Bachmann Tornado

[Dan Hill]

Just looked in Model Rail and as well as a model review also has an advert for TMC has the Bachmann model but comes fitted with brass nameplates,rear coal lamps,crew cab tarpaulin,A1 Trust headboard and parts pack.

[Chameleon]

Gave my Tornado a test run tonight. It seems very underpowered, we have a small rake of test coaches which are pretty stiff runners so provide a reasonable load to test a loco with. It just span its wheels on 6 of them I tried taking the rear spring out of the truck, this improved things marginally but it's still a pretty poor performer. Any other suggestions as to how I can improve its haulage capability?

Also, anyone else had any problems with wobbly tender wheels? It's not bad enough to derail it but when ~I spin them, they are all over the place!

[S.A.C Martin]

Gave my Tornado a test run tonight. It seems very underpowered, we have a small rake of test coaches which are pretty stiff runners so provide a reasonable load to test a loco with. It just span its wheels on 6 of them I tried taking the rear spring out of the truck, this improved things marginally but it's still a pretty poor performer. Any other suggestions as to how I can improve its haulage capability?

Also, anyone else had any problems with wobbly tender wheels? It's not bad enough to derail it but when ~I spin them, they are all over the place!

 

I must have got the best of the bunch then - mine's been a sterling performer the last few weeks, no hassles with performance at all. Normal mods as on the other Bachmann A1s would be my suggestion - adding some weight above the driving wheels with some liquid lead might be a good start. Not sure on the tender mind.

[davidw]

Gave my Tornado a test run tonight. It seems very underpowered, we have a small rake of test coaches which are pretty stiff runners so provide a reasonable load to test a loco with. It just span its wheels on 6 of them I tried taking the rear spring out of the truck, this improved things marginally but it's still a pretty poor performer. Any other suggestions as to how I can improve its haulage capability?

Also, anyone else had any problems with wobbly tender wheels? It's not bad enough to derail it but when ~I spin them, they are all over the place!

If you've only just had the A1 then it will need agood couple of hours before it begins to grip. There are some other mods you can try but start with a protracted running in period first. My 7 A1's were all light footed to begin with ( as are much of Bachmanns loco's ) now they's shift 10 -12 coach loads with ease.

 

Good luck

[stagbeetle]

In the last couple of months I have been in possession of two different Tornado models.

 

The first one had a flexible plate between the back of the cab and the tender (is it called a cab fall plate? please forgive my ignorance). This model was purchased in time for Christmas.

 

The second one, aquired more recently has a fixed one.

 

My questions are:

 

Which one do you have?

 

and

 

Why is there a difference?

 

There may be other differences which I have not noticed yet.

 

SB.

[Chameleon]

There DO seem to be some differences, mine has the fixed (at a rather acute angle) one. There is slightly iffy painting on the front ponytruck wheels, and the tender wheels are very wobbly, will have to get the back to back gauge onto them. Also mine has some severe traction problems whereas other will pull just about anything you put behind it. I am still running it in though so time will see...

[Mod2]

The above two posts have been merged into an existing (and perfectly adequate) topic, which may even contain the answers sought.

 

Cheers.

[stagbeetle]

Mod2

 

I did try a search before posting, but without success and considered my question to be more specific than the general discussion about Tornado.

 

Perhaps I should have chosen a different title.

 

I will go through the seven pages to check that I have not missed anything.

 

SB.

[Chameleon]

Just a thought, what is available as a support coach? Either the current loan coach or the one they bought for future use? Who would make the correct ones?

[mkwolf1877]

Don't suppose anyone knows anywhere these are in stock?

 

Many Thanks,

 

Mark

[Bert1925]

Bachmann Tornado – A Real Disappointment!

 

 

After a recent visit to the wonderful NRM in York and seeing the Tornado for real, I decided that I had to have a model for my cabinet. I have a layout in my spare room, but some loco’s just need to be looked at. So at the first opportunity I managed to purchase a fine Bachmann Tornado from my local model shop. I have many Bachman models and was expecting good things from them.

 

 

I removed it carefully from the packaging and my first thought was ‘wow’! Particularly the valve gear, which in die-cast, looks so real. As I looked over the model in its entirety, I notice one or two things which really didn’t look right. So I started looking through the photo’s I took of Tornado for some comparison. The first thing that struck me is that the wash-out on the real engine are sunken into the firebox and the Bachmann model has them protruding, which I must say looks terrible. This also highlights the fact that the firebox is actually completely wrong!

