BR 20T Coke Hopper diagram 1/150

[Nimbus]

The small cross frames are a real pain to fit as they are so small, I think I will try to find a way of having them all attached to another section of brass so they can be held in place as one piece for soldering, then the attachment part can be snipped off once they are all soldered to the inner solebar.

Could you perhaps add seats for spring wires to these, or to the inner solebar for those who would like to go this way? They could be snipped off/ not folded out for those happy with rigid construction, or constrained by narrow wheel back-to-backs . It would be prototypical if model industrial tracks were not perfectly aligned!

 

The Nim.

[macgeordie]

I'm sure that EM/P4 types can devise some springing if one is that way inclined?

That these beasties are appearing is enough to wibble my mojo.

 

I agree Iain, this project is complicated enough as it stands now, the etch is already not far off A4 size. This has been one of the few projects I have started and wondered why I started it, it really has been a pain to get right, but that tends to be the case with most hopper wagons because of the multiple angles you have to get to mate with each other properly.

 

Anyway, I got the brake gear on today as well as the solebar hooks and buffers. I actually got a bit farther than this, but this is the last photo I took.

 

 

I will try to post more pics tomorrow.

 

Ian

[Porcy Mane]

Looking good Ian.

You've probably seen this.

© National Railway Museum and SSPL

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool%20Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_RF_421

 

P

 

 

[Mark Saunders]

There appears that there is a full set of drawings for the LMS wagons from the Met Camm collection of drawings held by the HMRS!

 

Mark Saunders

[macgeordie]

Thanks gents

 

I have a copy of that photo Paul and I managed to get a copy of the Model Railway Constructor article with the drawings as we had a copy of the relevant issue in the club library. I hadn't realised there were copies of the drawings in the HMRS collection, but no doubt that would have meant another outlay to purchase copies, asuming non members can purchase them.

 

Almost finished now, I added the hopper doors and the cosmetic hinge overlay today.

 

 

 

The NEM coupling box is fitted, but for those who want operational couplings this can be left off.

 

 

The hopper end supports being fitted

 

 

And finally the gussets being prepared. I actually got these fitted but it was too dark to take a photo and I couldn't be bothered to get my floodlights out so I'll take a pic tomorrow.

 

 

All that is left is to fit the axle boxes and springs now. I'll make a few more minor changes to the drawing and send it off for another test etch. I need to order some stuff for other forum members who have requested them so it can all be ordered at once.

 

Ian

[Staffordshire]

Some will, some will not, I am a very lucky man.

 

 Magnificent Ian, thank you.  

[iak]

Mmmmm, I do like a good gusset :-)

[Enterprisingwestern]

Especially a moist one.

[macgeordie]

Especially a moist one.

Trust you to lower the tone Mike!!!!

 

Are you at Scale Four North next weekend?

 

Ian

[iak]

Well I certainly should be.

Transportation permitting and no last minute hiccups, some of the Beastie Bhoys will be present.

[macgeordie]

I got the wagon finished and have now modified the drawing to tweak the things I wanted to change so I am going to send off for another test etch for this wagon and I think I will get the diagram 151 done at the same time to save on the (expensive) delivery charges.

 

The first batch of diagram 1/152 were the same as diagram 1/151 except that they had a through pipe so I might add the additional set of gusset parts with a hole for the pipe. I was told by a member of the forum that when these were being built at Shildon the original drawing called for holes on one side only but when these were assembled, the gusset parts with holes ended up on both sides, mixed with some without holes which caused chaos, so the drawing was modified to have holes on both sides in order to prevent any issues even though the pipe was only fitted to one side.

 

 

I've just noticed on this photo I have managed to get the strapping overlay at the central plate join on the wagon slightly off vertical which is a bit annoying, I should have spotted that sooner. It will have to stay that way though, as it will be very difficult to get it off and re-position without causing other problems.

