Bachmann Tornado

[Guest TomTank]

As i know nothing about Steam Locomotives, and the time frame they operated, i would like some help on a small matter.

My layout is to be Present day, however, i would like to run the A1 as a Day Special, if you see what i mean, but i don't know what stock it would haul.

 

Any advice is appreciated.

 

Sam

 

Hi Sam

 

On railtours today the fleets used are usually made up of Mk1s and Mk2s I think, anyone feel free to correct me if im wrong

[Dan Hamblin]

This was the rake used for the Top Gear special to Edinburgh:

 

http://www.riviera-trains.co.uk/theroyalscot.htm

 

Most railtours use a mix of coaches from this rake and others in the Riviera Trains fleet, anything from chocolate and cream to green and cream or maroon!

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[samkiller42]

Thank you Tom and Dan, both helpful.

Will look into it in more detail at a later date, but the link has been noted.

 

Sam

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

The coal load cannot be removed it is molded into the tender. No smoke box detail, that was also asked....thats fine by me I would have only cut it out anyway. My only minor complaint is access to the screw under the axle to the rear of the tender. All in all a top model very pleased with it. Well done Bachmann.

 

I completely stripped it down today for major works and it comes apart nicely. Had to remove the smoke box door I was lucky as not much glue was used.

 

Has anyone worked out how to remove the coal load yet - The assembly diagram imples it is removable (as most recent Bachmann tenders ), but blutack and fingernails suggests its not!

 

Shame as I've got a rather large lump of coal out of the real loco's tender that I was going to coal the model with.... hmmm

0

 

m

[G-BOAF]

Well, runs nicely on plain track.

Quick dismantle of the chassis to sort out a 'floating' centre axle (well actually just on one side - rather strange) reveals that there is NO MOVEMENT on the front 'sprung' axle. Comments have been made here about limited travel, but somewhere along the engineering process, the 'square' end of the recess for the sprung axle has been set to the same height as the curved recesses on the other wheels. Result - no movement at all, and a major job to enlarge it (very thick frame section at this point). I'd guess someone at Kader looked at the drawings, saw a high axle recess and though "that must be wrong" and 'corrected' the tooling.

 

I'm guessing on previous releases there was at least some movement!!!

 

havn't yet tested over points, but with a fully rigid chassis and '5 wheel' pickup I'm not hugely excited.....

grrrr.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Very little movement on the sprung driven axle as supplied, on the models I have handled less then 0.5mm upward from the rail, 0 downwards. That's been pretty much the case on every Bach steam model with sprung driven axles, it is often difficult to tell which axle (if any) has a spring on it. When posting about this, I have steered clear of advising people to deepen the chassis' axle recess to increase upward travel; those that know what they are about will take care of that should a little more upward travel be desireable.

[the fuzzler]

Mines still in the box from pre xmas so not tested yet, and don't want to fiddle too much until I sort out a foam cradle thing to assist in dismantling.

 

I was not too interested in Tornado, until I saw her in the flesh rolling into Leeds. That, plus Clarkson's trip on her, swung it for me.

 

Now then - commercial confidence be damned - I bet this has been a belting seller for Bachmann. Any ideas how many have been sold ?

[Hastings Thumper]

Well the angled cab fall plate was beginning to annoy me so having managed to remove it from the loco I bent it back to an almost horizontal position.

 

Although this now looks a lot better, it stops the loco being coupled to the tender using the inner hole on the tender coupling bar (I didn't try the longer setting so can't comment if that will work or not).

 

I thought this was a bit odd, so compared the current version of Tornado with the limited edition (BR late green) release that I bought a few years back. The earlier version has a horizontal fall plate and easily couples up using the closest setting on the coupling bar.

 

Having compared the two models, I've found that the difference is that at the front of the tender on the older version, the fall plate can slide underneath the coal chute (the bit that the fireman shovels the coal from - sorry, I don't know the correct term for this). On the new version this part is moulded down to the tender floor, so that fall plate can't slide underneath anymore.

 

Although I'm sure that the new tender moulding a highly accurate (and full marks to Bachmann for an excellent model of Tornado is it's current form), either the closest tender coupling position can't be used with a horizontal cab fall plate, or some surgery to the fall plate is required.

 

If however, I've missed the blindingly obvious and there is an easier fix to this then please let me know.

 

Regards

 

Sam

[G-BOAF]

Haulage:

Well, I had Tornado running with 13, yes 13 on the other day. Full Mainline Charter train, on my very basic layout with 2nd radius curves (please excuse it, I'm investing my time in stock as I don't have room for a permanent layout at present). She didn't like some of the curves them, and slowed a bit, but I really can't fault her performance. The only slipping occurred when I accelerated too hard (which is pretty prototypical). And fully capable of a realistic top speed with that load (although curves limit me to 25ish mph)

The only chassis modifications were two coils removed from the rear axle spring to increase load on the drivers. I good clean of the wheels to remove the residue of the blackening and running in might also help.