 

 

Then of course I started looking for other things that aren’t right. Which really isn’t good when I had just spent a considerable amount of money on what I thought was to be a good copy of the wonderful Tornado. And as I looked into it more, I became very upset that I had spent so much, on something that really is quite poor.

 

 

The roof detail has no rivets at all, when the real Tornado has many.

 

 

The Bachmann model has two sandbox’s on the footplate, where the real Tornado has only one.

 

 

The Bachmann model shows the centre cylinder flush with the front of the footplate, when the real Tornado has a cylinder that is part vertical and part flush.

 

 

The rear of the Bachmann model, under the cab looks just terrible. It all looks too wide and the angles are too sharp and with sloppy pony wheel, it all seems cheap (which it is not).

 

 

Other things could be mentioned, lining etc, but I do not want to go on for too long. It may seem that I am nitpicking, but when I spend so much of my pension on a model, that I am led to believe is a copy of the real thing, I am left very, very disappointed. Simple things have been neglected. If I could take my Tornado back to the shop, I would, but it has been opened and run and reading your magazine, it is fit for purpose. I do feel hard done-by though and will ask to see models out of the box in future, before parting with my money. Bachmann Tornado – A Real Disappointment!

 

 

[Pacific Power]

What is more there is no water in the boiler or fire in the firebox either!

[Dan Hamblin]

The first thing that struck me is that the wash-out on the real engine are sunken into the firebox and the Bachmann model has them protruding, which I must say looks terrible. This also highlights the fact that the firebox is actually completely wrong!

Bear in mind the real boiler is effectively a new design based on the Peppercorn original. Certain changes have been made for it to fit within the loading gauge and the details you mention are likely to be standard fittings on boilers constructed at Meiningen works in the former East Germany.

 

The Bachmann model is not brand new, it was first produced over five years ago and standards are continually improving. There are two noticeable changes to the standard Bachmann model to make it look like the modern Tornado - the special tender body and the additional chime whistle located behind the fireman's side smoke deflector. To make a totally new body and tender chassis would cost a considerable amount of money when there is a standard product available that will please many.

 

 

The rear of the Bachmann model, under the cab looks just terrible. It all looks too wide and the angles are too sharp and with sloppy pony wheel, it all seems cheap (which it is not).

This is a deliberate design detail to permit the model to traverse 2nd radius set track curves whilst still having a flanged cartazzi truck wheelset. On the equivelent Hornby LNER pacific chassis the wheelset is flangeless but the cartazzi frames are at the prototypical width. They are just different solutions to the same problem.

 

To be fair to Bachmann, this is very much a locomotive designed to be run on a layout.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[St. Simon]

Bachmann Tornado – A Real Disappointment!

 

 

After a recent visit to the wonderful NRM in York and seeing the Tornado for real, I decided that I had to have a model for my cabinet. I have a layout in my spare room, but some loco’s just need to be looked at. So at the first opportunity I managed to purchase a fine Bachmann Tornado from my local model shop. I have many Bachman models and was expecting good things from them.

 

 

I removed it carefully from the packaging and my first thought was ‘wow’! Particularly the valve gear, which in die-cast, looks so real. As I looked over the model in its entirety, I notice one or two things which really didn’t look right. So I started looking through the photo’s I took of Tornado for some comparison. The first thing that struck me is that the wash-out on the real engine are sunken into the firebox and the Bachmann model has them protruding, which I must say looks terrible. This also highlights the fact that the firebox is actually completely wrong!

 

 

Then of course I started looking for other things that aren’t right. Which really isn’t good when I had just spent a considerable amount of money on what I thought was to be a good copy of the wonderful Tornado. And as I looked into it more, I became very upset that I had spent so much, on something that really is quite poor.

 

 

The roof detail has no rivets at all, when the real Tornado has many.

 

 

The Bachmann model has two sandbox’s on the footplate, where the real Tornado has only one.

 

 

The Bachmann model shows the centre cylinder flush with the front of the footplate, when the real Tornado has a cylinder that is part vertical and part flush.

 

 

The rear of the Bachmann model, under the cab looks just terrible. It all looks too wide and the angles are too sharp and with sloppy pony wheel, it all seems cheap (which it is not).

