they do of their own Cumberland themed ones.

I'm not sure thats right, shops are possibly more likely to commission things which appeal to their owners rather than geographical location. Yes, they might look at things local to their area first, but I'd be quite happy buying something from the opposite end of the country if its something I like

At C&M, we always try and commission a local wagon every year, and our run is about 150. As well as local modellers, we are lucky that Settle & Carlisle brings us customers through the summer (Obviously, not in 2016), and many of these wagons head down the country as souvenirs of their trip. Each wagon usually takes about a year to sell.

 

For larger commissions, BR Blue Class 86s, ScotRail Mark 3s and ScotRail 156 in N gauge, the key for us is being able to 'piggyback' on to the back of something that is already being produced - we simply cannot finance a production run in its' own right. 'Gut feeling' and experience of the market tells me whether I feel I can sell the quantities required, but I am always aware that some will sell far more slowly than I would like - the 86s took 3 years to sell, the ScotRail 156s continue to dribble out.

 

However, I am aware we are rather off-topic here. Time to bury my head in the Hornby 2017 catalogue and work out together my trade order for the year ahead.

[JSpencer]

The models also were under scale length too.

 

I feel that there was more emphasis on operating (playing?) back then than too.

 

As a kid, I made do with a Hornby HST, class 37, class 47 and a Lima 52 alongside a motly collection of shunters (both diesel and steam), with only one tender loco (Mallard) and sufficient rolling stock (3 coach trains or a handful of wagons). This was as close as I could get to a typical 70s south eastern layout (only the green 08 shunter had actually operated in the south!) back then on my budget, but we were happy each time a new item was added and running just what we had.

 

And planning to budget, making do with what I had matched certain real world railways in a way.

Edited January 18, 2017 by JSpencer