 

Ian

[hmrspaul]

 

The first batch of diagram 1/152 were the same as diagram 1/151 except that they had a through pipe so I might add the additional set of gusset parts with a hole for the pipe. I was told by a member of the forum that when these were being built at Shildon the original drawing called for holes on one side only but when these were assembled, the gusset parts with holes ended up on both sides, mixed with some without holes which caused chaos, so the so the drawing was modified to have holes on both sides in order to prevent any issues even though the pipe was only fitted to one side.

 

 

 

 

Ian

Not convinced that story was correct, no sign of holes here http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/e32035079   http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/e1b7f239

 

Paul

[Porcy Mane]

Not convinced that story was correct, no sign of holes here http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/e32035079   http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/e1b7f239

 

Paul

You'll just have to take it as read. As told by the draughtsman that was involved with the adaptation of the drawings and the building of the wagons. He never said they were all like that. Just until it was realised there was a problem which was then rectified.

There are still a few Shildon men left with us that have confirmed the story.

P

[Axlebox]

You'll just have to take it as read. As told by the draughtsman that was involved with the adaptation of the drawings and the building of the wagons. He never said they were all like that. Just until it was realised there was a problem which was then rectified.

There are still a few Shildon men left with us that have confirmed the story.

P

 

Pourcy/Paul

I understand it was the first job he had drawn up that went off to be produced (it was the pipe run hole modification in the gusset plate), however he didn't specify which side had the pipe run gussets (and it wasn't picked up when checked or by the foreman on the shop floor until a number of wagons had been assembled with holey and none holey gussets...I can't imagine they had put many together before they noticed!)

I for one was convinced by the story however I'll eat my hat if some one comes up with a picture of the 2 or 3 wagons involved.

I doubt its a lesson Ray forgot,...which is why he still talks about it 60 odd years later!

Regards

Duncan

[Axlebox]

Pourcy/Paul

I understand it was the first job he had drawn up that went off to be produced (it was the pipe run hole modification in the gusset plate), however he didn't specify which side had the pipe run gussets (and it wasn't picked up when checked or by the foreman on the shop floor until a number of wagons had been assembled with holey and none holey gussets...I can't imagine they had put many together before they noticed!)

I for one was convinced by the story however I'll eat my hat if some one comes up with a picture of the 2 or 3 wagons involved.

I doubt its a lesson Ray forgot,...which is why he still talks about it 60 odd years later!

Regards

Duncan

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/h32035079#he697543

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/h32035079#he697543

 

...do I need to start eating my own hat?

Edited April 12, 2016 by Axlebox

[macgeordie]

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/h32035079#he697543

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/h32035079#he697543

 

...do I need to start eating my own hat?

Brilliant, there's a prototype for everything

 

Ian

[Porcy Mane]

 

Well bless my soul. Mr G might be knocking on a bit but still as sharp a knife. I remember he said that quite a few escaped into traffic before being noticed/questioned and the bum smacking begining.

That's quite well up in the numbering if the wagons left works in numerical order and that lot number was listed as not having any raves. Not long now before we likely start reading this in some magazine article or review. 

 

P

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/h32035079#h26b066b

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/h32035079#he6b1a2d

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcoke/h32035079#h31b914a5

Edited April 12, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[macgeordie]

I finally got the new test etch built up, I have done it as one of the diagram 1/152-1's which is a piped version of the diagram 151.It was only after I had finished it I realised it should have self contained buffers, not the spindle type which I have fitted. These are correct for the 150 and 151 versions as built, but buffers and axleboxes were changed a lot as the wagons aged so a phpto will be required for a specific prototype at a specific time period.

 

This is the finished wagon

 

 

This is the wagon alongside the earlier build which is to diagram 150. The main differences are no raves on the ends of the wagon, footsteps on the ends, through pipe and hose (although these were mostly removed later but the pipe retained) Timkin bearings and a rim at the top edge of the wagon end.

The diagram 150 wagon has had a coat of primer, that is not the final colour.