 

 

Other things could be mentioned, lining etc, but I do not want to go on for too long. It may seem that I am nitpicking, but when I spend so much of my pension on a model, that I am led to believe is a copy of the real thing, I am left very, very disappointed. Simple things have been neglected. If I could take my Tornado back to the shop, I would, but it has been opened and run and reading your magazine, it is fit for purpose. I do feel hard done-by though and will ask to see models out of the box in future, before parting with my money. Bachmann Tornado – A Real Disappointment!

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Please bear in mind tha a manufacturer can only detail a locomotive so far before the price gets too high. No model is ever a perfect minuature replica of a locomotive, if it was the price would be too high and nobody would buy it

 

Many of the things you have pointed out are small things that (in my opinion) don't detract from an otherwise fine model. Plus most people wouldn't even notice!

 

Simon

[bluex5]

Bachmann Tornado – A Real Disappointment!

 

 

After a recent visit to the wonderful NRM in York and seeing the Tornado for real, I decided that I had to have a model for my cabinet. I have a layout in my spare room, but some loco’s just need to be looked at. So at the first opportunity I managed to purchase a fine Bachmann Tornado from my local model shop. I have many Bachman models and was expecting good things from them.

 

 

I removed it carefully from the packaging and my first thought was ‘wow’! Particularly the valve gear, which in die-cast, looks so real. As I looked over the model in its entirety, I notice one or two things which really didn’t look right. So I started looking through the photo’s I took of Tornado for some comparison. The first thing that struck me is that the wash-out on the real engine are sunken into the firebox and the Bachmann model has them protruding, which I must say looks terrible. This also highlights the fact that the firebox is actually completely wrong!

 

 

Then of course I started looking for other things that aren’t right. Which really isn’t good when I had just spent a considerable amount of money on what I thought was to be a good copy of the wonderful Tornado. And as I looked into it more, I became very upset that I had spent so much, on something that really is quite poor.

 

 

The roof detail has no rivets at all, when the real Tornado has many.

 

 

The Bachmann model has two sandbox’s on the footplate, where the real Tornado has only one.

 

 

The Bachmann model shows the centre cylinder flush with the front of the footplate, when the real Tornado has a cylinder that is part vertical and part flush.

 

 

The rear of the Bachmann model, under the cab looks just terrible. It all looks too wide and the angles are too sharp and with sloppy pony wheel, it all seems cheap (which it is not).

 

 

Other things could be mentioned, lining etc, but I do not want to go on for too long. It may seem that I am nitpicking, but when I spend so much of my pension on a model, that I am led to believe is a copy of the real thing, I am left very, very disappointed. Simple things have been neglected. If I could take my Tornado back to the shop, I would, but it has been opened and run and reading your magazine, it is fit for purpose. I do feel hard done-by though and will ask to see models out of the box in future, before parting with my money. Bachmann Tornado – A Real Disappointment!

 

As per previous quotes - there are compromises between Bachmann's tooling (based around the original Peppercorn / BR build) and the spec of Tornado (Network Rail loading gauge / Menningen built boiler etc). To be fair they've done a good job of sorting the obvious changes (tender / whistle), but it's not realistic to retool the boiler and smokebox to reflect every change made for "new build". Also you're wrong about the Cartazzi arrangement, it's as good a solution to the problem as I've seen in OO, and looks close enough to a "real" A1 arrangement in my eyes, as well as being able to navigate less than prototypical curves. TL:DR - even skilled kit builders would struggle to get something to look as good as the Bachmann model.

[pinza]

As someone who has seen quite a lot of time alongside the real thing whilst working on the NRM Deltic KOYLI I have to disagree about it being inaccurate and for the money it is a very good "copy" of the real thing. Are there compromises because it is a OO model, of course, but in my eyes and those on the support crew of the real A1, it really does capture the brooding power of this loco. If you want a better "copy", why not have a word with the loveless company, they will build you one in O gauge for around £2 grand!

[aguynamedsid]

As someone who has seen quite a lot of time alongside the real thing whilst working on the NRM Deltic KOYLI I have to disagree about it being inaccurate and for the money it is a very good "copy" of the real thing. Are there compromises because it is a OO model, of course, but in my eyes and those on the support crew of the real A1, it really does capture the brooding power of this loco. If you want a better "copy", why not have a word with the loveless company, they will build you one in O gauge for around £2 grand!