 

And just to prove I'm not making it up....!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTBEKXQChTA

 

No, I didn't go to the trouble of installing motor bogies in my brake coaches... Its just the A1 providing the power. The slowing towards the end is Tornado struggling on a tight curve - Peco setrack, so possibly distorted to tighter than 2nd rad.

[chamossaire]

Hallo received my A1 tornado yesterday ,lner green,nice finish but. does the original not have roller bearing axleboxes the model depicts conventional ones also has tender water scoop fitted,easily removed . the A1 trust vesion from bachman depicted roller bearings but that also had the wrong tender wheels disc instead of spoke,guess a need to find some roller bearing covers ,Thought bachman would have got right when the original is brand new

Edited January 20, 2010 by Mod6
Post merged into original topic

[S.A.C Martin]

Hallo received my A1 tornado yesterday ,lner green,nice finish but. does the original not have roller bearing axleboxes the model depicts conventional ones also has tender water scoop fitted,easily removed . the A1 trust vesion from bachman depicted roller bearings but that also had the wrong tender wheels disc instead of spoke,guess a need to find some roller bearing covers ,Thought bachman would have got right when the original is brand new

 

Firstly there is already a thread on the model, found here:

 

Tornado Model thread

 

Secondly - Bachmann and the A1 Trust said it many times over the last year - the tooling up of a roller bearing model was too costly, and wouldn't be attempted. They tooled up a new tender which shows the most obvious differences anyway.

 

The wheels on the tender of my sample ARE spoked, the real one having spoked wheels too. I am unsure of whether you mean yours doesn't have spoked wheels or not, if so then you must contact your supplier of the model who will get on to Bachmann for a replacement wheelset.

[TrainsOnArran]

Please could someone tell me how to dismantle the body to fit a decoder. Normally Bachmann provide details of where the necessary screws are, but there are none in my packaging. I've found the two screws under the cab, either side of the drawbar, but what else is there?

[S.A.C Martin]

Please could someone tell me how to dismantle the body to fit a decoder. Normally Bachmann provide details of where the necessary screws are, but there are none in my packaging. I've found the two screws under the cab, either side of the drawbar, but what else is there?

 

One under the front bogie - I seem to recall its a cross head screw, but I could have that wrong. You may need to gently ease out the front bogie wheel with a flathead screwdriver to access.

[Dan Hamblin]

You will also need to ease out the wire beneath the running board on the right hand side of the loco. Decoder socket is in the firebox behind the motor.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[TrainsOnArran]

Thank you both - job now done. After the fiasco that was fitting a decoder to City of Truro, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that all locos should come DDC fitted!

[Horsetan]

.... the tooling up of a roller bearing model was too costly, and wouldn't be attempted. ....

 

Room, surely, for someone to come up with a nice Timken casting, plus a Cortazzi/Timken pair for the trailing truck?

[S.A.C Martin]

Room, surely, for someone to come up with a nice Timken casting, plus a Cortazzi/Timken pair for the trailing truck?

 

Absolutely - and if some enterprising person did it, I'd buy two sets One blue Tornado and one Green Tornado to do up, after all...!

[Horsetan]

....I'd buy two sets One blue Tornado and one Green Tornado to do up, after all...!

 

At the moment, the only way I can see to reproduce this on the tender is to keep the existing A1 springs and hangers, but to graft in LMS Ivatt roller bearing boxes. BR Standard boxes look slightly too small.

 

For the trailing truck, it means trying to saw away the existing box, but not the Cortazzi slides, and then grafting in the new roller bearing box. Not a job for those of unsteady hand

[chamossaire]

Hallo .sorry didnt know about the trust and bachman not going to change the axle boxes mspent from april last year in an out of hospital so i misssed a lot of what was happenning.I have the A1 trust ist edtion issued some years ago lthey put yellow dots on the axle boxes to represent roller bearings,that tender came with disc wheels.the apple green one has spoked wheels,But more to the point ,too costly to retool the chassis?are they going to use this tender chassis with the new A2. with its railroad style brake rods and shoes welded to the frames,surely they could design optional axle boxes as they have already produced Great Central with the wrong bearigs 5 of the original class were built from new with roller bearings,paying a premium price for inaccurate models aint good, If the new A2v has this chassis then its one loco i wont be buying

[G-BOAF]

Hallo .sorry didnt know about the trust and bachman not going to change the axle boxes mspent from april last year in an out of hospital so i misssed a lot of what was happenning.I have the A1 trust ist edtion issued some years ago lthey put yellow dots on the axle boxes to represent roller bearings,that tender came with disc wheels.the apple green one has spoked wheels,But more to the point ,too costly to retool the chassis?are they going to use this tender chassis with the new A2. with its railroad style brake rods and shoes welded to the frames,surely they could design optional axle boxes as they have already produced Great Central with the wrong bearigs 5 of the original class were built from new with roller bearings,paying a premium price for inaccurate models aint good, If the new A2v has this chassis then its one loco i wont be buying

 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'd guess its very likely that the same tender will be used with the A2, along with other A1 parts (bogie, cab?), but that doesn't mean it won't be a stunning model. If the tender is a major problem, how about buying a Hornby LNER 8 wheel tender chassis, and fitting the Bachmann body to it(somehow)? This will also give an additional 8 wheels of pickup! From What I understand, the tender frames are the same (Tornado was originally going to use Scotsmans second tender), but different brake systems prohibited the swapping of tenders between Gresley and Peppercorn locos.