 

 

I have made a couple of minor changes to the drawing so I'll get another test etch made. 

 

Ian

[iak]

Cue dribbling and wibbling....

Utterly gorgeous Ian - bravo

[CloggyDog]

Having recently had yet another 3H one disintegrate whilst being gently shunted at an exhibition, I look forward to these being made available. That 1/151 looks cracking good... dare I enquire if the 1/152 will follow??

[macgeordie]

Having recently had yet another 3H one disintegrate whilst being gently shunted at an exhibition, I look forward to these being made available. That 1/151 looks cracking good... dare I enquire if the 1/152 will follow??

Hi Alan

 

The wagon shown is a 1/152-1 but I will be looking at doing the 1/152-2 once I am happy with these etches. I need to get more photos though, photos of the 152-2 are not as common as the earlier versions. I'll have to have another good look through Paul Bartletts website to see what I can find. It is very strange that the two types are so different yet have the same diagram number in the BR book.

 

Ian

[ozzyo]

Hello Ian,

 

I've just found the thread and read it from page one. Looks like this is going to be a smashing kit. Very early on you mentioned the Barrow empties, where are you modelling?

 

Re. closing the hopper doors using a shunter's pole, this is how I think that they may have done it, using the pigs tail to catch the door then pull the pole back until the door is at about 45 deg.then lift the door until the pin can be used to lock the door in place.

 

OzzyO.

[macgeordie]

Hello Ian,

 

I've just found the thread and read it from page one. Looks like this is going to be a smashing kit. Very early on you mentioned the Barrow empties, where are you modelling?

 

Re. closing the hopper doors using a shunter's pole, this is how I think that they may have done it, using the pigs tail to catch the door then pull the pole back until the door is at about 45 deg.then lift the door until the pin can be used to lock the door in place.

 

OzzyO.

Hello Ian,

 

I've just found the thread and read it from page one. Looks like this is going to be a smashing kit. Very early on you mentioned the Barrow empties, where are you modelling?

 

Re. closing the hopper doors using a shunter's pole, this is how I think that they may have done it, using the pigs tail to catch the door then pull the pole back until the door is at about 45 deg.then lift the door until the pin can be used to lock the door in place.

 

OzzyO.

Hi Ozzy

My layout is Kirkby Stephen West on the S&C. A friend of mine was a signalman in a box just north of Leeds in the 1960's and he told me he saw the Barrow empties regularly. It could have come down the West Coast or the S&C, but he said it nearly always had a G2A on the front. Even if it was usually booked to come down the West Coast there would almost certainly have been diversions down the S&C.

 

Ian

[ozzyo]

Hi Ozzy

My layout is Kirkby Stephen West on the S&C. A friend of mine was a signalman in a box just north of Leeds in the 1960's and he told me he saw the Barrow empties regularly. It could have come down the West Coast or the S&C, but he said it nearly always had a G2A on the front. Even if it was usually booked to come down the West Coast there would almost certainly have been diversions down the S&C.

 

Ian

 

Hello Ian,

 

from Barrow to the east coast, the empties had only about two short routes.

 

Barrow - Arnside - Sandside - Hincaster juc. - Tebay - Kirby Stephen East - Stainmore summit - Barnard Castle - ETC.

 

Or,

 

Barrow - Carnforth F&M juc. - Hellifield - Skipton - Leeds -ETC.

 

From Workington, it was much the same C.K.& P.R. - Appleby East - Warcop - Kirby Stephen East - ETC.

 

I'll see about some maps tomorrow for you.

 

ATB

 

OzzyO.

[Porcy Mane]

Re. closing the hopper doors using a shunter's pole, this is how I think that they may have done it, using the pigs tail to catch the door then pull the pole back until the door is at about 45 deg.then lift the door until the pin can be used to lock the door in place.

That's about it in a nutshell. Now what I want to now is, how did they close the bottom doors on 16 ton minerals tat had them fitted?

 

P