 

I'm Sorry but you are wrong, the model is in fact inaccurate, even taking into account obvious comprimises that have to be made for 00. The issue is not whether the model is a fair representation, which of course it is. The issue raised in Berts email was of accuracy. I can't believe that the other manufacturer would have got away with releasing a loco under the pretence of being an accurate model with so many detail errors and still ask top dollar for it. If that is what the market wants so be it, but let's not pretend that this is an accurate model but a caricature.

[RedgateModels]

Hey!

 

 

I tried to put water in the boiler of my Tornado last night and light a fire in the firebox, the mess was unbelieveable I later discovered that the manufacturer had seen fit to fit a non-authentic electric motor where the fire should be - incredible

 

 

Seriously, lets have a bit of calm chaps, it's a toy train, if you like it buy it, if you don't, well, don't. Santa brought a tear to my eye last Christmas when he surprised me with one - best surprise for a long time. Can't see when it will get a run, it won't fit on my home layout with all those Rad 1 curves and it can hardly appear on a 1958 colliery layout now can it

 

 

[Marty Mc]

Hi

 

Well said!

 

Seriously, lets have a bit of calm chaps, it's a toy train, if you like it buy it, if you don't, well, don't. Santa brought a tear to my eye last Christmas when he surprised me with one - best surprise for a long time. Can't see when it will get a run, it won't fit on my home layout with all those Rad 1 curves and it can hardly appear on a 1958 colliery layout now can it

 

I have 2 lov em, Bachmann have done a great job! Cant be bothered looking for the faults pointed out, because I dont care.

 

m

[Pacific Power]

Bachmann Tornado – A Real Disappointment!

 

 

After a recent visit to the wonderful NRM in York and seeing the Tornado for real, I decided that I had to have a model for my cabinet. I have a layout in my spare room, but some loco’s just need to be looked at. So at the first opportunity I managed to purchase a fine Bachmann Tornado from my local model shop. I have many Bachman models and was expecting good things from them.

 

 

I removed it carefully from the packaging and my first thought was ‘wow’! Particularly the valve gear, which in die-cast, looks so real. As I looked over the model in its entirety, I notice one or two things which really didn’t look right. So I started looking through the photo’s I took of Tornado for some comparison. The first thing that struck me is that the wash-out on the real engine are sunken into the firebox and the Bachmann model has them protruding, which I must say looks terrible. This also highlights the fact that the firebox is actually completely wrong!

 

 

Then of course I started looking for other things that aren’t right. Which really isn’t good when I had just spent a considerable amount of money on what I thought was to be a good copy of the wonderful Tornado. And as I looked into it more, I became very upset that I had spent so much, on something that really is quite poor.

 

 

The roof detail has no rivets at all, when the real Tornado has many.

 

 

The Bachmann model has two sandbox’s on the footplate, where the real Tornado has only one.

 

 

The Bachmann model shows the centre cylinder flush with the front of the footplate, when the real Tornado has a cylinder that is part vertical and part flush.

 

 

The rear of the Bachmann model, under the cab looks just terrible. It all looks too wide and the angles are too sharp and with sloppy pony wheel, it all seems cheap (which it is not).

 

 

Other things could be mentioned, lining etc, but I do not want to go on for too long. It may seem that I am nitpicking, but when I spend so much of my pension on a model, that I am led to believe is a copy of the real thing, I am left very, very disappointed. Simple things have been neglected. If I could take my Tornado back to the shop, I would, but it has been opened and run and reading your magazine, it is fit for purpose. I do feel hard done-by though and will ask to see models out of the box in future, before parting with my money. Bachmann Tornado – A Real Disappointment!

 

 

With regard to several items on this post (including the cylinder covers and Sandbox) may I suggest that this member saw "Tornado" at the NRM while undergoing maintenance, and therefore with some items stripped out or out of place, earlier this year which has mis-lead him as to certain features. If he cares to look at the many photographs on the internet and those in the latest Bachmann Collectors Club magazine he may well find that he is mistaken in some of his comments and may therefore consider an apology for some of his comments on this thread.

[Bert1925]

Thank you to the gentleman answering my comments, but I am very intrigued to understand where you have found your information. I have purchased a copy of ‘Tornado’ from WH Smith, which is endorsed by ‘The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust’. I trust you also have this publication, being an enthusiast. So, as proof of my findings, please refer to pages 76-77 and view the large photograph and the ‘single’ lubricator, between the sandbox fillers, not two as Bachmann have done. This is apparent on many other images.