[chamossaire]

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'd guess its very likely that the same tender will be used with the A2, along with other A1 parts (bogie, cab?), but that doesn't mean it won't be a stunning model. If the tender is a major problem, how about buying a Hornby LNER 8 wheel tender chassis, and fitting the Bachmann body to it(somehow)? This will also give an additional 8 wheels of pickup! From What I understand, the tender frames are the same (Tornado was originally going to use Scotsmans second tender), but different brake systems prohibited the swapping of tenders between Gresley and Peppercorn locos.

Hallo .cant be stunning if you have to buy a Hornby tender to put it right,the A1 trust decided early on to build a NEW locomotive with all new parts .health an saftey ,modern materials and modern methords of construction ,so although it looks like an A1 technically its a development of the class.the tender used on the A1 model the chassis aint that far removed from the lilliput one,Already bought Hornby tenders for my A4s 9bachman ones the other 9 are Hornby.check out bachmans reply to the question posed on mre mag there reply dated 25th jan ,aparently we dont look up at locomotives [the 1''1 scale] only down.Was not impressed neither were a lot of club members .There A2 orders put on hold to see the quality .

[S.A.C Martin]

Hallo .cant be stunning if you have to buy a Hornby tender to put it right,the A1 trust decided early on to build a NEW locomotive with all new parts .health an saftey ,modern materials and modern methords of construction ,so although it looks like an A1 technically its a development of the class.the tender used on the A1 model the chassis aint that far removed from the lilliput one,Already bought Hornby tenders for my A4s 9bachman ones the other 9 are Hornby.check out bachmans reply to the question posed on mre mag there reply dated 25th jan ,aparently we dont look up at locomotives [the 1''1 scale] only down.Was not impressed neither were a lot of club members .There A2 orders put on hold to see the quality .

 

Get you!

 

I suppose it would make no difference if I pointed out the A1 Trust signed off on both this model and the Brunswick green model, accepting the limitations of the Bachmann model?

 

The thing you haven't grasped is that for the Cartazzi wheel, it's diecast metal - a whole new mould would have to be made. You can't modify the existing one as it would prevent making the other A1s...!

 

The tender is the same deal. Sometimes things are prohibitively expensive - I bet nobody thought the Tornado model was going to be this popular when it was first announced - its exceeded expectations and more! Which in my book is a very good thing indeed.

 

From MRE MAG - here's what Dennis Lovett actually said:

 

The tender chassis used on the recently released 'Tornado' model (32-550A) is indeed the same that was used on all previous A1 Class releases. The tender top has been retooled to provide the bespoke tender fitted to the new build locomotive which has a different coal / water ratio to the production locomotives built by the LNER/BR (ordered and designed under the LNER Chief Mechanical Engineer A. H. Peppercorn) but delivered in the first two years of nationalisation.

 

The tender chassis has always had oil filler axleboxes (as per the original locomotives) and on the earlier release were picked out in yellow paint to resemble the roller bearings. To have produced a one off tender chassis would have added considerably to the cost of this model and would have been hardly visible. The more important tender top (again only visible if your are standing on a footbridge) was more justifiable as, looking down on model locomotives is something most of us do a lot and was obviously much more important! The water scoop is not fitted to the new build locomotive (as we no longer have water troughs on the national network) and can be removed by those who wish to do so.

 

Dennis Lovett - Public Relations Manager, Bachmann Europe Plc

 

He's not wrong by any stretch of the imagination - are you seriously telling me that you cannot accept the manufacturing limitations here when - and lets be fair to Bachmann - they have produced Great Central and Great Eastern A1 models previously - both roller bearing locomotives, but using this single tool?

 

Besides, Tornado's roller bearing axleboxes are not the same. If you look in my gallery at the Tornado in grey pics, you'll see some differences in size and overall look of the axle box.

 

In 4mm scale I'm rather perturbed, given this was common knowledge for a very long time before the model was made, that you choose to have a moan now!

[Horsetan]

You wouldn't be angling for a job in Bachmann's PR Dept now, would you, Simon?

[S.A.C Martin]

You wouldn't be angling for a job in Bachmann's PR Dept now, would you, Simon?

 

...maybe...! B)

[chamossaire]

the thing i havent grasped is that it is diecast metal ??it isint that diffcult to put some thought into the axle box design so that it can be changed plain chassis seperate axle boxes as per kit locos the box is only cosmetic,and my other gripe the tender brakes dont line up with the wheels .hornbys does so it cant be that hard or that much more exspensive ,i am an engineer so i can tell plastic from metal,and have worked with toolmakers for a long time ,the manufatuer will produce innacurate stuff as long as you are prepared to buy it.I beleive 2 other locos on the lner had roller bearing tenders as an experimenti think they were hoffman and timken ,