 

Please also see page 93, which clearly shows the centre cylinder as I described it and not flush, as the Bachmann model portrays.

 

Unless the Tornado photographed in the Tornado publication was constantly undergoing maintenance, I think that it is possibly you sir, who should consider the apology.

 

 

[S.A.C Martin]

Thank you to the gentleman answering my comments, but I am very intrigued to understand where you have found your information. I have purchased a copy of ‘Tornado’ from WH Smith, which is endorsed by ‘The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust’. I trust you also have this publication, being an enthusiast. So, as proof of my findings, please refer to pages 76-77 and view the large photograph and the ‘single’ lubricator, between the sandbox fillers, not two as Bachmann have done. This is apparent on many other images.

 

Please also see page 93, which clearly shows the centre cylinder as I described it and not flush, as the Bachmann model portrays.

 

Unless the Tornado photographed in the Tornado publication was constantly undergoing maintenance, I think that it is possibly you sir, who should consider the apology.

 

As one of the many convenators to Tornado, I find this whole debate about details on the model to be bearing on the absolutely ridiculous.

 

If we really are going to be pedantic, the Bachmann model is the wrong height in any event - scaled down the Tornado model is 13ft 2in above the rails when it should be 13ft. The roof profile is incorrect as are the placings of the safety valves, the chimney is too tall, as is the banjo dome, and the list goes on...

 

When this was first announced, Bachmann stated that there would be discrepancies as the real locomotive does have a lot of detail differences to the originals.

This was a compromise on the fact that before Tornado's completion, no one was really sure of whether or not she'd be as popular as she has proved to be.

 

In order to retool the components of the model you are suggesting, Bachmann would have almost had to tool up an entirely new set of A1 moulds. The only things that would have been able to have been reused, in all likelihood, for a 100% accurate Tornado model would be the deflectors, driving wheels, valve gear, cylinders and sprung buffers. Bear in mind that means everything else requires a new tooling - chassis (as the cartazzi would need new sides), boiler (mountings different, chimney too tall), cab (roof profile wrong), tender frames (no roller bearings), running plate (as mentioned, the centre cylinder cover is slightly different on Tornado), and a new tender top (which Bachmann have made rather beautifully). Considering all of that, you effectively have an entirely new model tooled up, and understandably Bachmann do not want to spend the money on a first release of Tornado that could or could not have sold well, dependent on how the engine was received to the general public (thankfully, rather wonderfully!).

 

I don't think it's fair to openly berate a manufacturer for wanting to give us a decent model of a locomotive many of us have supported with our own time and money over the years. If the covenators and Trust members that run Tornado are happy with it, I feel you really should be yourself!

 

The model has had its livery applied beautifully and had certain small pieces like the whistle tooled up to make the standard Bachmann model closer to being a depiction of Tornado. It does that job tremendously - here's a pic of my much loved model:

 

 

And here's Tornado:

 

 

Okay, so the front end doesn't have all the pipes - but again, that would mean tooling up an entirely new running plate! So really, is all of this vitriol as to the accuracy of the model really needed?

 

Why can't we be grateful that Bachmann have made the model and that a certain proportion of the money from the sale of each model goes to the upkeep of an engine we all seem to feel rather passionately about?

 

I will stick my neck out and say - thank you Bachmann - you did a sterling job with minor modifications of making a model of my favourite locomotive. Thank You.

 

EDIT: PS, if you could do one in its original grey, I'd be most grateful. Can't afford the TMC one, you see - most of my money goes to the real thing after all!

[Garry D100]

EDIT: PS, if you could do one in its original grey, I'd be most grateful. Can't afford the TMC one, you see - most of my money goes to the real thing after all!

They have, its the new Bachmann collectors club model , got my collectors mag last week.

According to their website there are only about 150 left so if you are a member get your order in quick :-)

Just binned my order form as not interested but I think it is £129.95

[S.A.C Martin]

They have, its the new Bachmann collectors club model , got my collectors mag last week.

According to their website there are only about 150 left so if you are a member get your order in quick :-)

 

 

I'd better sign up then!!!

 

EDIT: Thanks Garry for the heads up! :icon_thumbsup2:

[Garry D100]

 

I'd better sign up then!!!

 

EDIT: Thanks Garry for the heads up!

 

No problem.

Heres the page with details http://www.Bachmann-...ub.com/news.htm